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  1. Hello,

    I ripped my collection of Looney Tunes Golden Collection DVDís using MakeMKV for use with my Plex media server. For some odd reason, when these videos are played via Plex or any other PC media player, jagged lines are visible on the edges of moving objects. At first I though perhaps this was related to an interlacing issue, however after closer examination this appears to be something different. The really odd part is that if I burn these clips back to DVD and play them on my STB DVD player, they look perfect with no hint of these jagged lines. Is my DVD player doing some kind of post processing which my PC isnít? Iíve included a screenshot below.

    Any help is appreciated.

    Image
    [Attachment 44896 - Click to enlarge]
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  2. It looks like it's being deinterlaced instead of IVTCed (inverse telecine) . Those jaggies are likely deinterlacing artifacts
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  3. Yes, the video is encoded interlaced on the disc. Remuxing it into an MKV leaves it interlaced. The jaggies are from poor deinterlacing at playback. Try using VLC with deinterlacing set to Yadif 2x.
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  4. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Yes, the video is encoded interlaced on the disc. Remuxing it into an MKV leaves it interlaced. The jaggies are from poor deinterlacing at playback. Try using VLC with deinterlacing set to Yadif 2x.
    What has me confused is that Iíve ripped several movies which are also interlaced and they seem to play fine via Plex or other media players without exhibiting these jaggies. Furthermore, if Iím forced to use VLC, then that essentially renders my Plex server of no value. Is it safe to assume then that when played through my STB DVD player, it is using a much better deinterlacer?

    Just not sure what the ultimate solution is...

    Thanks.
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  5. Originally Posted by Ahwman View Post
    Is it safe to assume then that when played through my STB DVD player, it is using a much better deinterlacer?
    I guess so. If you're not seeing the jaggies there.

    Originally Posted by Ahwman View Post
    Just not sure what the ultimate solution is...
    If you want a video that's guaranteed not so show jaggies you'll need to inverse telecine or deinterlace, and reencode.
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  6. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    It usually IS safe to assume that (or assume that the deint in your TV is doing the job, and is probably even better than may be what your STB DVD player can do).

    You could rip your dvds via AnyDVD, DvdFab, etc to Vobs and run those through DGIndex, and then run the D2V through a deint in AVISynth and out to an encoder as progressive (e.g. x264). That would get you as clean AND as cross-compatible a file as you could expect (though with 1 generation down).

    Scott
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  7. Handbrake's deinterlace (modified from Yadif) and inverse telecine are probably adequate for most people.
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  8. Thanks for all the replies. That said, I tried the suggestion above of playing these videos through VLC on my 4th gen Apple TV and low and behold they look perfect with no jaggies and perfectly smooth when panning. I can only assume that VLC is properly deinterlacing these videos. So at this point, the question is why Plex is not deinterlacining these same video files as I believe Plex is capable?
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  9. Are you sure your other DVDs are really interlaced? Most movies are encoded progressive with pulldown flags. Players will just play the progressive frames, ignoring the pulldown flags (that instruct the player how to convert those progressive frames to interlaced video).
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  10. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Are you sure your other DVDs are really interlaced? Most movies are encoded progressive with pulldown flags. Players will just play the progressive frames, ignoring the pulldown flags (that instruct the player how to convert those progressive frames to interlaced video).
    You make a great point! Since these videos play perfectly through VLC, Iím wondering if in fact VLC is honoring the pull down flags, while Plex is ignoring them? Is there any way to tell for sure if these videos are in fact interlaced or using pull down without simply relying on the meta data?

    Thanks for your help!
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  11. DgIndex can tell you if MPEG 2 is interlaced, soft pulldown, or a mix.
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  12. Ok, Iíve confirmed that these videos are not interlaced but rather encoded with pull down flags. So based on the fact that they play properly in VLC but not Plex then that Plex must be ignoring the pull down flags and simple playing the progressive frames?
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  13. Following the soft pulldown flags would result in interlaced frames being sent to the renderer. Ignoring the pulldown flags results in progressive frames being sent to the renderer.
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  14. If they were really encoded as 23.976fps with soft pulldown, it's easy enough to strip out those flags, return the video to progressive 23.976fps, and then remux with the audio as an MPG. No reencoding is done and then Plex won't have any trouble playing them. I do this from time to time when uploading what was originally DVD video to YouTube. I used to do it when using Plex to play DVD video from my computer through a Roku box and to the television.

