Capture 1080i50 with minimal quality loss. Advice please!

[nick1977]

Hi all

I have experience with various capturing and editing techniques, but believe it or not I've never until now ventured into HD territory when capturing.

I'm sure it's a common requirement but have had a browse through the forum, but struggled to find anything specifically related to my challenge.

I want to capture some non commercially available programmes from my Sky HD box. I know it outputs 1080i50, and want to retain this format.I know I will need a splitter to deal with HDCP so no need to worry about that.

My PC is conveniently situated next to my Sky Box, so the solution can use that. It's not state of the art now (about 4 years old) but is a 3rd gen i7 with a decent size SSD and HDD and USB3.
Will consider a PCI card if there is significant benefit to be gained, although I will have to open up the PC to see if I can accommodate it before buying!

Goal is to capture at as a high a quality as reasonably possible, as most files will be edited before a final conversion to mp4 or mkv using handbrake.

Budget is up to £200.

All input / advice welcome, and if I have missed some information out that would be useful please let me know.

Thanks
Nick

[KarMa]

The Hauppauge Colossus 2 is a popular option.

[nick1977]

Thanks for the suggestion.
Had a look into that, and it looks like a good option.

Can I ask, would there be a significant benefit in going for this, rather than a standalone Hauppauge device like the PVR 60?

I was looking at this Amazon link

It would obviously be easier than fitting another card, and would give the added benefit of being "loanable" to my dad

Could I connect it to a standard USB 3 socket and get the equivalent quality that I would from the colossus 2?

[KarMa]

Seems like the PVR 60 supports 1080i content which is good. Guess the only reason to go with Colossus 2 is if you want to record component (supports 1080i/p), should you have trouble with encrypted HDMI content or don't have your HDCP stripper on hand.

The Hauppauge 1512 HD-PVR 2 looks like a Colossus 2 in an external case for the same price as the PVR 60, with the optical audio and component inputs.

[nick1977]

Great, I was hoping there would be a decent external solution, as it will be a lot easier, plus I'm not even sure I have a spare pci slot!

One thing that concerns me with the 1512 and PVR60 is this, which is copied from the spec on their website...

Recording datarate: from 1 to 13.5 Mbits/sec (CBR) or up to 21Mbits/sec (VBR)

Does this mean that I can't capture uncompressed from this box? I'm not obsessive about the quality, but would like the initial capture to be as good as the original file (to the average eye). I will then probably edit it before a final conversion in handbrake.

[nick1977]

Sorry I should've said using lossless compression rather than uncompressed.

[jagabo]

Does this mean that I can't capture uncompressed from this box?

Everything they capture is h.264 encoded. 20 Mb/s with a poor hardware encoder isn't enough for transparency. On the other hand, lossless compression of 1080i video will be over 150 GB per hour

[nick1977]

Thanks jagabo. Have you any recommendations based on my requirements?

[jagabo]

Not recommendations (never used any of them) but info:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376473-Lossless-HDMI-capture-devices-comparison-sc...ts#post2428702
http://www.magewell.com/usb-capture-aio/tech-specs
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376945-Conventional-analog-capture-workflow-vs-alt...e2#post2461554

[nick1977]

OK, I've had a look at those links. Some of it goes over my head, but the Magewell capture option was interesting. However I am wondering if it is all a bit overkill for what I'm trying to do.

I'm sure there must be forum members who have copied tv shows etc to a PC from a digital HD box and retained an HD picture.
Can anyone share any experiences?
The Hauppauge PVR60 mentioned above is tempting me, especially as I could buy from Amazon and return if not satisfied. Is there going to be a noticeable quality difference between the "original" and the captured file?

The 22mbps maximum seems low, but is probably higher than the source in many cases...

[Revan654]

OK, I've had a look at those links. Some of it goes over my head, but the Magewell capture option was interesting. However I am wondering if it is all a bit overkill for what I'm trying to do.

I'm sure there must be forum members who have copied tv shows etc to a PC from a digital HD box and retained an HD picture.
Can anyone share any experiences?
The Hauppauge PVR60 mentioned above is tempting me, especially as I could buy from Amazon and return if not satisfied. Is there going to be a noticeable quality difference between the "original" and the captured file?

