Cinepak video encoding

[cke]

Hi guys! I've had no success running VirtualDub, for some reason it's complicated to me I've been searching everywhere for the Windows version(s) of CinePak Pro codecs without any success. If anyone has it available somewhere that would be a real life-saver! Apparently, the output quality is noticeably better, but who knows where the codec vanished to!

Also, I did encode some video that plays on 68k Macs using Xmedia Recode w/no additional codecs I used MJPEG @15fps, yay! (although the audio codec I picked did not appear to work on my 68k Mac, darn!) but I'd love to add QuickTime Seven's codecs to XMedia, but I don't know how (or if) that's even possible!

Anyway, I hope everyone's well and staying safe!

Ps. I did learn that video inside mac games was largely done with a product from rad video that resulted in videos encoded with the .smk (smacker) format and extension. the audio and video quality are superb! the only issue is that the encoded videos only play with their 68k mac video player. So here's the 68k-compatible encoder I found that worked, along w/its 68k FAT player for Mac games called Smacker is here and a few references to CinePak Pro are here and here (I think everyone knows where to get XMedia Recode!)

[LBSiUK]

I know this thread is old as all heck but I went to the effort of converting the music video for 'Sicko Mode' into Cinepak. If you're wondering how I did it, I used Shotcut (my video editor of choice) and got it to work with Cinepak (somehow). As the bits per sample on the audio is only 8 bits, it sounds like there's static in the background constantly, however it's fine. I'll put it on my Google Drive, for anybody who may want it. I don't know if the aspect ratio being 16:9 is going to be an issue, let's hope it isn't. If it is then I can make a 4:3 version pretty easily. It did take quite a while to encode, which (according to another reply) was due to a high bitrate.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1crrPUUWEJhoeqvXvUxQPmAA7kP0DVsqc/view?usp=sharing

[cke]

I played the video and the audio played back smoothly, the video not so much, but that's the whole dance with old codecs like this one: they need a lower bitrate to playback smoothly, mostly for the video, but that often makes videos look not as good.

I really appreciate the effort, and it's really nice to see that such a modern editor can play nice with such a legacy codec like Cinepak; kudos for succeeding in encoding this, LBSiUK! I really need to visit this forum more often, the gang here really rocks!

[Swedaniel]

Still looking for help with this? i skimmed thru real fast! Ive been using MJPEG allso, but at 60 fps... and ive tested the Cinepak by Radius some allso and got success with the QuickTime Player v.7.7 components together with Cinepak codec.. but not with XmediaRecode tough!

It is an pretty cool codec, look sort of like metallic glitter/chromed iron/silver sometimes in the videos!

[Cornucopia]

Caveat reminder:

Cinepak only supports 16bit color (aka "thousands of colors") as opposed to full/true color - 24bit color (aka "millions of colors"). Which means there will be dithering. Ugh!

Also, most all common Cinepak decoder implementations do not support larger frame sizes (SD D1 or >) or higher bitrates (=>1Mbps), even though the encoders often allow those to be selected. The decoders will glitch/stutter and sometimes completely freeze up.

Seriously, other than making a few as an example for Museum Archives, good riddance to Cinepak!


Scott

[cke]

Still looking for help with this? i skimmed thru real fast! Ive been using MJPEG allso, but at 60 fps... and ive tested the Cinepak by Radius some allso and got success with the QuickTime Player v.7.7 components together with Cinepak codec.. but not with XmediaRecode tough!

It is an pretty cool codec, look sort of like metallic glitter/chromed iron/silver sometimes in the videos!

That's pretty awesome, Swedaniel!

I've gone nuts over legacy video technologies that I played with since I was a kid thanks to my dad's old video hobbies! Cinepak was one of Apple's very first developed technologies that's amazing low in processor requirements that eventually led to PPC alternatives like Sorenson, all which run using Quicktime players. A really cool website where folks can both play and upload some real old-school QT videos that use these very same video codes is cornica.org.

But to answer your question, I continue to be on the lookout for new ways to use Cinepak since I want to play them back on some older Macs I love playing with I did find a way to encode without issues, except for the fact that I need to get my hands on an old Mac OS X Mac or emulator to use it, lol!

Here is just a bit on the settings needed for that setup using MPEG Streamclip:

[Swedaniel]

Still looking for help with this? i skimmed thru real fast! Ive been using MJPEG allso, but at 60 fps... and ive tested the Cinepak by Radius some allso and got success with the QuickTime Player v.7.7 components together with Cinepak codec.. but not with XmediaRecode tough!

It is an pretty cool codec, look sort of like metallic glitter/chromed iron/silver sometimes in the videos!

That's pretty awesome, Swedaniel!

I've gone nuts over legacy video technologies that I played with since I was a kid thanks to my dad's old video hobbies! Cinepak was one of Apple's very first developed technologies that's amazing low in processor requirements that eventually led to PPC alternatives like Sorenson, all which run using Quicktime players. A really cool website where folks can both play and upload some real old-school QT videos that use these very same video codes is cornica.org.

But to answer your question, I continue to be on the lookout for new ways to use Cinepak since I want to play them back on some older Macs I love playing with I did find a way to encode without issues, except for the fact that I need to get my hands on an old Mac OS X Mac or emulator to use it, lol!

