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  1. Member
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    Sorry if this is old news, but I just visited Supermediastore and Amazon and see that some Taiyo-Yuden discs are labeled "CMC Taiyo-Yuden". I thought Taiyo-Yuden manufactured discs only in their own factories. I know CMC makes Verbatim AZO discs, but when did they start making Taiyo-Yuden.

    Also, all the discs they sell are rated 4 stars+, https://www.supermediastore.com/collections/blank-recordable-dvd-r-disc-discs-media including their own Linkyo branded discs which have a much lower overall rating here. Hmmm...
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  2. CMC may have purchased the name 'Taiyo-Yuden'.
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -Carl Sagan
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    Apparently you're right. Just did quick search and they stopped making optical discs at the end of 2015 and passed on the name to CMC which labels their media "Powered by TY Technology".
    Last edited by lingyi; 2nd Jun 2018 at 20:48.
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  4. The CMC-TY arrangement is a bit different from CMC-Verbatim-AZO.

    The Verbatim AZOs were made by CMC using the original Verbatim (Mitsubishi Chemical) AZO production machinery, under some degree of active participation/supervision from Verbatim. Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation is still alive as an independent entity, so the arrangement is cooperative.

    In contrast, Taiyo-Yuden as a company is dead and long gone. Nobody really gives a damn about premium optical disc media anymore: computer burners today will make a usable disc from wet cardboard, so demand for ultra-pure ultra-quality media tanked. The complete abandonment of DVD recorders for home video burning decimated TY sales even further: the picayune burners in these aging units were really the only drives out there that required the old-school compatibility advantage TY offered.

    When sales flatlined beyond sustainability a few years ago, TY sold themselves to JVC. That company continued to mfr TY discs using some of the TY production line, but without the same hyper-vigilant quality control TY employed. The resulting "JVC-TY" discs were still pretty good, and the only reasonable alternative/backup to Verbatim AZO, but consistency slipped noticeably and the percentage of failed discs per package increased. Eventually JVC decided they couldn't be bothered, and sold TY off to CMC. With no other outside participant to interfere, CMC was free to mfr TY media almost as sloppily as they mfr discs for your local dollar store. Of all the many CMC house brands, TY is still the best, but they aren't what they were in their heyday. If your burner needs the 99% reliability and compatibility of the circa-2003 Japanese disc standard, the CMC-TY reject rate is a lot higher now than when TY made these same discs. "Good" CMC-TY discs that don't outright fail during burn still exhibit significantly higher error rates than the "real" TY or JVC-TY era.

    Verbatim AZO is the last remaining blank dvd media with any pretense to top quality. How much longer Verbatim will maintain it as an option is unclear. It has become very difficult to find in retail stores and non-specialist web vendors, which today mostly offer discounted non-AZO "Verbatim" branded media that isn't really Verbatim at all: its the same generic junk CMC makes for Staples or OfficeMax.
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  5. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TreeTops View Post
    CMC may have purchased the name 'Taiyo-Yuden'.
    No. Not just the name.

    Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
    and passed on the name to CMC which labels their media "Powered by TY Technology".
    Again, not just the name. It truly is powered by the same materials. Just different ownership and oversight now.

    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    computer burners today will make a usable disc from wet cardboard, so demand for ultra-pure ultra-quality media tanked.
    That is not true, and never has been.
    The ONLY thing leading to decline of optical sales is streaming and non-disc media.

    The complete abandonment of DVD recorders for home video burning decimated TY sales even further:
    DVD recorders were never a major market, and more often used to play than record.

    The resulting "JVC-TY" discs were still pretty good, and the only reasonable alternative/backup to Verbatim AZO, but consistency slipped noticeably and the percentage of failed discs per package increased. Eventually JVC decided they couldn't be bothered, and sold TY off to CMC.
    That's all wrong, jumbled information. Taiyo Yuden had a joint venture with JVC years before TY sold optical manufacturing to CMC. And during the "JVC TY" era, discs were still fine.

    With no other outside participant to interfere, CMC was free to mfr TY media almost as sloppily as they mfr discs for your local dollar store.
    No. The CMC Pro (aka CMC TY) are not just TY in name only. CMC purchased the TY tech, dyes and all, and quality is still mostly there.

    the CMC-TY reject rate is a lot higher now than when TY made these same discs.
    To some a degree, that's a statement about the crappy burners than now exist. Once upon a time, stuff like Samsung and LG was mid-grade burners. Now that's all we have.