The 22mbps maximum seems low, but is probably higher than the source in many cases...

The source material from the TV is usually only around 12 to 16mbps. From TV to PC, it's all going to depend on the display and colorspace the card uses.

I would look at the specs of the Magewell HDMI Cards. If you don't need all the features it has then Elgato HD60 would work just as well.

Elgato: 40 mbps
Magewell: Uncompressed or whatever setting you want to use.

Link: https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/game-capture-hd60

[nick1977]

Thank you

It seems some things never change - whenever I get into another area of video capture, I open up a whole can of worms!
If only you could do a direct copy of a digital file on your dvr to a PC!

Anyway, I have decided to rule out the PCI card option, for two reasons. Firstly, even if I did have a spare socket, it would be very awkward to get to the rear of the PC every time I want to record something. Secondly, I spoke to my Dad yesterday and he is very keen to borrow whatever I buy to do the same thing with his Sky box.

The elgato products clearly have an advantage with the higher maximum bitrate, but I have read that they don't recognise 5.1 audio. Is that correct? I didn't even consider that as a problem, as I assumed setting the sky box to output Dolby Digital over HDMI would allow the device to pick up the stream and record it without any recompression. From what I have read, the Hauppauge will do this. Although the programmes I currently have to back up are 2.0 it is not much of a stretch to think some in the future might have 5.1. It's probably more important than being able to record 1080p60.
Other reviews also say the gamma isn't as good on the Hauppauge Pvr 60 but the Elgato has a slightly softened image.

Same as always. Lots of options out there, but struggling to find one which best suits my needs!

Like I said, learning all the time!
Updated summary of requirements:

Record 1080i50 without deinterlacing
External device (USB 2 or 3)
Image quality very important. Ideally no noticeable difference when compared to source.
Record DD5.1 stream coming through HDMI (or separate optical connection)

I'd love to hear from someone who has first hand experience of doing what I'm hoping to do (or something very close)

[badyu17]

It all comes down to what you consider "no noticable difference". Sky always had premium picture quality and both hardware encoders from HD-PVR 2 and Elgato can't really record it without huge loss. Elgato softens picture a little too much for my liking and HD-PVR 2 is producing sharper picture but with more visible blocking and its "variable" rate control is not really variable compared to Sky's real variable bitrate on satellite. Plus, HD-PVR 2 has problems with wrong color reproduction and I'm not talking about BT 601 vs BT 709 conversion. I could never match colors exactly even if I tweaked proc-amp controls. Elgato has better color reproduction for sure, I have some Sky HD recordings from Elgato although I don't own that device. HD-PVR 2 has an option for 5.1 so it's all about trade-off and what's more important for you. If I were you, I'd get some card without encoding chip and capture with lossless codec. But that's me, maybe you'll be happy with either Elgato or Hauppauge.

[nick1977]

Thanks for the advice. I think what's making this difficult is not being able to see how good/bad these devices are going to be. It's difficult to know if I'll find the quality acceptable or not. All YouTube videos focus on game capture rather than a "real" picture, so it's not easy to tell from those.
Are there any example captures from a TV source knocking around anywhere?

[nick1977]

Possibly a silly question, but would there be any difference between the Elgato HD60 and HD 60s for what I'm planning to do?
I'm a little bit confused that the HD 60s uses USB 3, and relies on the PC GPU to do the encoding but still states a max bitrate of 40mbits/s. Using the PC GPU suggests it is sending the video uncompressed to the PC. Is it not possible to use that through something like virtual dub to record using lossless compression? Just a thought!

[badyu17]

Yeah it's possible, see here:

https://thethrillness.blogspot.com/

TheThrilness is a user here, he used to review capture hardware and you can find very good review for both models of Elgato.

[Revan654]

Thank you

It seems some things never change - whenever I get into another area of video capture, I open up a whole can of worms!
If only you could do a direct copy of a digital file on your dvr to a PC!

Anyway, I have decided to rule out the PCI card option, for two reasons. Firstly, even if I did have a spare socket, it would be very awkward to get to the rear of the PC every time I want to record something. Secondly, I spoke to my Dad yesterday and he is very keen to borrow whatever I buy to do the same thing with his Sky box.

