Mediainfo only reports encoding type or flags. It doesn't tell you what it *actually* is in terms of content
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OK. I did not realise there was another thread. What with the full clip ?
Okay guys, today I seem to have found something that may bring me to the solution. I wonder what you would suggest.
So as I said, it is now clear that Sony Vegas is not the source of problems, as feeding the raw MTS directly to HCEnc results in a bad DVD too. So it is either HCEnc or the Muxing. But! I have proof now with HCEnc it can be done right. I tried to feed the raw MTS to AVStoDVD, and in spite of that it also uses HCEnc to convert the file, the resulting DVD plays fine! The only problem is that the result is Interlaced DVD, and thus, a jagged image. The guitar strings are zigzag. Also, when I import the mts to AVStoDVD, an interesting message pops up, you can see it on the photo attached:
[Attachment 46414 - Click to enlarge]
It seems there is a delay already in the MTS, and maybe this is what causes the problem. But I just don't know how to handle this in my case? I never dealt with this delay so far, but as I mentioned on computer the DVDs I created played fine. It is only problem on the desktop player. This is weird. How can the DVD play fine on the computer, when it seems this delay should have been added??? What do you suggest to do now?
And two other thins that makes me unable to stick to AVStoDVD now, though I wouldn't mind using it:
1. it detects the delay in case I feed the raw file, but in case I import the Sony Vegas project export mp4, it just writes different error notifications about channels and that the DVD will likely to be out of sync. So in this case I have no information about how much delay should be set, nor the software. This is not a good way to go.
2. It detects the source as Interlaced, to it's already bad in my case.
That's why it would be better to try to adpot the process from AVStoDVD to my procedure. Because that way I can keep it progressive at least.
Last edited by Bencuri; 8th Aug 2018 at 14:28.
I may be over-simplifying this but here goes.
Since you did re-encode the audio 256 kbps >> 192 kbps there seems little harm in letting avstodvd do that as suggested. You just need to set the bitrate in the dvd edit section.
Now I was fooled by the mediainfo reports and avstodvd is likewise. But there is a avisynth script lurking in the edit section and I would have thought if you edited out all the lines that talk about field-order, field-splitting etc. you will create a progressive dvd regardless.
One thing you may also wish to revaluate is how you ended up with a wrongly reported source. If this is something you did then it may be possible to correct and programs will then not be 'fooled'
So that indicates an muxing / authoring issue. Because the delay offset is set in the muxer. You might be able to fiddle with the delay in those other authoring programs too , but I think they might have other problems
I don't use avs2dvd but you should be able to fiddle with the settings in the program
You can export an AVI from your vegas project and import it into avs2dvd .
Or since it accepts avs too, so you should be able to frameserve directly using dfs and specify audio in the script or maybe load audio separately
But why the whole symptome is crazy to me is because in spite of that I set no delay, when I do everything on my own, so not with AVStoDVD, the DVD video and audio is in sync on the computer. I have just checked it again to confirm. This is why it is so strange. Can it be the problem that there is a flag in the file that should notify the player about that there should be a delay, but it is not added the way I do it. So what happens is that though some players can sync the stuff properly even this way too, the desktop players is looking for that flag, and since it doesn't find it, it projects the signals out of sync.
By the way, there is also another oddity regarding the delays. These videos I copied from the camera, some of them are in parts. That is: when the recording took long, the camcorder started new files at every 2GB or so. You can just join them afterwards to get the complete recording. I used TSmuxer to do it, and I added these joined files to Vegas. I noticed, that while in the unjoined mts parts the delay is 80 msec, in the joined TS files this delay is not present any more. It is 0. The audio and video is still in sync, but after the joining, that delay is gone. In the Vegas project, there are mixed file types on the timeline: some are mts, some are ts. So there are files with 80 msec delay and with 0 msec. Is it possible that this feature is somehow stay stored in the rendered file, and it confuses the player? In spite of this, if I render the project with Vegas, there is no problem with sync even this way. Or in case I render with HCEnc, the mpeg plays fine.
On the other hand, AVStoDVD uses different settings then me in HCEnc, I will try to implement those and see what happens. Maybe that is causing the problems.
This is mine:
[Attachment 46421 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 46422 - Click to enlarge]
This is AVStoDVD
[Attachment 46423 - Click to enlarge]
Where do you see that Avisynth script? I cannot find it in any menu point.