    1. Demux audio and video - PGCDemux or DGIndex.
    2. Strip out the pulldown flags - run the M2V through DGPulldown set for 23.976->23.976
    3. Remux as MPG - Imago-MPEG Muxer.
    Last edited by manono; 12th Mar 2018 at 18:18.
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  15. Originally Posted by manono View Post
    2. Strip out the pulldown flags - run the M2V through DGPulldown set for 23.976->23.976
    I didn't know you could do that! Though I suspect you're not removing pulldown flags but setting them to 2:2, which will give progressive output.
    Last edited by jagabo; 12th Mar 2018 at 18:29.
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  16. You're right and I should have been more precise in how I worded it. Maybe, instead of saying "2. Strip out the pulldown flags" it could have been, "2. Remove the 3:2 pulldown". The RFF flags all become 'false' and the TFF flags all become 'true'. It's the progressive (and 23.976fps) output that's the main thing, so Plex can't screw it up.
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  17. Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Plex can't screw it up.
    Are you sure about that? MediaInfo still shows the clip as interlaced and when I play it in MPCHC the renderer shows it is displaying at 48 fps, not 24 fps. So MPCHC is bob deinterlacing. I didn't notice any deinterlacing artifacts but the clip I tested with (something that was sitting around) wasn't very sharp so it would have been hard to see them.
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  18. I don't know how to tell how it's rendered, but I just did a test myself and everything seems in order:
    Code:
    General
    Format                         : MPEG Video
    Format version                 : Version 2
    File size                      : 13.2 MiB
    Duration                       : 17s 893ms
    Overall bit rate mode          : Variable
    Overall bit rate               : 6 206 Kbps
    
    Video
    Format                         : MPEG Video
    Format version                 : Version 2
    Format profile                 : Main@Main
    Format settings, BVOP          : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix        : Custom
    Format settings, GOP           : M=3, N=12
    Duration                       : 17s 893ms
    Bit rate mode                  : Variable
    Bit rate                       : 6 206 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate               : 9 500 Kbps
    Width                          : 720 pixels
    Height                         : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio           : 4:3
    Frame rate                     : 23.976 fps
    Color space                    : YUV
    Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                      : 8 bits
    Scan type                      : Progressive
    Scan order                     : Top Field First
    Compression mode               : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.749
    Time code of first frame       : 00:04:11;04
    GOP, Open/Closed               : Open
    Stream size                    : 13.2 MiB (100%)

    That was the M2V after being run through DGPulldown. After muxing to MPG it's identical except for the additional audio information. I also use MPC-HC.
    Last edited by manono; 13th Mar 2018 at 12:54.
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  19. Maybe this is the render information? 23.976fps, right?
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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ID:	44915  

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  20. No. Right click on the video while it's playing and select Filters -> Video Renderer (the name may vary depending on what renderer is in use.

    Here's a cropped sample where it's obvious MPCHC is deinterlacing (left) and the same frame displayed by VirtualDub on the right.

    Click image for larger version

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ID:	44916
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  21. I don't see that. Checking them I find a couple giving the framerate and it's not 47.xxx but 23.xxx.
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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ID:	44922  

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  22. It may be the different decoders or renderers. Or some other settings.

    Click image for larger version

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ID:	44923

    But that was my original point. What you see will depend on the software/hardware you are using. I don't use Plex so I don't know how it handles such video.
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  23. Yeah, sure, but the video is progressive. If you follow the process I described and use a soft telecined DVD as a source, you get a fully progressive video, where you said it shows as interlaced. My MediaInfo posting earlier showed scan type as progressive. So does about any other app I use to have a look. And, if it's progressive, nothing should be either deinterlacing it or bobbing it. So, I don't understand.
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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ID:	44924  

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ID:	44925  

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  24. If I mux with TMPGEnc I get a video that MediaInfo reports as interlaced, 23.976 fps. If I mux with Image I get a video that MediaInfo reports as progressive 23.976 fps. GSpot shows both interlaced, 23.976 fps, 47.952 fields per second.
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  25. I installed GSpot to test and got the same as you for the video for which I had removed the 3:2 pulldown. Then I encoded a short video in HCEnc as progressive 23.976 with no 3:2 pulldown applied. GSpot still showed it as interlaced and 47.952 fields per second. My conclusion is that GSpot is dead wrong. Here's a portion of the HC-Enc log:

    profile: BEST
    frames: 0 - 1174
    framerate: 23.976
    aspect ratio: 4:3
    chroma format: 4:2:0
    bitrate: NA
    max. bitrate Kb/s: 9500
    pass: 1 (Constant Quant)
    constant Q: 4.500
    pulldown: no
    closed gops: no
    VBV check: yes
    VBV size (bits): 1835008
    scene change det: yes
    interlaced: no, TFF
    goplen,B-pic: AUTO 12
    dc_precision: 10
    intraVLC: auto
    scan method: zigzag
    bias: 0
    chapter frames: 1
    time code: 0 0 0 0
    CPU: MMX,SSE2,SSE3,SSSE3,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,AVX,AVX2
    priority: idle
    SMP active: yes
    matrix: FOX3, adaptive
    luminance gain: yes, level 2
    adaptive quantization: yes, strength 2
    deadzone quantization: auto


    Maybe Ahwman can test Plex by removing pulldown as described. He might not want to as there's work involved. I don't use it any longer and don't want to set up a test with it. But I think that's the only way to know for sure if his videos look good played through Plex.
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