The elgato products clearly have an advantage with the higher maximum bitrate, but I have read that they don't recognise 5.1 audio. Is that correct? I didn't even consider that as a problem, as I assumed setting the sky box to output Dolby Digital over HDMI would allow the device to pick up the stream and record it without any recompression. From what I have read, the Hauppauge will do this. Although the programmes I currently have to back up are 2.0 it is not much of a stretch to think some in the future might have 5.1. It's probably more important than being able to record 1080p60.
Other reviews also say the gamma isn't as good on the Hauppauge Pvr 60 but the Elgato has a slightly softened image.

Same as always. Lots of options out there, but struggling to find one which best suits my needs!

Like I said, learning all the time!
Updated summary of requirements:

Record 1080i50 without deinterlacing
External device (USB 2 or 3)
Image quality very important. Ideally no noticeable difference when compared to source.
Record DD5.1 stream coming through HDMI (or separate optical connection)

I'd love to hear from someone who has first hand experience of doing what I'm hoping to do (or something very close)

I use to record constantly the TV shows.

- The DVR are encrypted (More secure then they use to be). You could just copy the files over via firewire.
- Elgato accepts 5.1 through HDMI but only records it in 2.0. Not sure where it gets converted at (software or hardware). I'm guess hardware.
- Elgato feed is uncompressed, but there software compresses it when it's being recorded via H.264.
- Elgato have been asked about 5.1 many times, They basically say it's not really a priority and none of the sites support it. If you want 5.1 or 7.1 you need to look at Blackmagic if you want a USB option. Elgato is more user friendly.
- The Picture quality can always been tweaked, After all Elgato feed is fully uncompressed coming in. The difference between the two tiny, you will not be able to tell the difference with a few tweaks. My biggest issue with Hauppauge is there bitrate and refusing to increase it. I have recorded Hauppauge footage at 1080i/p and it came out all blocky in high motion scenes using highest bitrate possible.
- Also take this into consideration with USB 2.0 there will be a slight delay. For recording TV it's meaningless. If you ever plan to record videogames you will have to use the passthrough. USB 3.0 is not an issue.
- With USB 3.0 I have had my share of issues with USB 3.0 capture cards not working since it doesn't get along with the USB controller.
- If you want on the fly deinterlacing you will have to use 3rd party software that supports something like ffmpeg and tweak the settings so a filter is enabled to deinterlace the footage. It's better to record it interlaced and then deinterlace with proper software. Specially if your after High Quality. I personally favor QTGMC plugin for deinterlace through staxrip. Magewell has deinterlace feature built in (http://www.magewell.com/usb-capture-hdmi-plus)
- With 5.1 the only option I seen is Blackmagic in USB form. Hauppauge 5.1 with there older unit was unstable, it's why it was removed in Rev 2 version of there 1080p30.

I should add allot of times with the 1080p60 software Hauppauge and Elgato. It use to convert the framerate down to 29.970(NTSC) even if you have 1080p60 unit. I not sure if the hardware or software still does this or not. All video footage coming through Sky will be 25 fps.

The only DVR I know that can do 60fps is dishnetworks Hopper 3(It also supports 4K and HDR10). 1080i feeds still use lower framerate.

Here is another option: https://www.avermedia.com/gaming/product/game_capture/live_gamer_portable_2_plus

It was released not to long ago, It doesn't even need to be plugged into your PC to record. Have no idea on biterate or audio channels since it's not stated anywhere.

[Revan654]

Possibly a silly question, but would there be any difference between the Elgato HD60 and HD 60s for what I'm planning to do?
I'm a little bit confused that the HD 60s uses USB 3, and relies on the PC GPU to do the encoding but still states a max bitrate of 40mbits/s. Using the PC GPU suggests it is sending the video uncompressed to the PC. Is it not possible to use that through something like virtual dub to record using lossless compression? Just a thought!

The only difference is the Connection(S is USB 3.0 and non-S is USB 2.0) and normal HD60 has a slight delay. If your just recording TV the Non-S would achieve everything you need. Only grab the S if your going be playing games on your PC.

Elgato does allow third party software(Everything is Software based then, Make sure your PC is able to hand Lossless or uncompressed). Not sure if the hardware/drivers has some kind of bitrate max set to. Even if you increase the bitrate top something higher, you will still only get 40mbs worthy quality. I rememeber someone at Elgato saying something like that.

