VideoHelp Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2
FirstFirst 1 2
Results 31 to 52 of 52
Thread
  1. Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    I knew V210 was 10-bit, but didn't realize it is MJPEG.
    Where are you getting that? V210 is uncompressed video.

    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    Seems in order for the Motu to capture it needs Adobe
    A lot of capture programs can't deal with 10 bit input.
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    I knew V210 was 10-bit, but didn't realize it is MJPEG.
    Where are you getting that? V210 is uncompressed video.

    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    Seems in order for the Motu to capture it needs Adobe
    A lot of capture programs can't deal with 10 bit input.
    When I uploaded the screen shot from the Adobe capture screen, you replied saying that it's best to capture lossless, not MJPEG. I assumed you were referring to the V210 as that what was reported. The MediaInfo screen shot also reports V210.

    I guess Motu is designed to work with Adobe. I didn't know that when I bought it. But I happened to have Adobe on my computer so it's been capturing fine.

    Vegas seems to do fine with the raw 10-bit AVI. But I do end up having to remux the audio because when I drop the AVI file in the Timeline, the audio track doesn't appear. I had this problem when I was using the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle but chalked it up to the fact that it captures audio at 24b/48k. The Motu is 16/44.1 so it really doesn't make sense why Vegas doesn't recognize the audio.
    Last edited by clashradio; 24th Jul 2018 at 20:25.
    Quote Quote  
  3. MJPEG is a lossy compression codec. V210 and UYVY are uncompressed video formats.

    Try installing UT Video Codec. It supports 10 bit 4:2:2 YUV. It may show up in your software.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    MJPEG is a lossy compression codec. V210 and UYVY are uncompressed video formats.

    Try installing UT Video Codec. It supports 10 bit 4:2:2 YUV. It may show up in your software.
    You're saying install UT Video Codec and use it with Adobe and then maybe Vegas might recognize the audio track?
    Quote Quote  
  5. Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    MJPEG is a lossy compression codec. V210 and UYVY are uncompressed video formats.

    Try installing UT Video Codec. It supports 10 bit 4:2:2 YUV. It may show up in your software.
    You're saying install UT Video Codec and use it with Adobe and then maybe Vegas might recognize the audio track?
    No, I'm saying UT Video Codec will reduce your file size to 1/2 or 1/3 that of uncompressed video without any loss of quality. MJPEG, being a lossy codec, is losing quality. You want your captures to be the best quality you can get. Then you filter and encode to make your files for viewing and distribution.

    I don't know what's causing your audio problem. I don't use Vegas.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Ok, I misunderstood. I thought you meant using UT Video might help with the Vegas audio issue. So far using the V210 codec hasn't been an issue with larger file sizes as I delete the raw files before I start a new project. I've got two, 6tb drives for storage.

    Oh, I think I know why you mentioned not using MJPEG...one of the tests I uploaded was captured using the Blackmagic Shuttle, set to capture MJPEG. All of the recent capturing I've been doing has been with the Motu using V210. Sorry, I forgot I did one recent capture test using the Shuttle & MJPEG. I also wanted to compare captured file sizes using 10-bit for the Shuttle and the Motu. They matched pretty close except the Motu's captured AVI was a little smaller. Probably due to the Shuttle's audio of 24/48 & Motu's 16/44.1.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    What do you do if you have a ntsc laserdisc of a UK movie? example Beatles Let It Be? It was filmed on 16mm I'm guessing at 25fps? The LD is from a 35mm blow-up print. I assume you would IVTC, but at 23.97?
    Quote Quote  
  8. PAL to NTSC conversions usually require deinterlacing followed SRestore() to remove blended frames, delivering 25 fps:

    Code:
    WhateverSource()
    QTGMC() # or Yadif(mode=1)
    SRestore()
    But this is a minefield of variations.
    Quote Quote  
  9. Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    What do you do if you have a ntsc laserdisc of a UK movie?
    Post a 10 second sample with movement, one from the source.
    Quote Quote  
  10. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Here is a 11 second clip captured at 486i, 10-bit 4:2:2 V210
    Image Attached Files
    Quote Quote  
  11. That Beatles clip is normal telecined film. Use

    Code:
    LWLibavVideoSource("Let It Be.avi", format="YUY2")
    AssumeBFF()
    TFM()
    TDecimate()
    Quote Quote  
  12. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Thank you jagabo. I'll have to really try to learn AVIsynth.
    Quote Quote  
  13. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    A few more questions:

    1) Shouldn't I see a 3:2 repeat pattern in the Let It Be file since it's normal telecined film?

