Converting old VHS to PC via USB converter - help please

[CptJack]

Hi gents,

I’m a novice PC user - bought myself a VHS to USB converter thingy off eBay to convert my VHS tapes to PC, works reasonably well with normal VHS tapes but home movies made from my old video camera are having problems being converted.

Best way to describe the problem is a lot of “choppy” and “flickering” on the created video file - its like someone is opening and closing the shutter of a camera..not sure why that is the case. The VHS ‘s play fine on the TV so not sure why this is happening when I use the video grabber software..crappy software perhaps?

Is there a better software / hardware I need to try and make this work? The flickering makes the video file on the PC unwatchable..PC is only a few years old running a GTX960...suggestions?

Many Thanks
CptJack

[johnmeyer]

I have transferred thousands of hours of VHS. I have tried all sorts of capture cards and devices, and was able to get most of them to work, but with one exception, I would always "lose the recipe" and what used to work, would suddenly start giving me problems.

The one absolutely bulletproof "never fail" method of transferring analog video to the PC is to use a DV or Digital 8 camera with 1394/Firewire output (or a dedicated DV transfer device, like some of the old Canopous units), and then use a Firewire card in the PC, running Scenalyzer (a.k.a. SCLive) as the capture software.

DV has a somewhat limited color space compared to other codecs, but this doesn't matter because VHS color is awful to begin with. DV also produces a little more macroblocking than more modern codecs, but again, with a VHS source, you'll never notice this.

The plus side is that not only does the video (and audio) always transfer perfectly, but DV is, by a wide margin, the easiest video format to edit. Timeline performance is fantastic, and most NLE's will let you do "cuts-only" editing (to cut out bad stuff and also rearrange your clips) without having to do any re-encoding.

Your older PC is almost certainly not a part of the problem. I still have PCs from around 2002 and they do SD analog video transfer just fine.

If you don't want to change your hardware, and simply want to get the existing rig working, you need to provide exact information on the USB converter you are using, and also post a short clip which shows the "choppy" and "flickering" artifacts. Those terms can describe different things, and the only way to know what problem you are trying to solve is to actually see it.

[LMotlow]

The one absolutely bulletproof "never fail" method of transferring analog video to the PC is to use a DV or Digital 8 camera with 1394/Firewire output (or a dedicated DV transfer device, like some of the old Canopous units), and then use a Firewire card in the PC, running Scenalyzer (a.k.a. SCLive) as the capture software.

It['s really amazing that again and again you, supposedly someone from a pro working environment, can;'tm do anything as simple as make a successful lossless capture with a simple USB device such as a VC500 through Virtualdub. Millions of people the world over have been doing it for decades, and they come to the task with a consipicuous lack of the hotshot credentials you keep touting for yourself. Yet you insist that the best way is to take a quality hit with one of those inappropriate Canopus cards to a format that was never designed for post-production or conversion work.

This thread is a repeat of thousands of thread just like it. Gets pretty tiresome after a while.

[johnmeyer]

The one absolutely bulletproof "never fail" method of transferring analog video to the PC is to use a DV or Digital 8 camera with 1394/Firewire output (or a dedicated DV transfer device, like some of the old Canopous units), and then use a Firewire card in the PC, running Scenalyzer (a.k.a. SCLive) as the capture software.

It['s really amazing that again and again you, supposedly someone from a pro working environment, can;'tm do anything as simple as make a successful lossless capture with a simple USB device such as a VC500 through Virtualdub. Millions of people the world over have been doing it for decades, and they come to the task with a consipicuous lack of the hotshot credentials you keep touting for yourself. Yet you insist that the best way is to take a quality hit with one of those inappropriate Canopus cards to a format that was never designed for post-production or conversion work.

This thread is a repeat of thousands of thread just like it. Gets pretty tiresome after a while.

So does your haughty attitude. I am simply trying to help the person. By contrast, in your wonderfully warm response I just quoted, as everyone can read for themselves, you did absolutely nothing whatsoever to help.

Nothing.

[JVRaines]

Best way to describe the problem is a lot of “choppy” and “flickering” on the created video file - its like someone is opening and closing the shutter of a camera..not sure why that is the case. The VHS ‘s play fine on the TV so not sure why this is happening when I use the video grabber software..crappy software perhaps?