All Elgato products use GPU for Decoding and Encoding(There software Only). You can switch it from GPU to Software in there software.

To use VirtualDub you need special drivers(Not sure it will work with USB versions, it was designed for the Pro version, it also 3rd party driver). OBS does work with Elgato.

*Side Note* Elgato is still a 8bit capture card, Even if your DVR outputs at 10bit it will only record in 8 bit.

[nick1977]

Thanks to you both for the responses. Some useful info in there. I'm still a little confused about the 40mb/s limit though.
If the HD60s doesn't have a hardware encoder, it must be sending more than 40 through the USB3 port. Therefore if you intercept it with direct show drivers as suggested by badyu17 then surely it's more than 40?
If only it supported 5.1 it would be a definite win. I suppose there's no way around that aspect? Even with third party apps. Still seems odd how HDMI supports DD streams but most devices can't simply record the digital data.

From

[Revan654]

Thanks to you both for the responses. Some useful info in there. I'm still a little confused about the 40mb/s limit though.
If the HD60s doesn't have a hardware encoder, it must be sending more than 40 through the USB3 port. Therefore if you intercept it with direct show drivers as suggested by badyu17 then surely it's more than 40?
If only it supported 5.1 it would be a definite win. I suppose there's no way around that aspect? Even with third party apps. Still seems odd how HDMI supports DD streams but most devices can't simply record the digital data.

From

40 is already plenty, Your almost double the bitrate of a Blu-Ray. Don't forget your recording a 1080i24 video feed.

According to Elgato site it's already in H.264 form by the time it hits your PC. The signal get compressed within the card it self somewhere before being sent through the USB cable.

That on-board H.264 chip does barely anything. It just overloads some of the CPU load to it. It's not even used when you stream.

There basically always two streams recording with Elgato if your using there software. You need to take that into account.

FlashBack Recording & Local Recording/streaming (Even when stream it records).

There an article on Elgato site that states the signal coming from HD60(s) to PC is already compressed to H.264.

HD60: "The USB connection to your computer offers a delayed view of the game, due to the H.264 compression process. "

HD60S - USB Port: This sends the H.264 encoded video to your computer via USB 3.0. The USB cable also powers the Elgato Game Capture HD60 hardware.

[poisondeathray]

I downloaded the sample form thethrillness's review for the hd60 s

Some dropped frames, and VFR.

Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 42.398 FPS
Minimum frame rate : 24.096 FPS
Maximum frame rate : 60.606 FPS

There are jumps in the motion. It's unclear if the dropped frames are from the card (maybe it can't keep up?), the computer (apparently it uses some of the host system), or the source (gameplay - maybe dropped frames in the first place, maybe slow GPU) . Eitherway , VFR makes it unusuable in many situations

It's just one sample, but quality wise is not that great for 40Mb/s . You don't expect it to be. It's meant for real time encoding (and apparently it can't even do that). There is a big different between an offline, slow, maybe even multipass encoding vs. something intended for realtime

The HD60 (non S) sample was CFR. That quality was better, but it used a higher bitrate and the sample was really "30p" with duplicates, so not as "stressfull" as true 60p gameplay

[jagabo]

I downloaded the sample form thethrillness's review for the hd60 s

Some dropped frames, and VFR.

Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 42.398 FPS
Minimum frame rate : 24.096 FPS
Maximum frame rate : 60.606 FPS

There are jumps in the motion. It's unclear if the dropped frames are from the card (maybe it can't keep up?), the computer (apparently it uses some of the host system), or the source (gameplay - maybe dropped frames in the first place, maybe slow GPU) .

I saw that too. Not very confidence inspiring.

[badyu17]

It's not the card, it's the game. It's very common situation on consoles that many games struggle to render even 30Hz all the time, let alone 60. So this is the source issue, not capture or PC hw.

[poisondeathray]

It's not the card, it's the game. It's very common situation on consoles that many games struggle to render even 30Hz all the time, let alone 60. So this is the source issue, not capture or PC hw.

