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  1. Member
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    Do all processors currently available from AMD and Intel suffer from the Meltdown and Spectre vulnerabilities? Why would anyone want to upgrade and buy such a processor?
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  2. Because the next issue of processors will have other or similar issues. There will be no end to hackers or governments trying to find ways to find vulnerability's in our computers. Governments do it for spy reasons, hackers do it for money or other reasons.
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    I don't agree with this point of view and this is why I will (probably) wait for the next generation of processors.
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    Originally Posted by kyrcy View Post
    Do all processors currently available from AMD and Intel suffer from the Meltdown and Spectre vulnerabilities? Why would anyone want to upgrade and buy such a processor?
    Meltdown doesn't affect AMD processors. Spectre vulnerabilities are present in all recent and current AMD and Intel processors.

    If someone truly needs a new PC, they may not be willing to wait until sometime in 2019 for new processors to be released with Meldown and Spectre fixes in silicon. I may be in that position myself.

    ...and there is another vulnerability for Intel CPUs that was made public recently, BranchScope, so yes, new vulnerabilities will probably emerge in the future.
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  5. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by kyrcy View Post
    Do all processors currently available from AMD and Intel suffer from the Meltdown and Spectre vulnerabilities? Why would anyone want to upgrade and buy such a processor?
    Meltdown doesn't affect AMD processors. Spectre vulnerabilities are present in all recent and current AMD and Intel processors.

    If someone truly needs a new PC, they may not be willing to wait until sometime in 2019 for new processors to be released with Meldown and Spectre fixes in silicon. I may be in that position myself.

    ...and there is another vulnerability for Intel CPUs that was made public recently, BranchScope, so yes, new vulnerabilities will probably emerge in the future.
    This -- and your suggested timetable -- is of a very similar concern to me, and likewise encouraging a hesitation where some decision had been pending. Reports that these vulnerabilities have yet to manifest themselves in the real world provide some reassurance, but still . . . .
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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    also isn't windows 10 and all future editions of windows will only support newer processors
    that way your forced to upgrade to a new processor.
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  7. Originally Posted by october262 View Post
    also isn't windows 10 and all future editions of windows will only support newer processors
    that way your forced to upgrade to a new processor.
    I don‘t understand. Please explain it deeper.
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    Originally Posted by flashandpan007 View Post
    Originally Posted by october262 View Post
    also isn't windows 10 and all future editions of windows will only support newer processors
    that way your forced to upgrade to a new processor.
    I don‘t understand. Please explain it deeper.
    He's saying that when Microsoft stops issuing security patches for Windows 7, Windows 7 users who don't wish to soldier on without security patches may be forced to update their hardware as well as their OS.

    Windows 7 is getting security patches, but that is scheduled to end on January 14, 2020. Mainstream support ended on January 13, 2015, which is why Microsoft chose not to provide support in Windows 7 for CPUs and motherboards released after that date. Unfortunately Windows 10 works well with some but not all old hardware.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 14th Apr 2018 at 12:17.
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  9. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by flashandpan007 View Post
    Originally Posted by october262 View Post
    also isn't windows 10 and all future editions of windows will only support newer processors
    that way your forced to upgrade to a new processor.
    I don‘t understand. Please explain it deeper.
    He's saying that when Microsoft stops issuing security patches for Windows 7, Windows 7 users who don't wish to soldier on without security patches may be forced to update their hardware as well as their OS.

    . . . Unfortunately Windows 10 works well with some but not all old hardware.
    I'm rather experienced (at the hobbyist level, at least), and generally pretty careful, but I've managed to destroy W10 on a couple rigs so far, to the point where it was unrecoverable -- and not doing anything particularly unusual that I could identify. I'm using "P2 Chassis" series models of Shuttle XPC cube PCs, which are several years old at this point. They ran 8.1 just fine. Allowing for the fact that I haven't liked what I've seen of W10, it all started out promisingly enough, until ___, uh oh, that was over the edge of a cliff.

    Time for very optional projects has been lacking, so I haven't gone rushing back to have another go.
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    They invent CPU microcode just for this reason. if there are problems or vulnerabilities after the release of a processor (AMD or Intel) this way they can provide solutions directly in the hardware.(though bios or OS)
    So if you buy new hardware today and there are more problems or vulnerabilities found tomorrow they can be fixed with this method (if there is a fix at all), although it is not for sure if they will (like Intel doesn't for older processors)

    If you can wait, do it but if you can't buy today
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    Under Windows 7 with updates for these vulnerabilities applied, there is a noticeable delay of several seconds when lunching applications. I am using an i5-4690K and I have decided not to "upgrade" to Windows 10. What delay are you seeing?
    Last edited by kyrcy; 19th May 2018 at 08:58.
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    Originally Posted by kyrcy View Post
    Under Windows 7 with updates for these vulnerabilities applied, there is a noticeable delay of several seconds when lunching applications. I am using an i5-4690K and I have decided not to "upgrade" to Windows 10. What delay are you seeing?
    Can you I.D. which MS KB updates for Win 7 that have been released were supposedly to address these vulnerabilities ?
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    [And now, add 'Foreshadow ' to the list.]

