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  1. Member Yanta's Avatar
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    I've been doing a lot of reading on 4K playback, much of it conflicting, and some of it quite old (eg 2015).
    I'm trying to get my head around 4K HDR playback on a PC connected to a 4K HDR 3D TV.

    Apologies for this being a long post. Please don't let that scare you away

    The hardware
    LG 55" 3D 4K HDR TV 55UH950T.
    Intel 8600K CPU @ 4ghz on an MSI Z370 SLI Plus motherboard with 16GB 3200mhz DDR4 memory.
    ASUS GTX 1070 ROG Strix graphics card with 8G RAM
    Samsung 970 Evo 250GB Boot drive running Windows 10 RS3 1709
    2TB Seagate NAS Drive for storage (Not really needed as all content is stored on a Win 2012 R2 server with 100 TB of storage).
    Corsair HX 850i PSu
    Corsair H100i V2 cooler

    The PC runs a HDMI 2.0 cable (Supposedly rated for 4K content) from PC to the TV. It also has an Optical cable for audio.

    The Optical cable runs to a Sony 3D home entertainment system (Receiver, and 3D player). It's 1080p. I have held onto it because it does not detect the Cinavia malware. It also plays my 3D discs - which I can't get working from the PC.

    For playback I use two programs; PotPlayer and Kodi. I do not use MadVR. I also do not install generic codec packs. I have LAV filters installed because they are used by other programs such as AVStoDVD etc.

    Current issues
    1. Every couple of boots, the PC won't detect audio and I have to keep switching between the Samsung TV and the Realtek audio. Neither one works 100% of the time
    2. With the Optical for Audio, from what I've read, I am missing out on multiple audio formats, such as DTS HD/MA and TrueHD
    3. I can't play 3D ISOs or discs from the PC, with either Kodi or PotPlayer. The LG TV's 3D playback is only average, so when I use OU or SBS versions of a 3D movie I get a lot of ghosting and poor quality. That's if I can even get it to work at all. I have the 3D MVC codec installed for PotPlayer.
    4. I've got a sick feeling my 4K content is not playing back at 4K... The quality between a 1080p and 2160p media file seems pretty much the same to me. Though when I looked at 4K vs FHD TVs in the store, the difference was immediately noticeable.

    I'd like to find out what settings should be used on PotPlayer, Windows, Kodi etc.. that I need to use to make all of this work reliably.

    I read some posts about settings in PotPlayer, and played a TrueHD movie. The recommended settings actually killed all audio until I set it back to disabled.
    (https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/375411-How-to-setup-Daum-PotPlayer-to-output-TrueHD-and-DTS-HD)

    The goals
    One Audio set up that plays all formats without me having to change sound playback defaults every few boots, and allows for as many formats as possible.
    3D playback from ISO or disc from the PC
    4K Playback from MKV files and 4K Discs from PC.

    Hardware replacement is unlikely given the costs: For TV and Receiver speaker setups. These are absurdly expensive where I live.

    Any guidance and pointers to relevant information is greatly appreciated.
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  2. Member
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    Just a suggestion that may make things much easier: Use a 4K blu ray player. Most will stream MKV from the network as well. No worries about codecs, video card drivers, etc etc.
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  3. Member Yanta's Avatar
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    Thanks for getting back to me.

    Sounds simple.. If only

    I assume the Blu-ray player has to be 4K capable, or at least support 4K Passthrough? Mine is 1080p 3D, which as I said, I'm hanging on to because it doesn't detect Cinavia. Also, it powers the speakers, as there is no separate receiver.

    My Blu-ray system is not capable of playing content from the network. About the only time I use the bluray is when I want to play a 3D movie that's on it's original disk.

    4K 3D bluray players are as rare as hens teeth. I'd venture a guess that such a player that doesn't detect cinavia doesn't exist. And getting an AIO H/E system is also an extremely unlikely find, at least here in Australia. A semi-decent receiver, a 4K Blu-ray ( I won't find 3D now), and a speaker set up is going to set me back around $2000 AUD at normal retail prices.