By the way, I will test if a Sony rendered mp4 could be feeded to the AVStoDVD and a good DVD would be written, in case yes, I can go that way.
With split filespanned camcorder clips you should use the camcorder software to join the clips . Not tsmuxer.
Or import the entire folder structure - there is metadata in the folder that ensures it's gapless . In vegas I think you use the device explorer, I can't recall right now, but there is a "proper" way to do this in each NLE (In PP you use the media browser). Importing individual clips or tsmuxer is the "wrong" way - you can get glitches or audio problems in between the gaps
Those bundled softwares almost always export the joined files reencoded. That's why the camcorder user community here omit those. They are a nerve to use and mostly do poor job.
But even if TSMuxer is not the recommended tool, it doesn't answer the question how it is possible that in spite of all the delay issues, when the DVD is played on the computer player, all the clip is in sync, from beginning to end. I would dare to bet on that the desktop player doesn't see something in the file that it should, to be able to sync it properly. I cannot think of any other logical possibility, when I consider the DVD is played back fine on the computer, even if TSMuxer was used to join.
I have tested adding a delay myself to the rendered project video sound channel, now in that case the latency is even bigger than 80msec. So it seems this thing with the delay is only correctable in case I import the raw files to the encoder.
Well, it made me really tired. I will try what happens if I feed an uncompressed avi from Vegas to AVStoDVD, if it works I will author the DVD that way, if not, I will drop the idea of DVD authoring and will target storing the project video in mpeg format. At least that way it works. And try putting it on BluRay later.
I have tested starting the new project and omiting the TS files. Unfortunately even that way the syncing problems are there, so I think it is not a TSMuxer caused problem. Sony rendered AVI processed by AVStoDVD don't work either, so it means I have to stick to keeping the files as mpeg.
But there is something I still want to try. In AVStoDVD, where is the option to set audio delay? I examined a factory made DVD that plays fine both on my computer and desktop player and I noticed a difference: in Media Info I can read it has an audiodelay set. In case of my DVD's there is no such flag. How can you add this in AVStoDVD. I want to set it to see that maybe this is the thing that the player is missing.
Factory made DVD with the delay info:
[Attachment 46434 - Click to enlarge]
Yeah, I found it but this doesn't reflect in the file later. I open the output in mediainfo and no report of delay. I think when you set the value in avisynth the muxer just cuts the audio accordingly. I would like to achieve that the delay would be reflected in the vob mediainfo. I wonder how they save this info to the file in the factory...
The old adage says "If it is not there then it can not be reported". I looked at 2 commercial dvds and neither show any audio delay.
Did you load that same mpeg and did avstodvd report the audio delay as before ? Try this. Prepare one dvd ignoring the message but not re-encode. See a delay then ?
Frustratingly I forget the source clip I used to generate the delay dialog since the others I tried I could not get in to that section. It was greyed out. Meaning if there is no delay then it is crazy to introduce one.
Since I am doing video editing one of my experience is that in this trade there are many crazy things
It doesn't work either to have the mts authored on DVD without delay correction.
I just re-read one of your earlier posts that discusses you have mixed sources.
To put it simply and bluntly if you do not render directly in the editor and re-encode there how can you expect everything to be in sync ?
But you are using Vegas. You can, if memory serves, export direct from that into Sony Dvd Architect and let that do the encoding.
But the whole thread has got somewhat confusing with all these different sources. And, for me atleast, it is darn impossible to detect this audio sync issue. And if it is only 80 milisecs that is surely un-detectable to the average viewer.
I don't think the mixed source has any significance, as I mentioned, the resulting DVD is played fine on computer DVD drive, in spite of the mixed source, and let's add that mixed source here means the same type of files with the difference of being joined or not before. Problems only happen at the desktop player. Secondly, I tried exporting single source project from Sony Vegas, and the sync problems are there. This issue is not just by me, I found comments online reporting same problems. At the same time, other DVDs are played fine on every of my devices, this rules out that the desktop player is faulty. It seems to me it is rather a problem that comes from how the DVD player see the file.
I have checked 2 third party DVDs, both play fine on the desktop player with proper sync, and both has an audio delay setting. Logically I would assume it has nothing to do with my problem, but what if that delay is there for the desktop player, while other players simply omit it. In that case mine could be played well, too if it was set. It sounds crazy, but who knows...
You don't see the latency watching the mpeg files. You should be here to see it when I play it on the desktop player. Demux one of the mpegs I uploaded, use delaycut to add +250msec delay to the audio, remux, and you will see what I am seeing from the desktop player.