    I've been seeing ads for latest gen CPUs such as

    https://www.frys.com/product/9294239?nearbyStoreName=false&site=friemail110918

    which left me wondering if the aforementioned flaws might by now have been addressed in hardware. I haven't seriously researched that as yet, or kept up on the subject. Have any of you ? If so, what's the prognosis ?

    A quick check found these:

    https://newsroom.intel.com/press-kits/security-exploits-intel-products/

    https://www.engadget.com/2018/08/14/intel-discloses-processor-vulnerability-l1tf/

    & especially this

    https://www.wired.com/story/foreshadow-intel-secure-enclave-vulnerability/

    Perhaps the real-world risk remains on the low side (?), but it would be nice to see some major, systemic manufacturing solutions @ Intel.

    My reading of that last article suggests that using any non-current-version VM product could be rather risky. (?)

    And I'm looking to bump my post #12 above, which was never answered. Those reported slowdowns amount to a possible disincentive for these software remedies.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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    Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    [And now, add 'Foreshadow ' to the list.]

    I've been seeing ads for latest gen CPUs such as

    https://www.frys.com/product/9294239?nearbyStoreName=false&site=friemail110918

    which left me wondering if the aforementioned flaws might by now have been addressed in hardware. I haven't seriously researched that as yet, or kept up on the subject. Have any of you ? If so, what's the prognosis ?
    I did some research on Intel processors because I have them. Someone else can do the research for the Spectre fixes released for AMD processors.

    The newly released "9th generation" Coffee Lake-R processors have fixes for Spectre and Meltdown built in. See https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_s_9th_generation_coffee_lake-r_cp...rdware_fixes/1

    Core Whiskey Lake processors and Xeon Cascade Lake server processors are supposed to have fixes built in too.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 25th Nov 2018 at 14:12. Reason: clarity
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    [And now, add 'Foreshadow ' to the list.]

    I've been seeing ads for latest gen CPUs such as

    https://www.frys.com/product/9294239?nearbyStoreName=false&site=friemail110918

    which left me wondering if the aforementioned flaws might by now have been addressed in hardware. I haven't seriously researched that as yet, or kept up on the subject. Have any of you ? If so, what's the prognosis ?
    I did some research on Intel processors because I have them. Someone else can do the research for the Spectre fixes released for AMD processors.

    The newly released "9th generation" Coffee Lake-R processors have fixes for Spectre and Meltdown built in. See https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_s_9th_generation_coffee_lake-r_cp...rdware_fixes/1

    Core Whiskey Lake processors and Xeon Cascade Lake server processors are supposed to have fixes built in too.
    That's good to know. Thank You. I'm again thinking about a future system build, and this is important info. We must suppose that "other shoes" may still drop, and now the question may transfer to this 'Foreshadow' business. (?)
    If the new pricing is along the lines of my Fry's link above, there will be (or should be) considerable resistance to investing that kind of $$ into something that remains seriously flawed.
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    Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    That's good to know. Thank You. I'm again thinking about a future system build, and this is important info. We must suppose that "other shoes" may still drop, and now the question may transfer to this 'Foreshadow' business. (?)
    If the new pricing is along the lines of my Fry's link above, there will be (or should be) considerable resistance to investing that kind of $$ into something that remains seriously flawed.
    Addressing processor vulnerabilities is going to be a game of whack-a-mole. As a home user, I'm not going to waste time worrying about the known exploits or those yet to be discovered. If I need a new computer, I'm going to get one. In fact, I just did.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Addressing processor vulnerabilities is going to be a game of whack-a-mole. As a home user, I'm not going to waste time worrying about the known exploits or those yet to be discovered. If I need a new computer, I'm going to get one. In fact, I just did.
    What computer did you get?
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    Originally Posted by kyrcy View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Addressing processor vulnerabilities is going to be a game of whack-a-mole. As a home user, I'm not going to waste time worrying about the known exploits or those yet to be discovered. If I need a new computer, I'm going to get one. In fact, I just did.
    What computer did you get?
    I bought parts and built the computer. I used a Supermicro C7B360-CB-MW motherboard with an i5-8400 processor and installed 16GB of RAM. I also bought a new PSU and a few other odds and ends like a Displayport 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 active adapter supporting 4K@60 Hz with HDR-10 plus HDCP 2.2 pass through.

    Unfortunately, things have not gone as smoothly as with the other two computers that I built. The latest problem: I decided to update the BIOS, having experience with doing it successfully with my previous computers, and bricked the motherboard. I am now in the process of getting a repair estimate from the manufacturer.
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    Supermicro is a brand that I can't find locally. Strange you had a problem with updating the BIOS. I currently use a Gigabyte motherboard and it has a dual bios for recovery (which luckily I never had to use).
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    Originally Posted by kyrcy View Post
    Supermicro is a brand that I can't find locally. Strange you had a problem with updating the BIOS. I currently use a Gigabyte motherboard and it has a dual bios for recovery (which luckily I never had to use).
    I'm not surprised that it isn't available everywhere. Supermicro is better known for servers and server components. Desktop motherboards are a much smaller part of their business. The U.S. online retailer where I bought my motherboard, which was the only outlet that I found for their desktop boards, has recently stopped offering that model, so it may be out of production.
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