Here is just a bit on the settings needed for that setup using MPEG Streamclip:


[Attachment 75677 - Click to enlarge]

Ok cool, my success included MPEG Streamclip v.1.1 allso so i cant help bring much new to the table with that then, would have to scramble thru some stuff to see if there are other solution to work out allso that ive missed or forgotten! normaly i dont use much QuickTime but since the player was allredy installed i got this MPEG Streamclip going and finally got going with the Cinepak codec, which gave some cool results for once!

MPEG Streamclip seem to function with 3ivx codec, but not divx, that was dissapointing! The MJPEG Videos converted with perfect results allso, into an MP4 with H.264 Codec, funnily the MOV video with H.264 give message "Wrong MIME Type" and cant be played in some web browsers! Even the video with Cinepak by Radius codec went thru and play perfect in the web browsers after converting it into MP4 with H.264, it even preserved the look/style of the Cinepak codec!

Ill try check in with the cornica website, must just run it thru some scramblers to see whats waiting before i arrive!

Edit: I had been woundering what i would acctually need this QuickTime Player for and concidered uninstalling, funnily it work as Video Renderer and Video Decoder for the DivX Player 7 for MP4+MOV Videos with H.264 Codec and allso function with MPEG Streamclip! Look like the QuickTime Player 7.7 + DivX Player 7 survived the uninstallation button thanks to this!

[cke]

Nice work, Swedaniel!

So as you figured out, MPEG Streamclip does the heavy lifting here without the need of other things like the QuickTime you uninstalled!

I know that it's easier for me to follow command line work when I find video examples like I have in the past on YouTube. I own a Chromebook too, and I finally learnt how to use its Linux command line to install things (and again, YouTube how to's have helped me there as well)

I may look into seeing if some of the things Pandy and others have posted on this for me here to try can also be done on the Penguin OS now that I have some access to its command line. I and am also getting familiar with how the command line works in there installing other things. Compiling things like QEMU haven't worked in there however, but I did manage to run a QEMU AppImage that emulates a PPC with which I might be able to learn how to configure and use it someday to try to run an older OS to have even more video options to work with

[Swedaniel]

Nice work, Swedaniel!

So as you figured out, MPEG Streamclip does the heavy lifting here without the need of other things like the QuickTime you uninstalled!

I know that it's easier for me to follow command line work when I find video examples like I have in the past on YouTube. I own a Chromebook too, and I finally learnt how to use its Linux command line to install things (and again, YouTube how to's have helped me there as well)

I may look into seeing if some of the things Pandy and others have posted on this for me here to try can also be done on the Penguin OS now that I have some access to its command line. I and am also getting familiar with how the command line works in there installing other things. Compiling things like QEMU haven't worked in there however, but I did manage to run a QEMU AppImage that emulates a PPC with which I might be able to learn how to configure and use it someday to try to run an older OS to have even more video options to work with

That sound pretty cool, i tried some linux many years ago, it was pretty frustrating sometimes to install something since it had to be done with commands and i seem to recall ending up with 2 files after the first phase was completed, which required even more attention and commands, it was not an difficult decision to leave the linux os behind hoping it would stay active for all future without the need to come back to reconfigure it...

And i think acctually the MPEG Streamclip im using (v.1.1) it is required to have QuickTime Player 7.7 installed.. atleast it said so in the included ReadMe, i allready had the QuickTime Player installed so really cant be sure what would happen if it is not, i was close to uninstalling the QuickTime Player for i was woundering what i would acctually need it for, same thing with the DivX Player 7, but when realising the QuickTime Player made it possible to play MP4+MOV with H.264 Codec in the DivX Player i kept it for an while to check it out and found MPEG Streamclip, so now it is an done deal to keep the QuickTime Player installed it seem like!

Btw i see you have attached things, ive got all those things disabled, it is pure text all of it over here!

Edit: And yeah as any penguin with humour would say, where did all my files go that i put into this emulator? While the penguin friend quickly responds "i dont know but there is an black pirate ship right over there".

Allso im using Windows with MPEG Streamclip, is the QuickTime Player maybe not needed with MAC OS+MPEG Streamclip?

[cke]

I’ll be testing this very thing (well, on Windows for now like you did) hopefully in the next week and if It do get the chance to do it, I’ll post my findings and hopefully results here!)

[Cornucopia]

Quicktime is built into MacOS, so you don't need QT player (or the pro version) to perform conversions (though it makes no sense to remove).

On Windows, QuickTime is not built in, and the necessary supporting DLLs to do conversions are usually only available if you install QT player first.

Note: I have mentioned on numerous occasions in the (now distant) past about bugs in MPEG Streamclip, but most of those involve DV codecs, MPEG1, and AVI container. If you are strictly using the app for Cinepack codec in MOV container, you are probably ok. But, just a caveat.


Scott

[cke]

Excellent insight on the issues with the encoding/container when you use MPEG Streamclip, Cornucopia!

At least for me, it's just to access Cinepak and yes, QuickTime is a two-parter, the program and the system codecs, which if you use one part, may as well keep the rest.

To make the challenge more real, Cinepak also has a Pro suite that was only developed for Classic PowerPC Macs, which as far as I can tell, only would run on Mac OS 7 and 9 PPC Macs, and I only have 68k Macs it offers additional encoding enhancements that can help produce clearer and smaller video encodes, but I'm happy to just get normal ones from more modern tools, especially since such an old tool couldn't even work with the huge, modern video filetypes we have today; those would need to be converted into legacy video formats that PPC Macs could play back then.