Digital converters are much fussier about the input signal than your TV. Televisions have always been designed to roll with the punches they may receive from diverse sources.

You are probably getting bugged by timing errors. The canonical remedy is to use one of the recommended DVD recorders as a pass-through device between the VCR and the converter. You'll find lots of advice in the Capturing section of the forum.

[LMotlow]

The one absolutely bulletproof "never fail" method of transferring analog video to the PC is to use a DV or Digital 8 camera with 1394/Firewire output (or a dedicated DV transfer device, like some of the old Canopous units), and then use a Firewire card in the PC, running Scenalyzer (a.k.a. SCLive) as the capture software.

It['s really amazing that again and again you, supposedly someone from a pro working environment, can;'tm do anything as simple as make a successful lossless capture with a simple USB device such as a VC500 through Virtualdub. Millions of people the world over have been doing it for decades, and they come to the task with a consipicuous lack of the hotshot credentials you keep touting for yourself. Yet you insist that the best way is to take a quality hit with one of those inappropriate Canopus cards to a format that was never designed for post-production or conversion work.

This thread is a repeat of thousands of thread just like it. Gets pretty tiresome after a while.

So does your haughty attitude. I am simply trying to help the person. By contrast, in your wonderfully warm response I just quoted, as everyone can read for themselves, you did absolutely nothing whatsoever to help.

Nothing.

You were worse, led him down the path to the usual DV crap, and I can see you further leading him like you've led other noobs through hoops and flaming circles so that they show up after 6 months of angst-ridden Avisynth with a piece of over filtered nonsense that looks as if was carved in plastic. But I digress. This isn't about quality anyway, it's "If It Moves and makes Sounds, You Done Good". I'll let the original poster find out for himself. Far be it from me to repeat those thousands of previous posts I mentioned, the reader isn't likely to go there anyway. Just wants a quick answer about a problem with no-name unidentified hardware, and JVRaines just posted an answer above -- which will probably be more help than wrecking VHS source with a Canopus.

@ CptJack, to be more precise and helpful, what kind of "converter" did you get off eBay? Can you be a little more specific? How are you playing these tapes? You see, when you have problems such as you described it means you did something you weren't supposed to do with VHS tape capturing. Maybe you could help us a little and give more information so we can be more helpful than asking you to waste your money and time on methods that were not designed primarily for VHS capture. As has been suggested, you might be better off with a good used DVD recorder that has the required tbc circuitry and which would get you something you can play on a device other than your PC alone. Many computer makers don't even support DV anymore. It's playable only on a PC. Smart TV's and set top players won't play it, and it's not recognized by the internet. You won't be doing a lot of post-capture processing or fancy DV conversions to other formats anyway, so it looks like a good recorder is your most convenient choice. DVD and MPEG are universally playable.

Let us know what you plan for the final destination use and format of your VHS originals.

[CptJack]

Hi thanks for the responses.

1. The brand of USB Video and Audio Grabber that I purchased is DIGITECH COMPUTER - tbh its looks like a generic unit made in China but it looks exactly like the VC500 device, 4 cords at one end and a USB at the other end.

2. “The one absolutely bulletproof "never fail" method of transferring analog video to the PC is to use a DV or Digital 8 camera with 1394/Firewire output (or a dedicated DV transfer device, like some of the old Canopous units), and then use a Firewire card in the PC, running Scenalyzer (a.k.a. SCLive) as the capture software”

My video card doesn’t have a FireWire input - only HDMI and another format which I’m not familiar with. Could you perhaps direct me to a post or explanation of what this process involves? I have an old Digital 8 camera somewhere but not sure how to use it to do the transfer. Would I need to plug the Video output (from the VHS that usually goes into the TV) into the Digital 8 camera so my VHS plays on the Digital 8 screen and record that onto the DV tape? Then transfer from the DV tape to PC via my current setup?

[LMotlow]

1. The brand of USB Video and Audio Grabber that I purchased is DIGITECH COMPUTER - tbh its looks like a generic unit made in China but it looks exactly like the VC500 device, 4 cords at one end and a USB at the other end.

