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  1. Member Bernix's Avatar
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    I know, it was discussed, but what is the reason? If is it legal issue, then why there are rarely models that recording from them can be read in PC play and edit them there? From relatively common brand. Glad I have one, but encryption of recording seems to me be big disadvantage for TV, dvb-t and similar thing producing companies. So why most of them do the encryption, and some very rare didn't?
    I though it is because some legal issues. But then it has to be impossible to get one that do not encrypting recording.


    Thanks for answer.


    Bernix
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  2. Originally Posted by Bernix View Post
    I know, it was discussed, but what is the reason? If is it legal issue, then why there are rarely models that recording from them can be read in PC play and edit them there? From relatively common brand. Glad I have one, but encryption of recording seems to me be big disadvantage for TV, dvb-t and similar thing producing companies. So why most of them do the encryption, and some very rare didn't?
    I though it is because some legal issues. But then it has to be impossible to get one that do not encrypting recording.
    First time hear - did you contacted with manufacturer to ask for legal justification for this? Do you know which encryption is used? IMHO you need to pay for encryption (most if not al CA systems are licensee) and as such doubt if this is voluntary manufacturers choice.
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  3. Member Bernix's Avatar
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    First time hear
    I don't know, what you hear first time. There is not encryption. It is FTA channels But HD and HEVC. But every TV set i see now, hasn't ability to recordings can be read in PC. This is not TV set what I mean, but DVB-T2 set top box. And it hasn't this encryption feature. So readable in PC and editable. I'm in central europe, if in other parts of world is situation different, then sorry. But here is it almost unable to get such desktop. Of course. There is way like Avermedia sticks, but not TV's nor set top boxes that I know.
    The question is why they encrypt (Samsung, and other big players) when it is disadvantage for them. If I can bought one with not able to transfer to PC, or one that has this ability, which one I will choose?
    And of course don't know any encryption algorithm.



    Sorry if any misunderstanding happened.


    Bernix
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    Assuming there really is no legal requirement in your country to encrypt recordings of these broadcasts ... Possibly receivers using the same hardware are sold in other countries where there is a legal requirement to encrypt recordings from FTA channels. If there is no law in your country requiring any FTA broadcasts to be recorded without encryption, then the manufacturer does not need to change what the receiver does when recording. It doesn't hurt sales very much because there are undoubtedly many people who don't care as much as you do about having portable recordings, or keeping recordings indefinitely.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 3rd Jul 2018 at 12:13.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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  5. Originally Posted by Bernix View Post
    First time hear
    I don't know, what you hear first time. There is not encryption. It is FTA channels But HD and HEVC. But every TV set i see now, hasn't ability to recordings can be read in PC. This is not TV set what I mean, but DVB-T2 set top box. And it hasn't this encryption feature. So readable in PC and editable. I'm in central europe, if in other parts of world is situation different, then sorry. But here is it almost unable to get such desktop. Of course. There is way like Avermedia sticks, but not TV's nor set top boxes that I know.
    The question is why they encrypt (Samsung, and other big players) when it is disadvantage for them. If I can bought one with not able to transfer to PC, or one that has this ability, which one I will choose?
    And of course don't know any encryption algorithm.



    Sorry if any misunderstanding happened.


    Bernix
    Same here - i'm from Europe - that's why it is very new to me that FTA channels are encrypted... Perhaps TV use weird format (like indexed TS) Are you able to place small sample for such recording?
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  6. Member Bernix's Avatar
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    O.k. I write it bad. There is no encryption in FTA channels. But recording those channels at 99,0% of devices, the recording is only playable at device, that it recorded. So I think manufactures has to be somehow forces to encrypt these recordings.
    Here is it normal TS i think. Just my set top box name is *.TSV so after renaming to ts, it behaves as ordinary ts file. Then mkvtoolnix and avidemux opened it really fast.
    So FTA channels aren't encrypted at all. But devices encrypts it. To me it seems like great disadvantage. But as usually_quiet pointed out probably just my and probably few others problem. I didn't buy Avermedia, because it is not very good, use computer during recording. I'm bit old fashioned so have only 1 PC and this is problem. So solving this with DVB-T2 STB. Funny STB was shortcut for communist secret police in my country. National secret security? Probably wrongly translated.
    So conclusion it is not encrypted but TV's and STB encrypting it. Reason I don't know. I have feeling they are forced to do this.
    The spec of our DVB-T2 is something like HEVC 1920x1080 50fps at about 5000kb (something in the middle can be over 9000kbps also) + aac 128 2x + ac3 stereo 448kbps +dvb subtitle track. Hope I didn't write it too much wrong.


