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  1. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    Only for those sample videos. They're also 720x576 square-pixel. *shrug*

    Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    How were you cleaning up the VHS drop outs/errors in the 1982_GEE file?
    ReplaceFramesMC(), and a script from lordsmurf:
    Code:
    function FixRipsA2(clip c)
    {
    SeparateFields(c)
    a=last
    a
    clense(reduceflicker=false).merge(last,0.5).clense(reduceflicker=false)
    mot=removegrain(11,0).removegrain(20,0).DepanEstimate(range=2)
    take2=a.depaninterleave(mot,prev=2,next=2,subpixel=2)
    clean1=take2.TMedian2().selectevery(5,2)
    
    sup1 = clean1.minblur(1).removegrain(11,0).removegrain(11,0)
     \           .mt_lutxy(clean1,"x 1 + y < x 2 + x 1 - y > x 2 - y ? ?",U=2,V=2)
     \           .msuper(pel=2,sharp=0)
    sup2 = a.msuper(pel=2,levels=1,sharp=2)
    
    bv22=sup1.manalyse(isb=true, truemotion=false,global=true,delta=2,blksize=16,overlap=8,search=5,searchparam=4,DCT=5)
    bv21=sup1.manalyse(isb=true, truemotion=false,global=true,delta=1,blksize=16,overlap=8,search=5,searchparam=4,DCT=5)
    fv21=sup1.manalyse(isb=false,truemotion=false,global=true,delta=1,blksize=16,overlap=8,search=5,searchparam=4,DCT=5)
    fv22=sup1.manalyse(isb=false,truemotion=false,global=true,delta=2,blksize=16,overlap=8,search=5,searchparam=4,DCT=5)
    
    interleave(a.mcompensate(sup2,fv22),a.mcompensate(sup2,fv21),a,a.mcompensate(sup2,bv21),a.mcompensate(sup2,bv22))
    TMedian2().selectevery(5,2)
    
    sup3 = last.msuper(pel=2,sharp=2)
    bv33=sup3.manalyse(isb=true, truemotion=false,global=true,delta=3,blksize=8,overlap=4,search=5,searchparam=4,DCT=5)
    bv32=sup3.manalyse(isb=true, truemotion=false,global=true,delta=2,blksize=8,overlap=4,search=5,searchparam=4,DCT=5)
    bv31=sup3.manalyse(isb=true, truemotion=false,global=true,delta=1,blksize=8,overlap=4,search=5,searchparam=4,DCT=5)
    fv31=sup3.manalyse(isb=false,truemotion=false,global=true,delta=1,blksize=8,overlap=4,search=5,searchparam=4,DCT=5)
    fv32=sup3.manalyse(isb=false,truemotion=false,global=true,delta=2,blksize=8,overlap=4,search=5,searchparam=4,DCT=5)
    fv33=sup3.manalyse(isb=false,truemotion=false,global=true,delta=3,blksize=8,overlap=4,search=5,searchparam=4,DCT=5)
    
    last.mdegrain3(sup3,bv31,fv31,bv32,fv32,bv33,fv33,thSAD=499)
    
    Interleave() 
    Weave()
    return last
    }
    
    
    function MinBlur(clip clp, int r, int "uv")
    {
    uv   = default(uv,3)
    uv2  = (uv==2) ? 1 : uv
    rg4  = (uv==3) ? 4 : -1
    rg11 = (uv==3) ? 11 : -1
    rg20 = (uv==3) ? 20 : -1
    medf = (uv==3) ? 1 : -200
    