    Verbatim AZO is the last remaining blank dvd media with any pretense to top quality. How much longer Verbatim will maintain it as an option is unclear. It has become very difficult to find in retail stores and non-specialist web vendors, which today mostly offer discounted non-AZO "Verbatim" branded media that isn't really Verbatim at all: its the same generic junk CMC makes for Staples or OfficeMax.
    That's not any different from the tape days. If you wanted quality tapes, you didn't go to Best Buy or Walmart. Specialty houses were needed. Had Amazon existed back then, it surely would have been a good source for quality VHS and S-VHS tapes as well.
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  6. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    computer burners today will make a usable disc from wet cardboard, so demand for ultra-pure ultra-quality media tanked.
    That is not true, and never has been.
    The ONLY thing leading to decline of optical sales is streaming and non-disc media.
    We can argue semantics but the trend is the same. I'll re-phrase: computer drives of recent years give sufficient appearance of burning well on readily-available garbage dvd media that the average user typically spot checks the initial burn was OK, throws the disc in a drawer, and forgets about it. By the time they notice the disc is crapping out a year later, the material on it is no longer of interest, so they don't really care. Streaming may have killed pre-recorded pressed physical media, but its impact on blank dvd sales wasn't quite as severe. Cloud storage, ever-cheaper-larger hard drives, Netflix, phone dominance, disposable USB sticks: whatever the combination of causes, volume of demand for recordable dvd media offering quality burns that can pass sustained error-free inspection over the long haul is much less today than it was ten years ago.

    The blank dvd market wasn't (and isn't) directly comparable with the analog tape era: premium quality tapes were upsold at every imaginable retailer. Every tape brand had a good-better-best-premium marketing strategy by 1982. Many people wouldn't buy the higher grades at stores, because their markup was ridiculous compared to specialty mail-order and catalog dealers, but quality blank tapes were available (at the inflated price) nearly everywhere in a pinch, and from multiple mfrs. This didn't carry over to blank dvd media: digital recording to dvd was never as popular as recording to analog VHS tape (in part because cable, satellite and dvd rentals had already diminished the recording craze). Single-SKU price wars replaced tiered marketing, and OEM / private-label deals consolidated blank dvd mfrg to just a few sources very quickly. Video professionals (or those needing to burn serious data dvds) tended to be a step ahead of consumers, bypassing retail and heading straight to web suppliers from the beginning.

    In North America TY had zero presence at traditional retailers, but Verbatim AZO was in every store until the day MCC decided to subcontract a cheaper generic alternative for their retail channel. Genuine AZO migrated to primarily Amazon and specialty web dealers several years ago (the non-AZO retail packaging looks deceptively the same, but the actual discs inside are standard-issue generic supplied by CMC and a couple other OEMs).
    Last edited by orsetto; 4th Jun 2018 at 21:31.
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  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    the average user typically spot checks the initial burn was OK, throws the disc in a drawer, and forgets about it.
    Most don't even spot-check. Burn, stick in wallet/drawer/case/whatever, forget. Try to use it months/years later, realize it's (usually) garbage from Umedisc, CMC (non-TY), etc. And it's how many optical myths start. That's been true since before DVD, back during CD-R era.

    By the time they notice the disc is crapping out a year later, the material on it is no longer of interest, so they don't really care.
    Usually not. Everything from mix CDs (mix tapes) to family photos to backups ... all lost. And it upset the people. Sadly, for the VHS>DVD transfer, too many made the mistake off tossing the VHS tapes. So their memories are now 100% gone. The only people that tended to not care were the folks that wanted to "back up" Blockbuster or Netflix. (Yeah, Netflix with discs in the mail ... sounds antiquated now, doesn't it?)

    The blank dvd market wasn't (and isn't) directly comparable with the analog tape era: premium quality tapes were upsold at every imaginable retailer.
    No. This also refers to the 90s, not 80s. You had issues getting higher-end TDK, JVC, even Sony. BASF was impossible. (Stuff like Fuji Pro was also impossible, but that tape was overrated crap, much like RitekG03/G04 a decade ago. Fuji Pro was the Ritek of its time.) Most retailers had mass-market consumer tapes of lower and lowest grades. Quality (non-Maxell) S-VHS was sometimes available at some Best Buys, but only in a tiny quantity if it was. Fry's often had a couple, too. But again, specialty stores. Back then, catalog sales, not even online.

