Creating x264

[magnu]

I've tried to compress some MKVs that were copied from DVD with MakeMKV, & the size of each file is around 700-900MBs. I've now been trying to convert them to x264 (h264) using the best settings possible for these 720x576 videos, however they are turning out around 100MBs each. I've tried with 4 different programs (including Handbrake, DVDFab, & VidCoder), but they are still around the same size.
Should they be so small, & is this because I had already used MakeMKV (My understanding of it is that it's not supposed to shrink them, but it does)?

Also, can anyone suggest the best program with the least fiddling needed?

[video.baba]

I've tried to compress some MKVs that were copied from DVD with MakeMKV, & the size of each file is around 700-900MBs.

That may be the case but you never told us anything about that: codec? etc.

I've now been trying to convert them to x264 (h264) using the best settings possible

Best has no meaning, 'best' to you is not 'best' to someone else.

they are turning out around 100MBs each

OK that sounds quite small for a movie (I'm guessing movie).

I've tried with 4 different programs (including Handbrake, DVDFab, & VidCoder), but they are still around the same size.

It's not a problem with the program.

I had already used MakeMKV (My understanding of it is that it's not supposed to shrink them, but it does)?

No, MakeMKV does NOT shrink them.

but it does

No it doesn't.

Also, can anyone suggest the best program with the least fiddling needed?

No, everyone is different and 'best' has no meaning.

Sorry, not trying to be awkward, but if your files, if they are movies, are being converted using the H264 video codec, are coming out at 100MB then it's obvious your video bitrate setting is far too low.
Are you using a bitrate value? (what bitrate?) or constant quality value? (what value?)

[jagabo]

Use Handbrake or Vidcoder. Set the rate factor to 0. That will be the best quality.

[Cauptain]

Vidcoder Beta:




Claudio

[magnu]

I've tried to compress some MKVs that were copied from DVD with MakeMKV, & the size of each file is around 700-900MBs.

That may be the case but you never told us anything about that: codec? etc.

I've now been trying to convert them to x264 (h264) using the best settings possible

Best has no meaning, 'best' to you is not 'best' to someone else.

they are turning out around 100MBs each

OK that sounds quite small for a movie (I'm guessing movie).

I've tried with 4 different programs (including Handbrake, DVDFab, & VidCoder), but they are still around the same size.

It's not a problem with the program.

I had already used MakeMKV (My understanding of it is that it's not supposed to shrink them, but it does)?

No, MakeMKV does NOT shrink them.

but it does

No it doesn't.

Also, can anyone suggest the best program with the least fiddling needed?

No, everyone is different and 'best' has no meaning.

Sorry, not trying to be awkward, but if your files, if they are movies, are being converted using the H264 video codec, are coming out at 100MB then it's obvious your video bitrate setting is far too low.
Are you using a bitrate value? (what bitrate?) or constant quality value? (what value?)

With MakeMKV, I completely forgot the the files (which are all 25 minute TV episodes) were altered after being made MKV. The audio was PCM I think, & I converted it to AC3. This reduced the file sizes Also, when I said about saving them at the best quality what I meant was, as with Handbrake, using the High Profile setting with no alterations.

[magnu]

Use Handbrake or Vidcoder. Set the rate factor to 0. That will be the best quality.

Doesn't that not just keep it the same size as the original?

[jagabo]

Use Handbrake or Vidcoder. Set the rate factor to 0. That will be the best quality.

Doesn't that not just keep it the same size as the original?

It will be much bigger than an MPEG 2 DVD source. But it's the highest quality.

But my real point is that you need to specify what you mean by "best settings". Personally, for DVD sources, I usually use x264 at CRF 18 and the Slow preset. Maybe tuning for grain, film, or animation, depending on the source. I find that to be a reasonable compromise of file size, quality, and encoding time.

[magnu]

Use Handbrake or Vidcoder. Set the rate factor to 0. That will be the best quality.

Doesn't that not just keep it the same size as the original?

It will be much bigger than an MPEG 2 DVD source. But it's the highest quality.

But it defeats the purpose of converting to x264.

[jagabo]

Use Handbrake or Vidcoder. Set the rate factor to 0. That will be the best quality.

Doesn't that not just keep it the same size as the original?

It will be much bigger than an MPEG 2 DVD source. But it's the highest quality.

But it defeats the purpose of converting to x264.

It depends on your reason for converting. I added some more practical information to my previous post.

[magnu]

Use Handbrake or Vidcoder. Set the rate factor to 0. That will be the best quality.

Doesn't that not just keep it the same size as the original?