    RG11D = (r==0) ? mt_makediff(clp,clp.sbr(),U=uv2,V=uv2)
     \    : (r==1) ? mt_makediff(clp,clp.removegrain(11,rg11),U=uv2,V=uv2)
     \    : (r==2) ? mt_makediff(clp,clp.removegrain(11,rg11).removegrain(20,rg20),U=uv2,V=uv2)
     \    :          mt_makediff(clp,clp.removegrain(11,rg11).removegrain(20,rg20).removegrain(20,rg20),U=uv2,V=uv2)
    RG4D  = (r<=1) ? mt_makediff(clp,clp.removegrain(4,rg4),U=uv2,V=uv2)
     \    : (r==2) ? mt_makediff(clp,clp.medianblur(2,2*medf,2*medf),U=uv2,V=uv2)
     \    :          mt_makediff(clp,clp.medianblur(3,3*medf,3*medf),U=uv2,V=uv2)
    DD    = mt_lutxy(RG11D,RG4D,"x 128 - y 128 - * 0 < 128 x 128 - abs y 128 - abs < x y ? ?",U=uv2,V=uv2)
    clp.mt_makediff(DD,U=uv,V=uv)
    Weave()
    return(last)
    }
    
    # median of 5 clips from helpers.avs by G-force
    function Median2(clip "input_1", clip "input_2", clip "input_3", clip "input_4", clip "input_5", string "chroma")
    {
    chroma = default(chroma,"process") #default is "process". Alternates: "copy first" or "copy second"
    #MEDIAN(i1,i3,i5)
    Interleave(input_1,input_3,input_5)
    chroma == "process" ? Clense(reduceflicker=false) : Clense(reduceflicker=false,grey=true)
    m1 = selectevery(3,1)
    #MAX(MIN(i1,i3,i5),i2)
    m2  = input_1.MT_Logic(input_3,"min",chroma=chroma).MT_Logic(input_5,"min",chroma=chroma).MT_Logic(input_2,"max",chroma=chroma)
    #MIN(MAX(i1,i3,i5),i4)
    m3  = input_1.MT_Logic(input_3,"max",chroma=chroma).MT_Logic(input_5,"max",chroma=chroma).MT_Logic(input_4,"min",chroma=chroma)
    Interleave(m1,m2,m3)
    chroma == "process" ? Clense(reduceflicker=false) : Clense(reduceflicker=false,grey=true)
    selectevery(3,1)
    chroma == "copy first" ? last.MergeChroma(input_1) : chroma == "copy second" ? last.MergeChroma(input_2) : last
    Return(last)
    }
    
    function TMedian2(clip c) {
    Median2(c.selectevery(1,-2), c.selectevery(1,-1), c, c.selectevery(1,1), c.selectevery(1,2) ) }
    It's way too aggressive for a lot of the movement going on, so I've had to manually cut between two versions of the footage: one with that script and one without, cropping where needed.
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    Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
    Originally Posted by raffriff42 View Post
    >and backups as daily backups would mean I spend more time backing up than working.
    Overnight backups are a thing.
    Someone mentioned 14-18 hours per backup earlier.
    I gave ~14-18 hours as an example of real world backup time for ~6TB of data

    "It takes ~14-18 hours to backup 6TB of data from from drive to another, ~100-130MB/s in my USB 3.0 enclosure, slightly quicker with both drives on internal SATA. This is in line with others report online. The bottleneck being the mechanical nature of regular HDDs. Seagate Archive drives take about 50% longer because of their slow write speeds."

    I also stated that if you generated "several terabytes of data a day" (meaning, maybe 3-4TB), you would be able to backup that overnight (~7-9 hours). Unless, I'm missing something in your video editing process, I can't see any way to generate 6TB of data in a home environment in a day. Even 3-4TB a day would be very unlikely.

    "Assuming you're generating several terabytes of data a day (given capture and editing time), you could set backup the drive overnight or upon completion of a project, set up that drive for backup while using a third drive for the next project. Rinse and repeat."

    If data backup speed is a concern, there are docks that allow direct HDD to HDD copy or even better (since I like to monitor the backup progress), you could get an spare/older PC and run your backups on that. This has an additional advantage since transfer speed slows down with other activity on the PC. Also, make sure it has USB 3.0 or 3.1 ports (USB 2.0 is significantly slower). There are USB 3.0 / USB 3.1 add in cards if necessary.

    overwriting the one backup repeatedly doesn't seem ideal either
    >as you're basically deleting your backup every day and if a file gets
    >corrupted without you noticing or something...

    That's why you need at least 2 backups in rotation (plus the original data)
    Does that not just give you one extra backup period before you run into the same problem, though?
    Why would you be deleting your backups at all? A backup should be an archive of your final file(s). You can add additional files to the drive, but don't delete the "archived" files.