    So, I think I'm back to the original scenario - playing 4K and 3D content from my server via a PC connected to the TV with support for TrueHD, DTSHD-MA using PotPlayer and/or Kodi.
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    I only know about a couple of solutions for 3d Blu-ray and 4K: a Kodi fork, Kodi MVC Windows, and PowerDVD Ultra. A download link and setup information for Kodi MVC Windows is at https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=266316 PowerDVD Ultra is Cinavia compliant so that is probably not something that interests you. The fact that your motherboard has HDMI 1.4 limits you with respect to 4K. HDMI 1.4 does not support HDR and does not support refresh rates over 30Hz. An HDMI 2.0 connection on the GTX 1070 is better for 4K but I don't know if it is capable of providing HDR for video (as opposed to HDR for gaming) unless someone is using MadVR.

    I have not heard of any Windows software which can decode TrueHD or DTSHD-MA. As far as I know, bitstreaming these to a receiver and sound system via HDMI is your only option.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 6th Aug 2018 at 14:35. Reason: forgot about madVR
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  5. Member Yanta's Avatar
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    I guess if Potplayer can't handle 3D they should probably stop stating that it can. Anyway, I was going to buy WinDVD Pro as it's much lighter on resources, has less bloatware and is cheaper than PowerDVD. But they don't seem too interested in making sales when a potential customer asks technical questions. My brother uses it for his 3D and has no issues.

    Re MadVR: I've read posts here that say having MAdVR installed actually causes problems. IIRC, the post I linked to might have mentioned something about that. But if you think it is worth using, I am willing to try anything at this point. (Since I've been trying to get this to work off an on for over a year now).

    ASUS documentation says my card is HDMI 2 but doesn't say whether it's 2.0a or 2.0b.

    The Intel website says my CPU can run (off the the iGPU), 4k @ 60hz @ 4096x2304p, It mentions nothing about HDMI 1.4 (https://ark.intel.com/products/126685/Intel-Core-i5-8600K-Processor-9M-Cache-up-to-4_30-GHz). Yet another page states something about HDMI 1.4 @ 24hz, which as you said does not support that resolution at that refresh rate. So that has left me completely confused (https://www.intel.com.au/content/www/au/en/products/processors/core/i5-processors/i5-8600k.html)

    But why would I even consider using the iGPU if I have a discrete card? Does it have something to do with SGX? Does the GTX 1070 support SGX? The ASUS website is silent on that aspect.

    For the motherboard, it mentions nothing about the version of HDMI in the manual or on the specifications on the website. So, I gather than that the iGPU doesn't determine the capabilities, the motherboard does?

    As you can see, I don't have a good understanding on this, which is why I'm here. To learn from the experts.

    It seems incredible to me, but not unbelievable, that the only solution would be to spend potentially thousands more on a new home entertainment system just to enjoy 4K. This set up is in my bedroom. I don't have a lot of room. I want to keep the existing 3D Blu-ray player for the 2 reasons stated - 3D and No Cinavia.

    Particularly when both Potplayer and Kodi tout that they can handle 4K.

    Originally, one aspect of my OP was "What settings" do I need for PotPlayer/Kodi, and what changes connectivity wise do I need to make to get this to work. I'd still like to pursue that avenue of investigation, please.

    If that means simply bitstreaming it then I can try that. Not sure what settings I would use for that in either program. PotPlayer's support is pretty poor, but Kodi's community forum is quite good.

    I guess you're saying I'd have to go the expensive route because if I plug HDMI into my Sony system I can only get 1080p because that's all it is capable of. It doesn't support 4K (I don't think 4K was even mainstream back then).

    I shall keep researching.

    EDIT: Just had a thought. Can I do this without buying a blu-ray player. I keep my existing player because it has 3D, which is only 1080p So all I need to buy is the speakers and receiver. I found this slimline receiver, which is cheap compared to most of the units around here - https://www.jbhifi.com.au/pioneer/pioneer-vsx-s520-slim-network-av-receiver/635728/
    Last edited by Yanta; 7th Aug 2018 at 06:39. Reason: Receiver option without blu-ray player
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    Originally Posted by Yanta View Post
    I guess if Potplayer can't handle 3D they should probably stop stating that it can.
    I think Potplayer does better with SBS 3D and Top-Bottom 3D. MVC 3D (used by Blu-ray) requires both MadVR and version of LAV filters with MVC drivers.