Oh. So instead of getting the real VC500 that has been tested and recommended by several expert users in this and other forums, you figured you could get one of dozens of cheap Chinese copies and you know how they were made and the origin of the processing chips used inside. Considering that the original VC500 isn't what you'd call a major financial investment, I'm curious about the logic behind your choice and what you expected.

2. “The one absolutely bulletproof "never fail" method of transferring analog video to the PC is to use a DV or Digital 8 camera with 1394/Firewire output (or a dedicated DV transfer device, like some of the old Canopous units), and then use a Firewire card in the PC, running Scenalyzer (a.k.a. SCLive) as the capture software”

Who told you that?

Let us know what you intend to do with your DV captures, how you'll clean up the VHS noise and DV compression artifacts and other defects, and how you will share and play your DV videos. Meanwhile it sounds as if you need a good, working frame-level external tbc. What you describe is either playback errors in your capture chain or, more likely, false copy protection signals that require a frame tbc to correct.

Is there a better software / hardware I need to try and make this work? The flickering makes the video file on the PC unwatchable..PC is only a few years old running a GTX960...suggestions?

Suggest you avoid the software that came with the cheap card. Get a real VC500 and use either VirtualDub or AmarecTV to get a lossless capture that you can really clean, edit, and work with. Otherwise if you don't intend to clean up analog source defects I'd suggest investing in a good used DVD recorder, preferably one with an LSI processing chip such as the Panasonic DMR-ES20. But using a digital camera for playback will give you lossy DV problems anyway unless you have an analog pass-thru on that camera.

[johnmeyer]

My video card doesn’t have a FireWire input - only HDMI and another format which I’m not familiar with. Could you perhaps direct me to a post or explanation of what this process involves? I have an old Digital 8 camera somewhere but not sure how to use it to do the transfer. Would I need to plug the Video output (from the VHS that usually goes into the TV) into the Digital 8 camera so my VHS plays on the Digital 8 screen and record that onto the DV tape? Then transfer from the DV tape to PC via my current setup?

First of all, you should obviously try to get your current hardware to work, if you can. I don't have direct experience with your unit so I can't help with that.

If you want to try using the Digital 8 camcorder to do the conversion, I'll give you a quick overview of how to do that. What I suggest is that you convert 5-10 minutes of material that you were able to transfer with your existing method, and which does not have any of the flicker problems. Then do your own comparison to see for yourself whether the transfer done this way is markedly inferior, or whether it is pretty close in quality. This forum seems to attract people who seem to think that the more stridently they state their opinions, the more respected they will be. My advice is to ignore the bombast and try to get to the facts, always judging for yourself. (I took the advice of several forum members who PM'd me and suggested I do as they have: block the noise because it is nothing more than aggravation without compensation.)

So, here is my explanation of the process.

The transfer is simple:

1. Find the analog video and audio inputs for your camcorder. Some camcorders require a special cable or breakout box which hopefully you still have in your box of parts. If your camcorder and VCR both have S-video connections, definitely use those, rather than the round, yellow RCA connector.

2. Find the settings in your camcorder for "pass through". In this mode the camera will digitize the video and audio coming in from the VCR, and will send it out the 1394/Firewire port. The video from the camcorder itself will not be shown when in this mode.

3. Put a 1394/Firewire board in your computer. This is actually best done in an older computer, running XP because some people have reported problems getting 1394 to work in newer versions of Windows. 1394 boards are cheap, although I don't know if you can still buy them new, or if you have to go to eBay.

4. Download Scenalyzer. It is now free. It is absolutely marvelous software. Use this to control the capture.

5. Capture the video. DV video consumes 13 GB / hour.

6. Compare the DV video with what you captured with your existing capture setup, and report back here on what differences you see, and whether you strongly prefer one over the other.

7. Finally, try capturing one of the problematic tapes and see if you still get the same flicker, or whether this workflow solves the problem.

I make no claim that DV will look better, although I'll bet it looks pretty close to what you already captured and, depending on the exact nature of your existing capture, you may see no differences. What I DO claim is that, if the flicker is the result of your capture hardware, and not the VCR itself (and you say the video looks fine on your monitor while capturing), that this process will provide a consistent result without the massive artifacts you describe.

I hope that helps.

[CptJack]

Gents,

Thanks for the advice.