Last edited by Bencuri; 9th Aug 2018 at 19:03.
I am confused.
Now you state that all is well on the computer dvd player. Surely that is the whole point of the exercise >> to have a dvd that plays perfectly.
If your aim is to produce dvds and distribute them then your clients will be using dvd players either stand-alone or computer. If the disk works for you in this envoirment it is reasonable to expect it to work for them. When I was producing dvds for distribution that was my testing strategy. Test on both computer player and a standalone. If both showed no issue then I was confident to send them out.
What is this troublesome desktop player that you keep referring to ? And, with respect, why should I introduce such a delay when there is no need to.
It's a Sony BDP S370. But as I said with third party discs it runs fine.
And guess what, it is getting even more complicated. I have just noticed, that on one of my laptops, the audio is also out of sync when the problematic DVD is played with BSPlayer. Just like in case of the desktop player. But, on my other laptop, the audio is in sync when the same DVD is played, again, with BSPlayer. I used the same USB DVD drive for playback in both cases. Maybe this whole stuff is just because of a codec problem, that is present on one of my laptops and the desktop player, too... But there must be a solution to overcome this considering the third party DVD plays fine regardless of with what I try to play it.
It seems that some info was 'lost in translation'. 'Desktop' usually, well it does in my book, refer to something internal to a PC/Laptop. A USB player is normally referred to as 'external' and the Sony BDP S370 as stand-alone since there is no normal physical connection to a PC. And for completeness BSPlayer is a software player.
Of course you could have a software issue on one of your laptops. You could equally have burning issues or variable quality blank disks.
In case I use the same external USB drive to play the DVD, and on one laptop with one player software the DVD plays fine, while on the other laptop with the same player software the sound is out of sync, I am sure it is because some kind of incompatibility of the player software to the file due to some codec. Especially in case I consider that I have third party DVD's that play fine on both laptops this way (that is: played on the same software). Very likely because those have a coding that is not incompatibile on either laptops. I guess this is why the standalone player cannot play my discs correctly. I have to figure out how to encode the file to solve this incompatibility. Probably it is that delay setting, probably different coding settings.
Not a codec issue since there are only two involved. One for the video (mpeg2) and one for the audio (ac3). Without their presence on the playing hardware you would not even see or hear anything. Bitrate could be an issue, especially if you have it on the higher part of the scale which is why I previously suggested a lower setting, if one laptop has a slow processor or lower memory. USB transfer could also be an issue since the higher bitrate means that data must be moved quicker. Commercial dvds are typically encoded at <6000 kbps for video.
You must continue to experiment. I would still limit the number of 'hops' ie software for muxing, authoring etc. The audio delay is, obviously, the greatest annoyance for you which is why I respectfully suggest a re-encode at NLE level and a lower bitrate. You have high quality source so even going down to <6000 kbps should not impact for dvd.
And since you already stated that the NLE encode was in sync whereas the other IIRC was not then that is the route to go. The other must then be hardware related so you should give yourself the best chance with bitrate considerations.
Beyond all of this I am just scratching my balding head.
The bitrate is not an issue, I ruled that out already.
I know you have previously discounted bitrate but the goalposts have moved. Did you test that dvd on both laptops ? and, more importantly in my eyes, what authoring option did you use.
Just one other thing. You have only AFAIk only discussed using BSPlayer. I know this is quite popular in Eastern Europe I have a friend who would 'swear' by it. But it is not the only software player out there. Vlc players back dvds just to name one.
Also with the Sony are you playing that to a tv or in to your monitor ?
I tested it on BS player. But in this case the players software is irrevelant. The essence is that it revealed the DVD playback can vary from system to system, and it is not necceaasrily that the standalone player is faulty. And let us not forget my factory DVD's run well regardless of system. I work with sony vegas on the monitor.
When I talked of Sony I was not referring to Vegas but the standalone player. Played to your monitor or a tv ?
I will make one final offer to you.
I assume you still have that Vegas project with the mixed sources that make the final dvd. Encode that direct in Vegas with a maximum bitrate of 6000 kbos and author with DVD Architect. Upload the final vob(s), ifos etc. to somewhere and send me the link via PM unless, that is, you also want others to try this.
I will then burn the dvd and test it.
But if you do not want to do this then you will have to live with variable playback even if there is no logical reason why this should happen.
Then I can help no more.