You must be referring to the non-S card observation

A CFR recording would just record with duplicates . For example, an effective 10fps gameplay section would just have 6 duplicates in a row for each unique frame to make up the 60FPS. There would be hardcoded duplictates. That's what you want and expect from a CFR recording device

So the S card , with it's VFR, is problematic if that sample is representative. I would strongly advise against it

[Revan654]

I downloaded the sample form thethrillness's review for the hd60 s

Some dropped frames, and VFR.

Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 42.398 FPS
Minimum frame rate : 24.096 FPS
Maximum frame rate : 60.606 FPS

There are jumps in the motion. It's unclear if the dropped frames are from the card (maybe it can't keep up?), the computer (apparently it uses some of the host system), or the source (gameplay - maybe dropped frames in the first place, maybe slow GPU) . Eitherway , VFR makes it unusuable in many situations

It's just one sample, but quality wise is not that great for 40Mb/s . You don't expect it to be. It's meant for real time encoding (and apparently it can't even do that). There is a big different between an offline, slow, maybe even multipass encoding vs. something intended for realtime

The HD60 (non S) sample was CFR. That quality was better, but it used a higher bitrate and the sample was really "30p" with duplicates, so not as "stressfull" as true 60p gameplay

Something isn't right with his recordings. I still have a few Raw recording from my Elgato and they don't much up with his so called raw videos. Even the writing software is different. The videos also have a Encoded setting profile in the metadata.

It looks like these videos were re-encoded after being outputted by Elgato.

Don't think his harddrive was able to keep up with his recording.


Here is True Raw data from my recordings.

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 59.920 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 59.960 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.468
Stream size                              : 2.06 GiB (100%)
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

[poisondeathray]

Something isn't right with his recordings. I still have a few Raw recording from my Elgato and they don't much up with his so called raw videos. Even the writing software is different. The videos also have a Encoded setting profile in the metadata.

It looks like these videos were re-encoded after being outputted by Elgato.

Don't think his harddrive was able to keep up with his recording.


Here is True Raw data from my recordings.

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 59.920 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 59.960 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.468
Stream size                              : 2.06 GiB (100%)
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Your recording is still minimally VFR - which can still be problematic . If it was me, that alone would prevent me from buying it

But maybe different driver or firmware version can explain the differences ? Maybe model revision ?

A HDD "not being able to keep up" would be a pretty bad HDD about to brick. A 40Mb/s stream is about 5MB/s write speed.

What makes me think it's authentic is his recording has fixed 15 frame gop, no b-frames, no cabac . If you're re-encoding, that's not what typically is used. Those types of settings are typical for realtime or hardware encoders

[Revan654]

Something isn't right with his recordings. I still have a few Raw recording from my Elgato and they don't much up with his so called raw videos. Even the writing software is different. The videos also have a Encoded setting profile in the metadata.

It looks like these videos were re-encoded after being outputted by Elgato.

Don't think his harddrive was able to keep up with his recording.


Here is True Raw data from my recordings.

Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 59.920 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 59.960 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.468
Stream size                              : 2.06 GiB (100%)
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Your recording is still minimally VFR - which can still be problematic . If it was me, that alone would prevent me from buying it

But maybe different driver or firmware version can explain the differences ? Maybe model revision ?

A HDD "not being able to keep up" would be a pretty bad HDD about to brick. A 40Mb/s stream is about 5MB/s write speed.

What makes me think it's authentic is his recording has fixed 15 frame gop, no b-frames, no cabac . If you're re-encoding, that's not what typically is used. Those types of settings are typical for realtime or hardware encoders

There plenty of examples of a normal 7200 rpm drive not being able to keep up with the Elgato over the years. I'm just saying. There are other things to take into account while recording.

Never ran into a single issue with Elgato with the video stream, I have years worth of footage from the same device. You can alter the VFR encoding in the settings.

[poisondeathray]

There plenty of examples of a normal 7200 rpm drive not being able to keep up with the Elgato over the years. I'm just saying.

Are you sure we're referring to the same thing ? Can't keep up the the compressed rate of 40Mb/s on the S model? (5 Megabytes per second)? Not the directshow driver or "other codec" such as lossless compression data rates ? The latter would be a more reasonable explanation - because the throughput is much higher.

There are other things to take into account while recording.