    Thank you pandy and usualy_quiet!
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  7. Originally Posted by Bernix View Post
    O.k. I write it bad. There is no encryption in FTA channels. But recording those channels at 99,0% of devices, the recording is only playable at device, that it recorded. So I think manufactures has to be somehow forces to encrypt these recordings.
    OK sounds like you are from Czech - encryption is weird - i can imagine that manufacturers are forced to encrypt recording by CI+ licence or by HDMI2 license (not sure about license conditions for both) - for sure HDMI 2 is extremely DRM protecting also CI+ owned by encryption company (Kudelski Group owner of Nagra). Once again i really wish to know what TV manufacturer says about this that you can't move recording from one TV to another. Also i would contact and raise this to consumer authority in your country - it looks like serious violation of market regulations (seem EU for now support open and unrestricted use of FTA recordings). I mean seriously - you should formally complain to consumer protection authority - this violate your rights as i believe FTA channels are paid by your taxes.
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  8. Member Bernix's Avatar
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    Hi pandy,
    it is only encrypted recording. I can see what i want on any device. But not watch recorded content (with expection (some devices allows it)) where ever i want. So unfortunally I have Cable TV on my thompson TV so it is bit of work but some day i switch it back to tv tuner FTA and probably send you example, so it is o.k. it is protected DVB-C(2). But using internal dvb tuner itself (on this TV) i can play it only on this tv even i think only on this serial number tv (not sure). And this is why i asked the question. Cable tv DVB-C(2) is of course protected and i don't complain about it. But devices i know encrypted recording from freely transmitted through air content. And because it is not any advantage for manufacturer, so i thought they are pushed to do this.
    Here for clarification.
    1) recording FTA from internal DVB-T tuner on thompson -> I can watch recording only on this thompson TV. 99% devices behaves same way.

    2) recording FTA from avermedia DVB-T tuner (in PC) i can watch this content everywhere since it is only usual mp4 with AVC+acc.
    3) recording FTA from Evolveo DVB-T2 set top box FTA I can see on that STB and also edit and play in PC, and after renaming probably on every TV, STB supporting Hevc in case of DVB-T2 in sd case supporting *.ts
    I wrote above, to clarify things. If any further question or doubts please ask. If anything is unclear.
    Once again, I'm talking about recording of FTA DVB-T(2) not about DVB-C(2) DVB-C(2) is of course protected and never tried to watch it anywhere else.

    Bernix
    Video Avidemux, Mkvtoolnix, Subtitle edit, Vidcoder. Other software that I love :Animation: Opentoonz, Painting: Krita, Video capture: OBS studio, Video player: Potplayer, TV recording: VLC, NLE: KDEnlive
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    Device manufacturers WILL and DO encrypt/obfuscate content stored on their devices regardless of whether the broadcast was encrypted or in the clear to discourage people attempting to offload content because they have been bullied and pressured by content owners to restrict consumer use. It could be as simple as forking a common filesystem like ext3 and changing it just enough that no tools will be able to read the data. Or a very simple encryption scheme that is their own design. No royalities ad since most devices are fairly closed it would be hard for you and I to reverse engineer, maybe not work the effort/cost. This is common. THEY don't want YOU to do anything but watch the content then delete the content. No offloading onto other devices and formats such as from set top box to pc, transcoded to be served to mobile devices you own. They have a paid ecosystem they want you to pay for and want you to pay multiple times for the same content-profit maximization principle......

    Good luck.

    Maybe I am jaded?
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  10. Originally Posted by Bernix View Post
    I wrote above, to clarify things. If any further question or doubts please ask. If anything is unclear.
    Once again, I'm talking about recording of FTA DVB-T(2) not about DVB-C(2) DVB-C(2) is of course protected and never tried to watch it anywhere else.
    Bernix i do understand - no need to repeat - once again - this can be agreement between vendor and some technologies providers used by vendor - such technologies may be CI+ and HDMI - there can be some agreement between those companies and TV vendor may blindly apply policy from non-FTA channels to all channels also FTA'a - some vendors may extrapolate some rules to all data. That's why i recommend to raise formal complains to TV vendor and to Czech government agency responsible for customer protection. O work in broadcast industry to see wierd behaviours - some vendors are more strict than required, other don't care at all.
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  11. Member Bernix's Avatar
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    Thank you Pandy.
    But in country where when you buy blank CD or DVD or other media, say for 9 unit, you have to pay 10 unit because 1 unit goes to OSA, which is organization protecting authors rights, I think there is nothing one can do. They don't bother what are you using media for, just presumed you will use it for illegal content. Stop watched these nonsense causes, probably they canceled this payment, but it seems like presumption of guilty.
    Probably it is in not now active or valid (don't know right word for it), but it shows how our country is ruled. This can happen here. Don't know how compatible we are with EU, but we should be.



    Thank you once again!


    Bernix
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  12. Member netmask56's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bernix View Post
    I know, it was discussed, but what is the reason? If is it legal issue, then why there are rarely models that recording from them can be read in PC play and edit them there? From relatively common brand. Glad I have one, but encryption of recording seems to me be big disadvantage for TV, dvb-t and similar thing producing companies. So why most of them do the encryption, and some very rare didn't?
    I though it is because some legal issues. But then it has to be impossible to get one that do not encrypting recording.


    Thanks for answer.


    Bernix
    Have a look for any of the Enigma 2 PVR models - various makers and generally no encryption. https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/VU-Plus-Solo-4K In Australia the Enigma2 based units are marketed by Beyonwiz, a Korean/Australian company and vary few Oz PVR's are encrypted except the big name units like Samsung and LG etc..
    BeyonWiz T3 PVR ~ Popcorn A-500 ~ Samsung ES8000 65" LED TV ~ Windows 7 64bit ~ Yamaha RX-A1070 ~ QnapTS851-4G
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