    When you do your file transfer, use a program that verifies the file data after transfer. Teracopy can be set to do this when copying and ViceVersa can do this with two existing files. Both programs are free and a valuable addition to any PC.

    If you're talking about backups of your work in progress files, then I suggest you work on 'one project behind'. When you complete a capture (which takes say, 3 hours realtime), set that data for backup (this is where a second PC or copy dock is handy) while you start on your next capture. Within the 3 hours it takes to complete your next capture, your first backup should be complete. If you want, you can do this for each major step in your workflow, ensuring you have a temporary backup if something should go wrong with your work file(s).


    You haven't discussed cost, but you do realize that this is going to be a costly project? As mentioned, the lowest cost per TB (at least in the U.S.) are 8TB external drives at <$20/TB. 8TB internal drives are ~$25-30/TB. Larger drives (10TB and 12TB) are ~$35/TB for internals and Segate as has a10TB external for $300, $30/TB.

    As stated in another post, you're looking at ~160TB of storage (based on your 8TB for 5% completion) for your project, giving you a minimum cost of ~$3200, plus another ~$3200 for backup to HDD, ~1800 if you use LTO tapes. [Edit: Should be - Double the backup cost for a second (absolutely necessary), backup. Not - "Double or triple the backup cost for a second (absolutely necessary) or third (highly recommended) backup."]

    I don't know much about cloud storage costs, but 160TB is far beyond any free solutions. And the time to upload that much data would be tremendous!
    Last edited by lingyi; 17th Apr 2018 at 23:23. Reason: Clarity, grammar
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  3. Thanks for posting your before & after samples. They were better than I was expecting, so maybe you're not quite as mad as I'd first thought!

    I think you said you'd got at least three hundred 1.5 - 3hr tapes to work through? You're capturing to Lagarith which would work out to, what, 50 - 60Gb per 3hr tape? I get that you're tidying up the beginnings and ends of the ad breaks, but you could still leave yourself a 30-40 second margin and edit out the bulk of each ad break in Vdub in step 2 which, from my own experience, would almost certainly save a few Gbs each tape (depending upon number and length of ad breaks). Multiply those savings by 300 . . .

    Do you really need to be able to work on these files in Premiere on both Mac & Windows? Stick with one or the other and save yourself the Massive uncompressed intermediates from Vdub & Avisynth in step 3, and keep with a lossless codec that Premiere works properly with on whichever platform you've chosen to stick with.

    Only you can decide how valuable these recordings are to you, but it does seem a bit crazy to be looking to allocate THAT much storage space for VHS caps? I think you're either going to have to just bite the bullet and pay for all the storage now (and hope that by the time you have to start replacing it the cost per Tb will have come down dramatically) or be a bit more realistic with what you keep.

    Let us know how you get on. Have fun!
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  4. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    You haven't discussed cost, but you do realize that this is going to be a costly project?
    I figured that. What I haven't figured out is the most cost-effective option, the most space- and connection-efficient option (ie the fewest number of individual drives that need to be plugged in), etc.

    Do you really need to be able to work on these files in Premiere on both Mac & Windows?
    Me, personally? No, I'm quite happy working in Windows. I'm not everyone though.

    Only you can decide how valuable these recordings are to you
    I'm still not everyone though.
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  5. Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
    Do you really need to be able to work on these files in Premiere on both Mac & Windows?
    Me, personally? No, I'm quite happy working in Windows. I'm not everyone though.

    Only you can decide how valuable these recordings are to you
    I'm still not everyone though.
    Yes, but it sounds like you're doing the work and paying for the storage . . . ?
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  6. Member
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    Another option I forgot about are internal removable drive cages like this: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16816215240

    You have the speed of SATA, with the ability to swap out drives (for external backup). This one is hot-swap capable (i.e. you can remove and change the drive(s) without turning the PC off). In addition, it fits three 3.5" in drives into the space of two 5.25 bays. There are also cages that fit four drives into the space of three bays.
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  7. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    So I'd need two spare 5.25" bays? Don't think I have that. Unless I remove my DVD drive I guess.
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  8. Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
    You can't find a lossless codec that Premiere on both Windows and Mac can use properly?
    Premiere is bad at YUV, apparently, but every lossless codec I'd seen mentioned prior to MagicYUV was one OS or the other. Haven't tried Magic yet, but I might give it a shot next time I get to that stage of the process.
    MagicYUV is treated as RGB too.