Sure, but when you're recording the assumption is that you have a normally operating drive. You usually don't run virus scan a the same time or multitask or download 100 files at the same time on the drive you're recording to. That you have free space and unfragmented drive . But this is common sense stuff. That type of issue would be more user error. Someone writing reviews and a blog on devices who gets samples from companies doesn't strike me to be that "green" with computer stuff

If it's none of those, then I would look even closer at those other reports - they suggest more problems with the elgato to me, not necessarily a HDD problem. Just saying... 5MB/s sequential is pretty negligible. If a HDD "can't keep" up, you better retire that drive. Just saying....

Never ran into a single issue with Elgato with the video stream, I have years worth of footage from the same device.

How did you use it ? Did you ever try editing it ?

You can alter the VFR encoding in the settings.

I would hope so - nobody in their right mind should want to record VFR for acquisition format.




Maybe there are differences like the ones mentioned earlier, model revision, firmware etc... Because the "s" model so far looks like a turd to me based on the evidence so far

[Revan654]

There plenty of examples of a normal 7200 rpm drive not being able to keep up with the Elgato over the years. I'm just saying.

Are you sure we're referring to the same thing ? Can't keep up the the compressed rate of 40Mb/s on the S model? (5 Megabytes per second)? Not the directshow driver or "other codec" such as lossless compression data rates ? The latter would be a more reasonable explanation - because the throughput is much higher.

There are other things to take into account while recording.

Sure, but when you're recording the assumption is that you have a normally operating drive. You usually don't run virus scan a the same time or multitask or download 100 files at the same time on the drive you're recording to. That you have free space and unfragmented drive . But this is common sense stuff. That type of issue would be more user error. Someone writing reviews and a blog on devices who gets samples from companies doesn't strike me to be that "green" with computer stuff

If it's none of those, then I would look even closer at those other reports - they suggest more problems with the elgato to me, not necessarily a HDD problem. Just saying... 5MB/s sequential is pretty negligible. If a HDD "can't keep" up, you better retire that drive. Just saying....

Never ran into a single issue with Elgato with the video stream, I have years worth of footage from the same device.

How did you use it ? Did you ever try editing it ?

You can alter the VFR encoding in the settings.

I would hope so - nobody in their right mind should want to record VFR for acquisition format.




Maybe there are differences like the ones mentioned earlier, model revision, firmware etc... Because the "s" model so far looks like a turd to me based on the evidence so far

1. Yes, There been post on reddit and such. Once they replaced there drive to a SSD everything was perfect once again. Everything was being written by Elgato Software not 3rd software.

3. The HD60S has it share of issues, including not getting along with the USB 3.0 controller. I had a brand new motherboard and it still didn't get along with the HD60S, SO I gave it back to them. The HD60 and HD60Pro are the versions to go with. Hopefully by now all issues have been ironed out, This was all doing it's first week of Launch.

I prefer using Magewell, it's just far superior and runs with countless software right out of the box.



2. Don't forget There atlease always two streams coming in and being written to the drive. Then if you start to stack other things that rate will start to increase (Overlays, Camera - Extra Video stream, Extra audio channels, etc...). There allot of data coming in not just Video stream.

3. All my video videos were edit afterwards with a H.264 editor(VRD5) and then compressed for youtube upload with HandBrake or Staxrip. I have a good 1.5TB+ of videos from HD60Pro/HD60.

4. Studios are starting to shoot movies with VRF now of days then old Constant. VRF does have it benefits as well. Allot of people prefer VRF when recording or encoding. Specially with Videogame material.

Even software like ShadowPlay use VRF.

5. It's all Software, which is where the filewriter is. It was encoded by Elgato Software, if you dive deeper into the metadata you can see the comments about it. It uses a form of ffmpeg. It also missing Format profile and Codec ID/Framerate data is also different.

[nick1977]

Some interesting discussion here. This reminds me of the situation I was in many years back with analog capture. There's pros and cons of everything and it's nigh on impossible to find something that ticks all the boxes.

I've made a decision to jump in and test the water, so to speak. I've started with the box that (picture quality excluded) ticks my boxes - the Hauppauge PVR 2 Game Edition Plus.
I picked one up 2nd hand on eBay, so if I don't get on with it I can sell it on and not lose much. At least this way I'll have a basis for comparison. I will of course update here with my findings.

Thanks everyone for your input. Much appreciated!