    Every tape brand had a good-better-best-premium marketing strategy by 1982.
    It wasn't marketing. There were definite quality grades of materials and QC. You'll never convince me that Maxell Bronze was the same as Maxell HiFi. It just wasn't.

    This didn't carry over to blank dvd media: digital recording to dvd was never as popular as recording to analog VHS tape (in part because cable, satellite and dvd rentals had already diminished the recording craze).
    Not it. The issue was that analog recorders were even harder to understand than a VCR. People often didn't know how to set a VCR clock, much less understand why a DVD recorder didn't have coax in to coax out (as most didn't passthrough the coax signal). A few bad burns later, and the DVD recorder was returned or retired to player only. Not that the person had many not-retail VHS tapes anyway. Some got pissed when they couldn't turn their entire Disney VHS collection into DVDs (due to Macrovision), and you'd often here griping about "the companies making us buy the movie again".

    OEM / private-label deals consolidated blank dvd mfrg to just a few sources very quickly.
    No. The worldwide recession (2008-2010) was directly responsible for almost every optical manufacturer going under. Before that, only Pioneer (PVC) had stopped making media, and most were in partnership with CMC (TDK/Imation, Verbatim, others) or Ritek (Maxell, Fuji, others). Those that survived, aside from CMC, all diversified into other medias.

    Video professionals (or those needing to burn serious data dvds) tended to be a step ahead of consumers, bypassing retail and heading straight to web suppliers from the beginning.
    That was our only choice in 2001. I remember ordering from the Apple Store and Americal, and later Meritline and SuperMediaStore.

    In North America TY had zero presence at traditional retailers
    They did as Maxell and Fuji rebadges in the mid 2000s.

    but Verbatim AZO was in every store until the day MCC decided to subcontract a cheaper generic alternative for their retail channel. Genuine AZO migrated to primarily Amazon and specialty web dealers several years ago (the non-AZO retail packaging looks deceptively the same, but the actual discs inside are standard-issue generic supplied by CMC and a couple other OEMs).
    That part is true. But I'd note that the Life Series at first had white packaging. It changed to near-identical only after several years.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 5th Jun 2018 at 19:33.
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    @orsetto and lordsmurf:

    O.K., so we've got some interesting back & forth of disagreements here, but what is the bottom line: what should those of us who really do give a damn about quality and longevity of the media (what's recorded on it !) do about this now: what should we look to buy, and from where, if it still makes any difference ?

    I tried my best to stock up on my standard picks over the years -- Singaporean-made Verb AZO for D/L, TY TYGO3 for computer, & TY TYGO2 for my Pioneer DVDRs -- but it is questionable whether I ever bought enough of it -- particularly if it has ceased to be obtainable. Is that optical disc landscape hopeless now ?

    What do you each think of the supposedly long-term archival M-Disk ? (Probably just a scam . . . ?) Are they even still being sold ? Haven't seen 'em on the shelf at Fry's for awhile now.

    I use HDDs and flashdrives a lot more these days than I used to do, but I'm very reluctant to simply write off optical storage as another critical option.

    [Oh, almost forgot about CDs for music. Yeah, quaint. Alright, so I live in a time warp -- regarding many things. And I make no apologies for that either. I recall advice being given here that finding decent-to-good quality CD media was not much of an issue. Perhaps that was even true at one time, but with this it is likely no different than the tide of lowest-common-denominator quality that seems to be overtaking everything in recent years.]
    Last edited by Seeker47; 5th Jun 2018 at 21:56.
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  9. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    By the time they notice the disc is crapping out a year later, the material on it is no longer of interest, so they don't really care.
    Usually not. Everything from mix CDs (mix tapes) to family photos to backups ... all lost. And it upset the people. Sadly, for the VHS>DVD transfer, too many made the mistake off tossing the VHS tapes. So their memories are now 100% gone.
    I'm not talking about fifteen years ago: we're discussing consumer behavior over the past couple years. Ten-fifteen years ago, if you were sloppy about backups, you were woefully screwed. Today, consumers are glued to their damned phones, and most of those automatically back themselves up to a cloud service. As do Chrome devices and many Windows 10 PCs. This lulls people into even more of a "meh" attitude towards backups on optical disc. And without the huge motivation of video use, interest rapidly declined to where it is now: full circle back to people thinking the disc tray in desktop CPUs is a cup holder.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    The blank dvd market wasn't (and isn't) directly comparable with the analog tape era: premium quality tapes were upsold at every imaginable retailer.
    No. This also refers to the 90s, not 80s. You had issues getting higher-end TDK, JVC, even Sony. BASF was impossible.
    Retail demand for "better" tapes died in the '90s but they were everywhere in the '80s. I worked in those stores for awhile, then after I began working in post houses and Mac publishing I bought part ownership of a video store that I held for 20 years. Within months after TDK came up with the "High Grade" option in 1981, EVERY store carried it (from independent corner drugstores to Sears). The margins were lucrative (for awhile, anyway), and all the other tape mfrs followed suit. If you were going to retail blank tapes at all, you would have been an utter imbecile not to carry and display TDK higher grades. This was true where I lived in the suburbs of New York, and in every city I visited thru the 1980s (Chicago, Boston, LA, SF Washington). Perhaps not in lower population or rural areas, but I guarantee you every store in larger cities (from bodegas on up) carried a small stock of TDK HG and HiFi tapes, praying some geek would wander in and they'd make a killing. As to BASF, at one glorious point it was more common in NYC than Fuji (agree Fuji was pretty bad: grainy as hell, and their Betas had even more dropout issues than Sony's own dismal consumer grade L750).

    SVHS was a different story: by the time it debuted, VCRs and blanks to feed them had already declined into commodity status (with the only criteria consumers cared about being price). The same people who had willingly paid $14 for a TDK HG in 1982 flatly refused to pay anywhere near that for SVHS blanks in 1988, so SVHS became more of a niche format than it deserved. Finding SVHS blanks in local stores was never a picnic.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    Every tape brand had a good-better-best-premium marketing strategy by 1982.
    It wasn't marketing. There were definite quality grades of materials and QC. You'll never convince me that Maxell Bronze was the same as Maxell HiFi. It just wasn't.
    You're misinterpreting me. No one is arguing whether better grades of tape were indeed better: they usually were. But on the consumer level, it was also a tiered marketing strategy. This did get a bit ridiculous at its peak, what with Standard, High Standard, High Grade, HiFi, Premium, Ultra Premium, and SVHS all vying for retail dollars. A mfr labeling a tape package as "pro" and selling it thru specialty channels didn't necessarily mean the actual tape stock inside was any different from decent consumer standard-grade: that was another marketing tack meant to rook a higher margin from corporate buyers. You really had to understand the subtleties of mfr nomenclature and distribution if you wanted to buy truly "pro" grade tapes at prices commensurate with quality.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    In North America TY had zero presence at traditional retailers
    They did as Maxell and Fuji rebadges in the mid 2000s.
    I knew that, you knew that, and a few dozen geeks on Doom9 knew that. Nobody else did: TY had no presence under its own name outside specialty media vendors.
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  10. Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    what is the bottom line: what should those of us who really do give a damn about quality and longevity of the media (what's recorded on it !) do about this now: what should we look to buy, and from where, if it still makes any difference ?
    Nothing has really changed on that front since five years ago, aside from Verbatim AZO slipping further and further away from mainstream retail distribution (and TY disappearing down the rabbit hole of shoddy CMC quality control standards).

    With Verbatim 16x DVD-R or +R, you just need to make a habit of examining the package very closely to make sure it has an AZO trademark on it somewhere. They have been making it smaller and hiding it practically in the seams lately, I swear so retail customers will give up and just grab the non-AZO (which they now deceptively package in exactly the same purple/orange wrapper). Don't make that mistake: the non-AZO has gone from bad to worse. It used to be plain old bottom-feeder CMC media, but now Verbatim has taken to bulk buying any random crap they can find and slapping their name on it (I got a spindle that identified as Ritek a couple months ago). If buying from Amazon, be sure you see the AZO logo somewhere on the page, or match the SKU number from a known AZO package.

    The Verbatim 8x DVD-R you'd buy for a Pioneer recorder hasn't changed at all. It still comes in a 50-ct transparent cakebox with a plain white label on the side. No need (yet) to look for an AZO logo: all the 8x is MCC AZO. Buy from specialty dealers like Supermediastore, Rima, Amazon or eBay.

    I don't know what to suggest re TY. The original was fantastic, the JVC-TY was almost as good but with more rejects per pkg, the CMC-TY is all over the place in terms of QC. After seeing too many reports of significantly higher error rates on the CMC vs JVC, I try to track down any remaining stashes I can find of the JVC. Dealers who still have stock of JVC TYG02 silver are asking outrageous prices, so I've reluctantly switched to the white topped printables (much harder to write on). Those have begun to skyrocket in price as well, so I think I'll buy one more bulk box and call it a day. The Pioneers are great recorders, but their picayune disc requirements have become untenable (mine won't even burn 8x Verbatim AZO anymore: they accept only the JVC-TY). With streaming and downloading so prevalent, my Pioneers are relegated to VHS dubbing only: when that project winds down, I'm done with recorders.

    M-Disc was supplanted by BD-R (HTL) for most non-institutional purposes. BD-R (HTL) employs similar archival technology but offers far higher storage capacity at more attractive pricing. Beware of the similar-sounding BD-R (LTH): that media uses an organic dye technology similar to the dyes used in non-AZO commodity dvd blanks. Of course, you can't use BD-R directly in your Pioneers: you'd need to back up the contents of your DVDs to a PC with BluRay burner. A single BD-R can store the contents of approx five dvds.
    Last edited by orsetto; 6th Jun 2018 at 18:49.
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    I have a (much smaller) stock of BD-R. Not sure which type. Hopefully there is some non-microscopic identifier that can be found somewhere on the packaging. Apart from that, do the BD media brands matter much ?

    Also still curious re the CD blanks. It would surely suck if a lot of that recorded material was to be gone-zo in just a couple years.

    The ultimate stupidity of everything chasing the cheapest alternative always disturbed (and kinda baffled ) me. What good is a cheap solution that all-too-soon craps out on you ? One pays at least twice for cheap crap (buying again to replace whatever it was) . . . and that does not even factor in the possibility of something highly valuable being irretrievably lost in the process. But then, you know that saying: "Hydrogen and Stupidity are the most abundant elements in the universe." Way too much proof of that, every damn day !
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  12. Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    I have a (much smaller) stock of BD-R. Not sure which type. Hopefully there is some non-microscopic identifier that can be found somewhere on the packaging. Apart from that, do the BD media brands matter much ?
    Brands don't matter as much with the BD-R HTL: the nature of the media ensures a reasonably good chance of quality/reliability with any of them. There was touchstone test performed a few years back in France, where they determined Panasonic-made HTL was hands down the most consistently reliable. But those tests employ all manner of simulations, so you need to take them with a grain of salt. Panasonic-branded blank BD-R is extremely difficult (if not impossible) to obtain, so the point is rather moot anyway. I myself do not burn BD-R yet, but some extremely persnickety engineer friends of mine do, and they all swear by the Optical Quantum brand.

    Re identifying your existing stash of BD-R as HTL or LTH: just pop one in your PC while running ImgBurn: it should identify it in the status window (you don't need to burn it, just load it). or, if you still have the packaging intact, compare the UPC SKU number on a specialty vendor's website.

    Also still curious re the CD blanks. It would surely suck if a lot of that recorded material was to be gone-zo in just a couple years.
    Despite all the horror stories and urban legends, I've never had a CD-R fail on me, not even a junk brand, and I still use some that I burned back in 2001 (while DVDs fail on me periodically, even some AZOs). If you're concerned about longevity, migrate as much CD-R data as you can to BD-R backups and/or rotating HDDs.
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  13. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    What to buy in 2018 is easy. These:
    - https://amzn.to/2MaQA1O
    - https://amzn.to/2sR3Pw3

    Retail use of blank tape in 90s dwarfed the 80s. It was affordable and cheap -- but for the cheap quality. I use to laugh at the Sony-branded "Premium" tapes that were just standard grade. Not the worst tapes, but not the best. As the 90s progressed, the Sony tapes digressed in quality. Same for the Fuji Pro tapes via mail order -- complete crap. As with blank opticals, you have to learn about tapes to not buy junk. It's really not any different. The marketing didn't hit all brands, all grades, just a few bad apples.

    For optical, nothing has changed in 5-10 years. Still TY/YUDEN, still MKM/MCC, still NOS/new-old-stock PVC/TDK/MXL/etc.

    For Verbatim MCC/MKM, it's often as easy as NOT find "Life Series", not just hunting for a tiny AZO logo.

    I've never understood the hate for LTH BD-R. It was more about disc quality, not the LTH vs HTL.