    2) I assume for MiniDV footage if I want the best quality I'd need to apply QTGMC? Do you think it's best to transfer via Firewire and keep it digital; or should I capture via s-video at 10-bit uncompressed?

    3) if you don't know if the original source on the laserdisc is film or video, how do you know when to IVTC or QTGMC?
    Quote Quote  
  14. Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    1) Shouldn't I see a 3:2 repeat pattern in the Let It Be file since it's normal telecined film?
    Yes. Beware that many players/editors will automatically deinterlace DV for display. So you may not see it in your editor.

    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    2) I assume for MiniDV footage if I want the best quality I'd need to apply QTGMC?
    What matters is what the underlying video is. Film footage telecined for TV, then captured via DV device, remains telecined video and can be inverse telecined. Interlaced sources captured via DV device remains interlaced. I have an old DV camcorder that can shoot interlaced video (where each field comes from a different point in time, 59.94 fields per second) or progressive video (where the camcorder shoots 29.97 progressive frames per second and encodes as interlaced DV). So that fact that it's DV is irrelevant.

    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    Do you think it's best to transfer via Firewire and keep it digital; or should I capture via s-video at 10-bit uncompressed?
    If you're talking about something that was recorded to DV tape you are best off capturing via firewire. The data on the tape is already digital video compressed with a DV codec. Capturing via firewire is little more than a file copy.

    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    3) if you don't know if the original source on the laserdisc is film or video, how do you know when to IVTC or QTGMC?
    You examine the video frame by frame (be sure you editor isn't "helping" you by deinterlacing on the fly), and field by field. True interlaced video (suitable for QTGMC) changes with every field and every frame looks interlaced (when there's motion). Telecined film does not change with every field and some frames may look progressive.
    Quote Quote  
  15. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    If I have a multi-camera shoot using miniDV do i qtgmc each .avi file or deinterlace the final edited project?
    Quote Quote  
  16. Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    If I have a multi-camera shoot using miniDV do i qtgmc each .avi file or deinterlace the final edited project?
    You don't have to filter them all individually. You can easily join them together to make a single video. You can even select the parts you want to keep at the same time:

    A=AVISource("Video1.avi")
    B=AVISource("Video2.avi")
    C=AVISource("Video3.avi")
    D=AVISource("Video4.avi")

    A ++ B ++ C ++ D#Join the videos into a single video, keeping the audio synch

    Trim(0,1000) ++ Trim(3000,4000) ++ Trim(6500,7500) ++ Trim(9500,10000)#an example of how to select the parts you want to keep

    QTGMC()#bob the parts you're keeping


    If you mention the other kinds of editing you're doing, you might find most or all of it can easily be done in AviSynth as well.
    Quote Quote  
  17. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    [QUOTE=jagabo;2525777]
    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    1) Shouldn't I see a 3:2 repeat pattern in the Let It Be file since it's normal telecined film?
    Yes. Beware that many players/editors will automatically deinterlace DV for display. So you may not see it in your editor.

    Just curious; if Vegas is automatically deinterlacing for display, then I shouldn't see the comb effect/scan lines correct? Since I do see these odd/even lines that probably means Vegas is not auto deinterlacing?
    Quote Quote  
  18. Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    if Vegas is automatically deinterlacing for display, then I shouldn't see the comb effect/scan lines correct?
    That is correct. But be aware that it may treat different sources differently. It may know that DV is interlaced and automatically deinterlace the display, but huffyuv has no way of flagging it's interlaced so Vegas may not deinterlace for display. I don't use Vegas so I don't know what it does.