It will be much bigger than an MPEG 2 DVD source. But it's the highest quality.

But my real point is that you need to specify what you mean by "best settings". Personally, for DVD sources, I usually use x264 at CRF 18 and the Slow preset. Maybe tuning for grain, film, or animation, depending on the source. I find that to be a reasonable compromise of file size, quality, and encoding time.

Whereabouts is the Slow preset (It's ok, I found it)?

[jagabo]

By the way, video varies in its compressibility. There can be a 10 fold difference it bitrate required to maintain qualitiy depending on the nature of the video. Cartoon with very little detail and no noise can be compressed to quite small file sizes without losing quality. High action content, with lots of motion, billowing smoke, flickering fire/lights, etc. will require much higher bitrates.

Note bitrate and file size are directly proportional. In fact, the definition of bitrate is stream size divided by running time.

[Cauptain]

It will be much bigger than an MPEG 2 DVD source. But it's the highest quality.

But it defeats the purpose of converting to x264.[/QUOTE]





Claudio

[jagabo]

Whereabouts is the Slow preset?

It's on the Video tab when H.264 (x264) is selected as the codec. Move the Encoder Preset slider left/right to select different presets. In general, the slower the preset the smaller the size and the higher the quality. Tuning is there too.

It's also important that you use the correct filtering for your source. But that's a big discussion.

[Cauptain]

Whereabouts is the Slow preset?

Claudio

[Cornucopia]

You haven't given us any indication about running times, so we have no way of knowing whether 700, 900, or 100MB is appropriate or not. Same with content. No clue of complexity, which greatly determines compressibility.

Don't know what your endgame is for these files (I would assume some kind of consumer media player playback), but IIWY I'd go back to square one and rip the DVDs again to their constituent MPEGs and cut out the middle man so you know for a fact you only have ONE re-encoding stage.
Then target your files either for bitrate value or quality value, depending on application. Then, assuming you have known what you are doing with tool settings, live with the result.

My guess is that there may be other encode stages you are not telling us about, or are aware of. Or that these are short clips.

Scott

[magnu]

You haven't given us any indication about running times, so we have no way of knowing whether 700, 900, or 100MB is appropriate or not. Same with content. No clue of complexity, which greatly determines compressibility.

Don't know what your endgame is for these files (I would assume some kind of consumer media player playback), but IIWY I'd go back to square one and rip the DVDs again to their constituent MPEGs and cut out the middle man so you know for a fact you only have ONE re-encoding stage.
Then target your files either for bitrate value or quality value, depending on application. Then, assuming you have known what you are doing with tool settings, live with the result.

My guess is that there may be other encode stages you are not telling us about, or are aware of. Or that these are short clips.

Scott

I did mention earlier that each video is 25 minutes in length. They are old episodes of TV shows, which I'm converting so as to replace my DVDs which are taking up space. They are 60's B&W TV, and there's little in the way of fast action movements.

[jagabo]

When using Rate Factor based encoding the setting that has the largest effect on size and quality is the Rate Factor. The lower it is set the higher the quality and the bigger the file. With an x264 rate factor of 18 it is pretty hard to tell the original from the source at normal playback speed. Around 12 it's difficult to see a difference even with A/B switching of enlarged still frames. At 0 you get lossless encoding (and gigantic file sizes). A typtical online streaming video may somewhere in the mid 20's.

Secondary effects are from the encoding presets. Ultrafast and superfast use only the least effective compression techniques. They are meant for speed, not high compression. From veryfast on up there's not a huge difference if files size, but quality increases a bit.

And, of course, you can tune many individual settings manually if you know what you're doing. But be careful: many devices cannot handle all possible settings of h.264. You may need to limit settings like max consecutive b-frames, max reference frames, max bitrate, etc. You can use the Profile/Level settings to help with this.

Basically, if the exact file size is not critical, use Rate Factor based encoding with a value you find acceptable. Then set the preset as slow as you can stand. A 25 minute video might encode in 2 or 3 minutes at the veryfast preset, but take an hour at the placebo preset. The latter will be a little smaller (maybe 20 percent) and will have a little better visual quality. It's up to you to decide what compromise of speed, quality, and file size is best for you.

If exact file size is critical, for example you need to compress a 2 hour movie to fit on a 700 MB CD, use 2-pass variable bitrate encoding. Again, at the slowest preset you can stand. This gives you a known file size but unknown quality. But you know it's the best quality you can get for that video at that file size (and the other settings you used).

In short, use bitrate based encoding when you need a specific size. Use rate factor based encoding when you want to be assured of the quality. They deliver the same quality at the same file size.