    It's not just PP - all NLE's treat "lossless" YUV codecs like lagarith , huffyuv, utvideo , etc... as RGB

    At least they used to. There is 1 alternative now , but that means upgrading from CS6.

    PP CC2018 decodes lossless x264 as YUV now (at least the Windows version does) . There is also a free, open source export plugin , voukoder that allows you to use libav libraries to export lossless x264 as well (and x265, nvenc and soon to be abunch of other stuff) for true lossless roundtrip

    x264 has many configuration options , decoding speed, encoding speed (e.g. if you wanted to use long GOP lossless, you'd cut the filesize probably down around 20-40%) . Intra etc... Many people would still prefer Intra, but if storage was becoming a big issue, interframe/temporal compression typically reduces lossless filesizes around 20-40% depending on content

    Another suggestion - do you really need lossless ? Near lossless would be good enough for most workflows. Cineform , prores, HQX etc... even x264 with low quantizer is "good enough" in most cases


    Export to uncompressed to bring into Premiere (needs to be compatible with both Mac and Windows, and properly treated as YUV by Premiere CS6)
    Be careful with this step. Not all types of uncompressed are handled properly in NLE's. YUV uncompressed fourcc's get converted to RGB. e.g. "YV12" from avisynth / vdub usually does, as does "YUY2". You need "UYVY" usually for windows editors and "2vuy" for mac for 8bit 4:2:2 versions
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    Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
    So I'd need two spare 5.25" bays? Don't think I have that. Unless I remove my DVD drive I guess.
    If you're using two of those bays for HDDs, when you insert the cage you'll gain an extra space for a third drive.
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  10. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=poisondeathray;2517669]
    Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
    MagicYUV is treated as RGB too.
    FFS.

    Another suggestion - do you really need lossless ? Near lossless would be good enough for most workflows. Cineform , prores, HQX etc... even x264 with low quantizer is "good enough" in most cases
    From VDub to Premiere? Probably not, TBH. On the other hand a non-AVI format means an extra step between VDub and PP, no?


    If you're using two of those bays for HDDs, when you insert the cage you'll gain an extra space for a third drive.
    Aren't HDDs in 3.5" bays? We're talking about the front-accessible things you'd stick a DVD drive in, aren't we? I have a BD drive, a DVD drive, and what appears to be a spare bay.

    I'm pretty sure this is my case.
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  11. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Yeah I have a 5.25 to 3.5 adapter for using a DVD drive bay as a HDD bay.
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  12. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    Further question about that three-drive bay thing: what about storing and keeping track of the internals after they're finished with?
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    Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
    Further question about that three-drive bay thing: what about storing and keeping track of the internals after they're finished with?
    For cataloging, I use Virtual Volumes View, that I just posted about here: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/388775-Catalog-and-print-HDD-content-offline. It allows you to view and search HDD content without the drive having to be in the PC or external case/dock.

    For storage, easiest and free would be to store them in the anti-static bags they came in and keep them in a box/case of your choice. For options designed for storage, these are some:

    Click image for larger version

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    Individual cases, some are designed to stack and lock together.

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    Multi-drive cases. This is what I use for my spare drives. This isn't stackable, but I think there are some that are

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    There are smaller and larger cases for fewer and more drives.

    All of these can accommodate the drives in anti-static bags (highly recommended).
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  14. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    I do have a couple spare internal drives floating around. Always stored in the bags, obviously, but then I just put them on a shelf because I have nothing else. Do those cases have names or something I can look up?

    Do internal drives get bigger than 8TB?

    Would it be better to go for something like this or like this?
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  15. Member
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    [QUOTE=koberulz;2517771]I do have a couple spare internal drives floating around. Always stored in the bags, obviously, but then I just put them on a shelf because I have nothing else. Do those cases have names or something I can look up?[QUOTE}

    Do a search for 'hard drive storage case' at Newegg or Amazon.


    Do internal drives get bigger than 8TB?
    In one of my posts above, I stated that there are 10 & 12TB drives are currently available:

    "You haven't discussed cost, but you do realize that this is going to be a costly project? As mentioned, the lowest cost per TB (at least in the U.S.) are 8TB external drives at <$20/TB. 8TB internal drives are ~$25-30/TB. Larger drives (10TB and 12TB) are ~$35/TB for internals and Segate as has a10TB external for $300, $30/TB."

    I've noticed over the past 3-4 years, large capacity (4TB+) internal drive prices been hovering around $25-35/TB. The additional cost over external drives may be worthwhile since you can typically get NAS or Enterprise drives (usually with longer, 3-5 year warranties) for the price. I don't recommend Seagate Archive drives (which may still be used in some Seagate externals), because as I've stated, they (by design) have a much slower write speed than regular drives.

    14TB drives have been announced, but aren't available to public yet, being reserved for or in tests at large data centers. When they become available to the public, they'll initially demand a high premium and probably settle in around the $30-35/TB range. I seem to recall reading reports of 16TB HDDs in development, but traditional HDD technology limits have or soon be reached. Larger than 16TB SSDs (currently up to 100TB) have been or are being developed, but aren't available to the general public and cost $1000's of dollars.

    Also, SSDs aren't suitable for backups since there has been at least one study that shows they're prone to data loss when not powered. Note it typically takes years, though the loss accelerates with heat. Also, unlike HDDs, where failure is mechanical or electronic and at least partial data recovery is usually possible (though very expensive), when a SSD fails it's usually total data loss and recovery is near impossible.


    Would it be better to go for something like this or like this?
    Your first link is to a two 5.25" bay to three 3.5" internal drive cage like I posted about above. Each drive is independent and can be removed and replaced with another drive without turning the PC off. One advantage to this is you could use one drive for capture and have two ready for backup. It would be possible to use one drive for capture/editing while performing a drive to drive backup with the other two, though you really want to keep any unnecessary activity (HDD or CPU) to a minimum while capturing or editing.

    What this would work well for is overnight backup. You could do a simultaneous backup to two drives at once, which I've found to be maybe 20-25% than swapping out drives. Note that the limitation is still limited by the throughput of the original (first) drive.

    Your second link is to an external USB 3.0 RAID 5 enclosure. Each drive is dependent upon the other. Raid 5 requires at least three drives (the drive in the link supports up to 5)

    My limited understanding of RAID is that RAID 5 reads are slightly faster than a single drive and since the write data (and parity) are spread across the drives, if one drive fails, the remaining drives will still function as though the missing drive is still there. The failed drive MUST be replaced (and the RAID rebuilt), because if a second drive fails (even during a rebuild), ALL data is lost.

    As many here have stated, RAID is not an alternative to regular backups. You still have to backup your data to another drive(s) because RAID rebuilds (which can take days) can fail and you'll possibly lose all data.

    The reason I posted (RAID 1 or 10/1+00) as an alternative is because you seem concerned about backup times. RAID 1 is a stopgap because it mirrors all data written to one drive on a second simultaneously. If one drive fails, you can still use the remaining drive (though you'll have to replace the failed drive and rebuild the RAID eventually). The catch is that RAID 1 requires two drives and because it's mirrored, your available drive space is equal to only one drive.

    Raid 10/1+0 requires four drives (with available drive space equal to two drives) because two drives are striped (with data written/read between them) and the second two drives are mirrors of the first two.


    I recently built a new PC and planned to install my multiple HDDs internally and in drive cages since I frequently use them for backups. However, I realized that I would save on electricity and drive use hours if I keep them in external cases (the Probox(s) I linked to) and turn them on only when I need them.

    I don't do video editing, but I do generate multi-gig files fairly often and my routine is:

    - Save my files to a fixed internal drive (You could save to a drive in a cage for easy removal. More about his below...)
    - Immediately (or overnight) copy the files to a second internal drive so I have a temporary backup
    - When I'm ready to move the file(s) to my backup drive(s), I place my backup drive(s) into a spare external case and perform the backup.

    In your case, I would use the 'one project behind' method I posted above:

    "If you're talking about backups of your work in progress files, then I suggest you work on 'one project behind'. When you complete a capture (which takes say, 3 hours realtime), set that data for backup (this is where a second PC or copy dock is handy) while you start on your next capture. Within the 3 hours it takes to complete your next capture, your first backup should be complete. If you want, you can do this for each major step in your workflow, ensuring you have a temporary backup if something should go wrong with your work file(s)."

    - Capture to the HDD in a drive cage (you could use a single bay cage as KarMa suggested)
    - Move the drive an external dock or enclosure connected to a separate PC (I recently got used small PC from Amazon for $100 (Core2Duo, 8GB RAM, Win 7)
    - Backup to 1 or 2 drives (ideal) while you're working on your next capture.

    This would require three drives in use at once (four if you're doing backups to two drives at once). Your capture drive doesn't have to 8TB. You could get slightly faster backup speeds (and possibly better captures) if you use a SSD for your capture drive. Also, if you use SSDs or 2.5" drives, you can get a 5.25" drive cage that will allow up to four 2.5" drive in one bay. You need to have enough SATA ports and power connections for each drive.
    Last edited by lingyi; 19th Apr 2018 at 21:54. Reason: Edit: Correct error - S/B "three drives in use at once (four if you're...
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  16. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
    . Larger than 16TB SSDs (currently up to 100TB) have been or are being developed, but aren't available to the general public and cost $1000's of dollars.
    When I can get a 16tb SSD for $999, my credit card is ready.
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  17. Originally Posted by koberulz View Post

    Another suggestion - do you really need lossless ? Near lossless would be good enough for most workflows. Cineform , prores, HQX etc... even x264 with low quantizer is "good enough" in most cases
    From VDub to Premiere? Probably not, TBH. On the other hand a non-AVI format means an extra step between VDub and PP, no?
    Why do you need vdub ? what sorts of things are you doing in vdub?

    vdub2 can export non AVI into mp4 directly , or there are other non vdub options like ffmpeg etc...

    x264 with low crf is also treated as YUV in older versions of premiere . That's what people used for 99.999% lossless YUV before CC2018. When you're around crf 1-5 that's much higher quality than even cineform filmscan2 or prores xq. If the latter are "good enough" for big budget studios, you would think something even higher in quality is good enough for most purposes. If you want to save a bit of space, use something like crf 6-12 with shorter GOP's (~ 1-2 sec). If you want more edit friendly , stick to intra, but for SD material you should be able to use short GOP's.
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  18. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    If you want to save a bit of space, use something like crf 6-12 with shorter GOP's (~ 1-2 sec)
    No B frames will make it more editor friendly. And --stitchable in case you want to append files later.

    <edit>
    And it's interlaced -- so don't forget --tff or --bff.
    </edit>
    Last edited by jagabo; 19th Apr 2018 at 23:00.
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  19. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    @lingyi: I'll read through all that a bit later when I have more time, but just briefly: I'm capturing using a laptop. I've already got a two-drive RAID enclosure, set as RAID0, to maximise cap speed (I also capture HD material for other projects). I then have to shift to my desktop for editing.

    @pdr, VDub a) turns the results of AviSynth into an actual video file and b) crops, denoises, etc.
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    Something just dawned on me. Are you working with the original capture file(s)? I rarely do any video editing, but any time I work with any type of large file or one that took me hours to complete, I always save a copy of the original first. Just curious since most of my posts deal with backups.
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  21. Originally Posted by koberulz View Post

    @pdr, VDub a) turns the results of AviSynth into an actual video file and b) crops, denoises, etc.
    Are you cropping, denoising in vdub itself, as in a vdub filter? or in the avs script ? If the latter, then you have more options; you can batch with ffmpeg for example

    But vdub2 / vdfm can export mp4 directly now too
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  22. Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
    Something just dawned on me. Are you working with the original capture file(s)? I rarely do any video editing, but any time I work with any type of large file or one that took me hours to complete, I always save a copy of the original first. Just curious since most of my posts deal with backups.
    Yes! Always have a backup copy of original if it's even a tiny bit important
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  23. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    @lingyi: Your earlier post mentions "drive cages" a few times. What are these? A quick Google shows they seem to just be enclosures, is it just a different term?

    The three-drive 5.25in bay thing claims '3TB drive compatibility' in some places, and '4TB drive compatibility' in others. Is this a max, or is there a difference between drives <4TB and drives >4TB, therefore this will accept any size of drive?

    It doesn't seem to explain much about which connectors I'd need available on my power supply/motherboard, either.
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  24. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    @lingyi: Your earlier post mentions "drive cages" a few times. What are these? A quick Google shows they seem to just be enclosures, is it just a different term?

    The three-drive 5.25in bay thing claims '3TB drive compatibility' in some places, and '4TB drive compatibility' in others. Is this a max, or is there a difference between drives <4TB and drives >4TB, therefore this will accept any size of drive?

    It doesn't seem to explain much about which connectors I'd need available on my power supply/motherboard, either.

    EDIT: @pdr: I often throw CCD at a tape from VDub, and much prefer to crop there than AviSynth.

    EDIT 2: JFC NewEgg wants $100 to ship me that 5.25" bay thing. That's absurd.
    Last edited by koberulz; 21st Apr 2018 at 14:11.
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    Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
    @lingyi: Your earlier post mentions "drive cages" a few times. What are these? A quick Google shows they seem to just be enclosures, is it just a different term?
    Yes, the "drive cage" I'm referring to is an internal HDD enclosure that can hold one or more HDDs in a tray or directly in a bay.


    The three-drive 5.25in bay thing claims '3TB drive compatibility' in some places, and '4TB drive compatibility' in others. Is this a max, or is there a difference between drives <4TB and drives >4TB, therefore this will accept any size of drive?
    There are technical differences between 3TB & 4TB HDDs that kept the limit of HDD size at 3TB for a while. However, 99% of the time, internal drive cage descriptions that state a 3TB or 4TB HDD size limit just haven't been updated to reflect support for the newest, largest HDD sizes. Check the comments on the page and they'll confirm that larger HDD sizes are compatible or not.

    Note that some external USB enclosures DO have a HDD size limit (check the comments on the page) because the USB interface may not have been updated to handle the larger HDD sizes. The Probox(es) I use don't have this issue. I'm currently using 8 & 10TB drives in mine.


    It doesn't seem to explain much about which connectors I'd need available on my power supply/motherboard, either.
    Image
    [Attachment 45294 - Click to enlarge]


    As shown above, you connect your SATA (one for each drive) and power connectors (in this case only two) to the back of the cage. This then interfaces with the internal connectors in the bay and are seen by the system as if they were connected directly to the motherboard.
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  26. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    Hmm. I don't think I have enough SATA ports on the motherboard for this...I have an H170 Gaming-3, and I've got a DVD drive, Blu drive, and three hard drives connected already. I'd have to swap out the DVD drive to fit the cage in anyway, but that still leaves me one short AFAIK.
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    There are add-on SATA cards for up to eight additional internal SATA ports. Some have external eSATA ports also. Here's a simple and cheap one with two internal ports. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124045&cm_re=pci_sata-_-16-1...-045-_-Product Be sure to get one that matches the speed of your available PCI-e slot. Some card won't work in a slower (PCI-e 1.0) or faster (PCI-e 4X or higher) slot.

    If you don't have enough SATA power connectors, there are splitters like this: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812400127&cm_re=sata_power_spli...-127-_-Product


    If you don't need three drive bays, as mentioned above, there are single drive cages like this:https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16816215323
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  28. If you do go down that route, don't forget to make sure that your PC's power supply is man enough for all those extra drives.
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  29. Everything I say is false koberulz's Avatar
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    How am I supposed to know that?
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  30. Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
    How am I supposed to know that?
    There are dozens of online calculators: you tell the calculator what components are in your computer build (e.g., how many disk drives), and it will tell you how many watts your power supply must be.
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