    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    Since I do see these odd/even lines that probably means Vegas is not auto deinterlacing?
    Yes, if you see combing it's obviously not deinterlacing that video.
    Quote Quote  
  19. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    Since I do see these odd/even lines that probably means Vegas is not auto deinterlacing?
    Yes, if you see combing it's obviously not deinterlacing that video.[/QUOTE]

    That's what's confusing is I am seeing the combing, but not the 3:2 pattern.
    Quote Quote  
  20. Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    I am seeing the combing, but not the 3:2 pattern.
    Are you talking about the Let It Be clip in post #40? I see a very obvious 3 progressive, 2 interlaced frames, repeating. Starting with IPPPIIPPPII...

    Also, if you bob it you see a 3:2 repeat pattern except for the initial orphaned field: 01112233344...

    Note that 3:2 isn't the only possible pattern. Some videos may use 2:3:3:2 (viewed as frames you see four progressive frames, one interlaced frame, repeating). To go from 24 fps to 25 fps (film to PAL video) a program may use 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3, ie, 12 frames becomes 25 fields, which means 24 frames becomes 50 fields.
    Last edited by jagabo; 6th Aug 2018 at 17:00.
    Quote Quote  
  21. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Yes, the Let It Be clip;

    Does orphaned field mean the fact that I captured a random frame/field and not the beginning of the movie?

    When I scroll in my Timeline frame-by-frame I don't see any frames that are duplicating UNTIL I add Yadif. Then I get a 1,2,3,4,4 etc.

    But before I add Yadif I do see interlacing on two consecutive frames: 1,2,3,4i,5i etc. But the frames that have interlacing are not duplicate.

    Does the 3:2 pattern mean the frames repeat in that order?, or does it mean those frames will have interlacing?
    Quote Quote  
  22. Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    Yes, the Let It Be clip;

    Does orphaned field mean the fact that I captured a random frame/field and not the beginning of the movie?
    Yes. A video doesn't have to start with two fields from the same film frame. Film is often telecined, then edited as video without any consideration as to whether the cuts are made on progressive or interlaced frames.

    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    When I scroll in my Timeline frame-by-frame I don't see any frames that are duplicating
    You don't see duplicate FRAMES, you see duplicate FIELDS. Go back and read that long PM I sent you where I described how film becomes video. A quick recap:

    To convert 24 frame per second film to 60 field per second the film frames need to be displayed for the duration of 2.5 fields (24 * 2.5 = 60). This is achieved by alternating the display of film frames for the duration of 2 or 3 fields, an average of 2.5 fields. If you literally displayed the film frames for 2.5 fields you would end up with a visible tears in some fields.

    So, for four film frames

    Code:
    0, 1, 2, 3
    We perform 2:3 pulldown:

    Code:
    0t 0b 1t 1b 1t 2b 2t 3b 3t 3b (t = top field , b = bottom field, top field displayed first, 4 film frames becomes 10 fields)
    Notice that the first film frame, is displayed for 2 fields, the second film frame is displayed for 3 fields, the third film frame is displayed for 2 fields, the fourth for 3 fields.

    When those fields are captured and digitized pairs of fields are woven together into video frames:

    Code:
    0t/0b, 1t/1b, 1t/2b, 2t/3b, 3t/3b (top field to be displayed first)
    Note that the order of the fields is still the same and the sequence always alternates between top and bottom fields. When both fields come from the same film frame you have a progressive video frame. When the fields come from different film frames you have interlaced video frames. Removing the t, b and / notation:

    Code:
    00, 11, 12, 23, 33
     P,  P,  I,  I,  P
    Every video frame looks different (when there is motion), you don't see repeated video frames. It's the fields that are repeated.

    Originally Posted by clashradio View Post
    Does the 3:2 pattern mean the frames repeat in that order?, or does it mean those frames will have interlacing?
    It means the film frames are displayed for the duration of 2 or 3 video fields. You can start with a 2, or you can start with a 3 -- you just have to alternate between the two to maintain an average of 2.5. Once the video has been edited (or captured starting at some random point) you don't know which the telecine started with.
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads