Capturing via DV passthrough or with S-video capture card?

[JN-]

“You could ask the seller to check that "DV OUT" is shown in the menu (as per dot point 2).”

Perfect. Thanks Alwyn. Thanks for the screenshots also.

I'm waiting for my very first eBay purchase (not this) to come through ok, in a few days. Once thats ok i’ll pursue this purchase in earnest.

[The_Doman]

One last query. Some camcorders had the passthrough disabled in european versions.

Is it likely to be the case with the GS400? Is there a way of checking if that’s the case before purchasing a second hand one.

One last query. Some camcorders had the passthrough disabled in european versions.
Is it likely to be the case with the GS400?

I doubt it. According to the GS 400 manual from Manualslib, it does AV>DV Passthrough (page 61):

Yes , in the Dutch and English manuals (NV-GS400/EB) they also specifically mention the video in/out function of the AV connectors.
I think with the later years/models they also removed the extra importing EU taxes for recording video equipment.

Also interesting in the manuals they mention the USB-MOTION DV function.
This should enable the transfer of the full DV video over USB,
See also:
YT ConsumerDV: How to transfer video from a MiniDV camcorder to a computer via USB
Read the useful comments too about various Panasonic models.

[JN-]

Thanks The_Doman for link to videos re: usb capture etc, great stuff.

Sure enough on page 49 of GS400 manual it mentions transfer via usb. Very interesting. If I am lucky enough to get camcorder with sw disc including the driver and Motion DV Studio I will certainly be curious to see if it can transfer as good as firewire.

[The_Doman]

Thanks The_Doman for link to videos re: usb capture etc, great stuff.

Sure enough on page 49 of GS400 manual it mentions transfer via usb. Very interesting. If I am lucky enough to get camcorder with sw disc including the driver and Motion DV Studio I will certainly be curious to see if it can transfer as good as firewire.

Those drivers will be (too) old i think?
Also this brings up these old threads/discussions again of course.

Indeed, some newer generation models can transfer/stream the full DV stream through the USB.
I have used it too, many years ago.
And some similar discussion then too.

Camcorder output quality USB 2.0 vs DV firewire? OP Update 01/08

Some DV camcorders indeed can transfer the full DV stream through USB, from the specs from that Panasonic it seems possible.
http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/dv/global/products/nv-gs320/

USB 2.0 compatibility lets you upload DV data to a PC at high speed over a single USB cable.

The problem is getting the right software to work, most only support DV through firewire.

But you should try the (now free!) ScenalyzerLive
http://www.scenalyzer.com/

I have used that software myself capturing the full DV data through USB from camcorder, it's worth a try.

Try that Scenalyzer and see if it works or not?

[JN-]

Great links, bedtime reading! If/when I do get camcorder I will try out of curiosity because the perceived wisdom was that say DV25 file could/should only be copied from tape to PC via firewire. So the later camcorders must have some extra capability. The YT clip went into that very well.

RE: driver. Agreed. I also have some ancient stuff, booted up last time I tried last year, thought that would be the end of it. I have the Vegas Pro capture SW, sceneanalyzer plus Nero capture.

PC with both Me and XP and firewire ports plus old win 7 laptop with firewire input.

Have firewire card in Win 10 PC.

Reason I kept the old PC and laptop is because of firewire ports.

[The_Doman]

PC with both Me and XP and firewire ports plus old win 7 laptop with firewire input.

Have firewire card in Win 10 PC.

Reason I kept the old PC and laptop is because of firewire ports.

Same here, but I not have my old XP rig in working order anymore, i switched to laptops too.

Another possible option for capturing/recording is to get an older/refurb (business) laptop with firewire.
Often they can be acquired very cheaply, at least here in my (PAL) country The Netherlands.
I have a few Dell Latitude e6410's which work flawlessly capturing from camera/DV converters with ScenalyzerLive and Windows 7/10/11.
It uses the Ricoh OHCI 1394 firewire chipset.
Having a separate PC/laptop for capturing is very convenient without having to use/change your main system.