    Originally Posted by Yanta View Post
    Anyway, I was going to buy WinDVD Pro as it's much lighter on resources, has less bloatware and is cheaper than PowerDVD. But they don't seem too interested in making sales when a potential customer asks technical questions. My brother uses it for his 3D and has no issues.
    I forgot about WinDV.

    Originally Posted by Yanta View Post
    Re MadVR: I've read posts here that say having MAdVR installed actually causes problems. IIRC, the post I linked to might have mentioned something about that. But if you think it is worth using, I am willing to try anything at this point. (Since I've been trying to get this to work off an on for over a year now).
    I don't use MadVR because I don't have a discrete video card. However, it seems like it may be the only way to get some of the things that you want using a freeware player.

    Originally Posted by Yanta View Post
    ASUS documentation says my card is HDMI 2 but doesn't say whether it's 2.0a or 2.0b.
    Originally Posted by Yanta View Post
    The Intel website says my CPU can run (off the the iGPU), 4k @ 60hz @ 4096x2304p, It mentions nothing about HDMI 1.4 (https://ark.intel.com/products/126685/Intel-Core-i5-8600K-Processor-9M-Cache-up-to-4_30-GHz). Yet another page states something about HDMI 1.4 @ 24hz, which as you said does not support that resolution at that refresh rate. So that has left me completely confused (https://www.intel.com.au/content/www/au/en/products/processors/core/i5-processors/i5-8600k.html)
    First, most UHD video is 3840 x 2160 resolution. There are other 4K resolutions but they are less common.

    For Coffee Lake processors in a desktop configuration, 3840x2160p @ 60Hz is only possible for the iGPU DisplayPort 1.2 path. Unfortunately, the native HDMI path supplied by Coffee Lake is HDMI 1.4, which supports 3840x2160p at only up to 30Hz. Intel has done a couple of unusual things with its iGPU with the latest Windows 10 version and iGPU drivers. It added HDCP 2.2 to both HDMI 1.4 and DisplayPort 1.2 for Coffee Lake, which isn't usually supplied by either HDMI 1.4 or HDMI 1.2 and added HDR to its DisplayPort 1.2 path. Normally DisplayPort 1.4 is needed for HDR.

    Originally Posted by Yanta View Post
    But why would I even consider using the iGPU if I have a discrete card? Does it have something to do with SGX? Does the GTX 1070 support SGX? The ASUS website is silent on that aspect.
    SGX and the iGPU are required if one is playing a UHD Blu-ray with intact copy protection using PowerDVD Ultra, but there is another reason for using the iGPU. Intel added the ability to supply HDR (high dynamic range) to the Coffee Lake DisplayPort 1.2 path, assuming one is using the latest Windows 10 update, the latest iGPU drivers and the Intel MEI Driver. See: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/graphics/HDR_Intel_Graphics_...WhitePaper.pdf

    Originally Posted by Yanta View Post
    For the motherboard, it mentions nothing about the version of HDMI in the manual or on the specifications on the website. So, I gather than that the iGPU doesn't determine the capabilities, the motherboard does?
    In order to get HDMI 2.0a from Coffee Lake's iGPU, the motherboard manufacturer must add an LSPCON (level-shifter protocol-converter) to one of the two DislplayPort 1.2 paths supplied by the iGPU. When HDMI is supplied natively by the iGPU, it is HDMI 1.4. Relatively few motherboards contain an LSPCON and none of them were made by MSI. There is a good reference here: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=13271422&postcount=108 I think there are a couple of motherboards discussed later in the same thread which are not on that list yet, but neither is from MSI.

    Originally Posted by Yanta View Post
    As you can see, I don't have a good understanding on this, which is why I'm here. To learn from the experts.

    It seems incredible to me, but not unbelievable, that the only solution would be to spend potentially thousands more on a new home entertainment system just to enjoy 4K. This set up is in my bedroom. I don't have a lot of room. I want to keep the existing 3D Blu-ray player for the 2 reasons stated - 3D and No Cinavia.

    Particularly when both Potplayer and Kodi tout that they can handle 4K.

    Originally, one aspect of my OP was "What settings" do I need for PotPlayer/Kodi, and what changes connectivity wise do I need to make to get this to work. I'd still like to pursue that avenue of investigation, please.