After a lot of running around and failed attempts trying to get this to work with my current setup I purchased a VHS—>DVD recorder off Craigslist for 35 bucks!

Converted the VHS to DVD and then used that (new) DVD as the source file into my USB grabber and into my PC

One question tho..the DVD only plays in the newly purchased VHS/DVD Recorder - it will not play on any other DVD player and when i load it into my computers DVD drive it sees the CD as a blank CD...very weird anyone have an answer for this? Not sure what format this VHS/DVD Recorder is writing onto the new CD but the format seems specific for that machine only?

[hech54]

There should be a function on the recorder's menu to "finalize" the DVD in the machine after you are done recording to it.
Every manufacturer has a different term for "finalize", but finalize seems to be the most common.

[johnmeyer]

If you are going to edit DVD files, consider getting VideoRedo because it can edit them without having to re-encode, if you are only doing cuts.

[TimA-C]

I *think* Videoredo might be able to read unfinalised DVD-RWs as well? I think that was one of the many reasons I switched to VRD back in the days of my Liteon DVD recorders. Can't see the point in recording with DVD recorder and then capture from the recorded disc? You've already done the analogue to digital conversion, why convert back to analogue only to capture and reconvert back to digital again?

[lordsmurf]

I am simply trying to help

You were worse, led him down the path to the usual DV crap.

johnmeyer is a film guy. His Avisynth work for film is pretty impressive. He and I have communicated for at least 12 years now, and I respect his knowledge in the realm of film and Avisynth.

Now I do think his analog/tape knowledge is a bit more consumer-ish, lower end. But I saw his post as a "what I did over the years" sort of post. More historical than current advice. I completely dislike DV, but I'm not sure I'd rake him over the coals for it. I've gotten to where I think DV has killed itself finally. Installing Firewire cards is anywhere from nuisance to impossible, and few people try to use it anymore for that reason alone. And good riddance. Anybody building legacy boxes will opt for something like ATI AIW, maybe even Matrox/Osprey/etc, while everybody else goes for USB. And with USB, we have some decent lossless capturing options.

1. The brand of USB Video and Audio Grabber that I purchased is DIGITECH COMPUTER - tbh its looks like a generic unit made in China but it looks exactly like the VC500 device, 4 cords at one end and a USB at the other end.

I'm about 80% sure that's an EZcap/Easycap (EZcrap) clone, and maybe 20% that it's actually using "grabber" chips (VC500). Those Chinese companies reuse too many parts for appearance alone to be the decider. Until you look at the drivers closer, or even crack open the USB case, hard to tell.

2. “The one absolutely bulletproof "never fail" method of transferring analog video to the PC is to use a DV or Digital 8 camera with 1394/Firewire output (or a dedicated DV transfer device, like some of the old Canopous units), and then use a Firewire card in the PC, running Scenalyzer (a.k.a. SCLive) as the capture software”

No. DV transfer is no easier than any other capture method. In some ways, even worse.

If you are going to edit DVD files, consider getting VideoRedo because it can edit them without having to re-encode, if you are only doing cuts.

I've always preferred Womble to VideoReDo.

There should be a function on the recorder's menu to "finalize" the DVD in the machine after you are done recording to it.
Every manufacturer has a different term for "finalize", but finalize seems to be the most common.

You know, I don't think I've ever seen a different term used, other than "finalize".

[johnmeyer]

I've always preferred Womble to VideoReDo.

Yes, for MPEG-2 (DVDs) I too use Womble much more often. It is bulletproof with MPEG-2. The interface is a little strange, whereas VideoRedo has an interface that is a little more conventional.

Despite using Womble much more, I usually recommend VideoRedo, not only because it's interface is easier to understand, but because it also handles h.264 material, so I can use it for just about everything. My version of Womble only handles MPEG-2.

[JVRaines]

I have made several hundred conversions to DV, and I have to side with lordsmurf. The Canopus converter was pretty good handling most sources and never a problem with audio sync. But when I got into lossless conversion, I could clearly see the difference in color rendition. If you really want to show up DV's shortcomings, try a medium shot of chain link fence. The aliasing is nothing short of psychedelic.

[hech54]

You know, I don't think I've ever seen a different term used, other than "finalize".

Ever owned a Cyberhome recorder?