    CD-R failure is real, not legend. I have a lot of bad discs, going all the way back to 1995. I keep those for scanning and research. Although I've never had time to publish my CD-R buying guides, I've long had research on them. Since I hated VCD, and video is my main area, it just never was a priority. Who still burns CDs anyway? Even 10-15 years ago?
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Who still burns CDs anyway?
    I do, for mix CDs although admittedly not often. I have an old Sony mini stereo system which pre-dates the MP3 format and only plays cassette tapes and CDs. I don't replace most things until they wear out.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Who still burns CDs anyway?
    I do, for mix CDs although admittedly not often. I have an old Sony mini stereo system which pre-dates the MP3 format and only plays cassette tapes and CDs. I don't replace most things until they wear out.
    And so do I. Until rather recently, I tended to drive the same car for approx. 10 years. (Putting not much more than 10K miles per year on the odometer -- on average -- certainly helped.) It was not until the most recent vehicle that I had a USB port on one -- so, no HDD or thumbdrive-based playback available. When I rent a car, I still look for a CD player being present, as a near-essential feature for longer drives, even though these are on the verge of going away. (?) So, yeah -- still playing CDs, and still burning them. (It is nice to have the thumbdrive option, though.)

    We're also on the same page re your last point: I'm reluctant to get rid of something that has not worn out, or gone into some major decline. I'm still using mainly 2006 to 2009 model computers. (Several of them.) It's not a matter of sheer thrift. If I really needed something more powerful or more contemporary, I would get it. But so far I haven't.
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  16. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    I've never understood the hate for LTH BD-R. It was more about disc quality, not the LTH vs HTL.
    Too many people experienced read compatibility problems with LTH in standalone players. It was an attempt to make recordable BD-R blanks more affordable, because the original HTL media was initially much too expensive to mfr (LTH could be mfr'd with modified DVD-R production machinery, HTL required a huge investment in new facilities). As with everything in consumer electronics, eventually the costs nearly equalized, so today there's little point in trying to save a few pennies with LTH (when HTL offers the archival benefits of M-Disc and better compatibility with standalone BD players). LTH might still have some cost-based appeal for certain applications, but for the archival purposes Seeker47 was asking about HTL is the media of choice.

    CD-R failure is real, not legend.
    I wasn't disputing the fact that CD-Rs fail: of course they do. If nothing else, they have the Achilles Heel of physical fragility due to unprotected data layer (just a micron thick lacquer? really? who came up with that brainstorm?) No one is more surprised than I am that I've never had a CD-R failure: I was merely reporting my good luck as a counter balance to the somewhat shrill warnings against CD-R we've been hearing for almost 20 years. CD-R is like any other dye-based optical technology: lots of "it depends" (media brand, media age, burning hardware, storage conditions, luck).

    Its always better to start with the best materials and workflow possible, but its easy to forget the success rate of even crummy media can surprise you. I've got terrible Memorex dual-layer DVD-Rs that I burned on a garbage office PC in 2005 that still read flawlessly, ditto hundreds of "junk" CMC-TDK burned before I knew TDK had switched over. OTOH, I've had a not-insignificant percentage of TYGO2 and AZO 8x DVD-Rs that failed randomly over the years. This is why I routinely try to burn two distinctly different media types for important DVD backups (usually TY and Verb AZO).

    There's no magic bullet perfect optical media or hardware: we start with the best and hope its enough. Even inert pressed media can fail spectacularly: been bruised by that more than a few times. Redundant backups to multiple HDDs (or perhaps cloud storage) are still necessary.

    Who still burns CDs anyway? Even 10-15 years ago?
    Luddites like me, Seeker47, and usually_quiet. Mix CDs, software installer and game backups for legacy computers, etc. There are still situations where a CD-R is the only practical short-term option (old car stereos, old audio systems in facilities or homes). I also happen to have a particular fondness for the sound of a few old high-end CD players like the Nakamichi OMS5A, OMS7AII, Kyocera DA-710cx, and Sony 707ES (all hovering on the verge of extinction). If I want to hear a digital music file decoded by their bespoke DAC systems, it needs to be in CD format. For all that, my 2006 iPod is probably my most-used audio device by far (could be worse: at least its the last of the Wolfson DAC models).
    Last edited by orsetto; 11th Jun 2018 at 14:15.
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  17. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Funny enough, yesterday, I burned my first CD in probably a year. My Windows XP install disc was too scratched, needed a new one.

    My old car stereo, trunk unit, was retired a couple years back.

    I still have a stash of MBI, MKM, and TY CD-R. Probably a few others, if I look. About 100 disc.
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