    If that means simply bitstreaming it then I can try that. Not sure what settings I would use for that in either program. PotPlayer's support is pretty poor, but Kodi's community forum is quite good.

    I guess you're saying I'd have to go the expensive route because if I plug HDMI into my Sony system I can only get 1080p because that's all it is capable of. It doesn't support 4K (I don't think 4K was even mainstream back then).

    I shall keep researching.

    EDIT: Just had a thought. Can I do this without buying a blu-ray player. I keep my existing player because it has 3D, which is only 1080p So all I need to buy is the speakers and receiver. I found this slimline receiver, which is cheap compared to most of the units around here - https://www.jbhifi.com.au/pioneer/pioneer-vsx-s520-slim-network-av-receiver/635728/
    I don't have a lot of practical experience yet. Currently I'm merely making plans to build a new PC with the ability to play commercial UHD Blu-ray discs, which is something that only PowerDVD Ultra supports at this point. I've been at that for over a year because no MATX motherboards with HDMI 2.0 exist. I've decided that my only chance to get what I want is to wait for Ice Lake or Cannon Lake or whatever processor Intel decides to release first with native HDMI 2.0 and HDR support.

    UHD video is still relatively new and it will take time to resolve current technical issues on the PC side.
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  7. Member Yanta's Avatar
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    Wow! This should be simple. 4K's been around since 2014, right? What a complete mess!

    Of course, My TV does not have a display port connection.

    So, I guess I'm stuck with ripping my discs to MKV and playing them back that way. Which still leaves the audio issues I originally mentioned. Which, If I understand you correctly, means running HDMI 2.0 from the graphics card to a [new] receiver that supports 4k passthrough, with MadVR installed. (I had already installed the MVC drivers required by PotPlayer, but if I'm going to use WinDVD for 3D that's no longer and issue)

    I wish it were possible to use one program to do everything... Nothing like making it near impossible to use the new technologies, and extremely expensive having to repeatedly upgrade hardware to make things work. What a nightmare. Maybe when 16K video becomes mainstream 4K will be all sorted out </sarcasm>

    I'd prefer to run everything off the discrete card... Saves having to run multiple cables and having to switch between the two. And from the sounds of it, no discrete card currently supports SGX, HDR etc.
    Last edited by Yanta; 7th Aug 2018 at 20:47.
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    Originally Posted by Yanta View Post
    Wow! This should be simple. 4K's been around since 2014, right? What a complete mess!

    Of course, My TV does not have a display port connection.

    So, I guess I'm stuck with ripping my discs to MKV and playing them back that way. Which still leaves the audio issues I originally mentioned. Which, If I understand you correctly, means running HDMI 2.0 from the graphics card to a [new] receiver that supports 4k passthrough, with MadVR installed. (I had already installed the MVC drivers required by PotPlayer, but if I'm going to use WinDVD for 3D that's no longer and issue)

    I wish it were possible to use one program to do everything... Nothing like making it near impossible to use the new technologies, and extremely expensive having to repeatedly upgrade hardware to make things work. What a nightmare. Maybe when 16K video becomes mainstream 4K will be all sorted out </sarcasm>

    I'd prefer to run everything off the discrete card... Saves having to run multiple cables and having to switch between the two. And from the sounds of it, no discrete card currently supports SGX, HDR etc.
    For what it is worth, my 2014 Haswell processor's iGPU can provide SDR 2160p output via HDMI 1.4 or DisplayPort 1.2, but it lacks the ability to supply HDR-10 metadata from either connection and the processor doesn't support SGX.

    When it is well done HDR-10 does enhance the viewing experience for UHD Blu-ray and the video streaming platforms that offer it. SGX is necessary for UHD Blu-ray and that's only because SGX is the only DRM solution currently approved by the Blu-ray Disc association. UHD streaming can have different DRM requirements. For example Netflix 4K allows using either SGX (with a Kaby Lake iGPU or Coffee Lake iGPU) or something else (Playready 3.0?) with select NVIDIA cards having at least 3GB of VRAM. I'm not sure if HDR-10 is supported using a discrete video card for Netflix 4K.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 7th Aug 2018 at 22:55.
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