Also when using firewire i still warn people against the so called "hot-plugging".

And be careful when connecting firewire devices to a PC.
Specially the firewire with Sony camcorders are prone to get damaged when connected to a working PC.
Best to connect everything when powered off.

[JN-]

Just took old Dell XPS 13 2 core out of attic. Battery not charging, not holding date/time after close. It's only a fall back. I use card in Win 10 PC anyway. Thanks for extra info.

[Alwyn]

You do not need MotionDV to do DV over USB with Win 10 and 11. There is a comprehensive speil on this on my website here. Scroll down to the DV over USB section.

[JN-]

That's good news, thanks, and thanks for the link.

[JN-]

Update. Received my 1st. eBay item aok. I queried 3 sellers of GS400 to confirm item is PAL and also the DV menu item in/out.

Received only one reply. Unfortunately it turned out that the Pal GS400 has it disabled.

It's not so much greyed out as I was expecting but no entry (Yes or No) just three dashes like so - - -. Seller kindly supplied a screenshot.

Question. If I purchased an NTSC GS400 and fed it through passthrough with a 25 PAL framerate what would output? Would it be 25 or 29.97 fps.

I am interested in sourcing machine for passthrough, not for actual shooting video. So if output was 25 fps then I could simply purchase an NTSC version.

I assume that all NTSC GS400's had passthrough.

[Alwyn]

Unfortunately it turned out that the Pal GS400 has it disabled.

The GS400 manual I linked to on page 1 is definitely PAL (page 68: TV system), so there must be different PAL models (that one is a GN).

[JN-]

Indeed. The pdf manual I am using is GN.

“Question. If I purchased an NTSC GS400 and fed it through passthrough with a 25 PAL framerate what would output? Would it be 25 or 29.97 fps.”

Any ideas on this?

The list I came across doesn’t have GN, is GN NTSC. Ok its PAL, page 68.

NV-GS400K-K - Japan (black)
NV-GS400K-S - Japan (silver)
NV-GS400EG - Germany
NV-GS400EB - U.K.
NV-GS400GC - Russia
NV-GS400GC-S - Singapore
NV-GS400GD - Korea
NV-GS400B - Britain
NV-GS400E - Italy?
PV-GS400? - Taiwan, N.A.
PV-GS400PP - ?

[Alwyn]

Any ideas on this?

Nah, I was going to hypothesise but decided against it. My opinion though, now you're asking again, is that I doubt it would work. Some PAL VCRs can play NTSC tapes, I don't know if it's also the other way, or if a PAL camcorder can even do that. I doubt you'd be able to go NTSC>PAL. AFAIK, it's more than just frame rate that is different; the frame size, for a start.

[JN-]

Agreed, spéculation only gets you so far.

The only way to know for sure would be to pass a 25 framerate clip to the NTSC camcorder and see what comes out.

[JN-]

Just to clarify in case my previous post wasn’t clear. The 2 screenshots of eBay Pal menu was …

1st.
Tape Playback menu
AV IN/OUT AV JACK

2nd.
AV IN/OUT SETUP
AV JACK OUT/PHONES
A. DUB INPUT —-
DV OUT —-

[JN-]

Wondering if I slipped up. Its not the —- items its the AV Jack In/Out item. Sould I maybe ask seller to see if the currently set value of OUT/PHONES be toggled to IN ?

On page 46 AFAIKSee this would allow recording to DV tape in GS400 which can be then output anyway via firewire. Assuming AV Jack can be set to IN.

[Alwyn]

Nah, the ON/OFF setting you need is on the DV OUT submenu, not AV Jack Out. I'm looking at page 15 for the menus themselves, and there, DV OUT (which is what you want) is mentioned on page 61, second dot point of the "Analogue-Digital Conversion" section (in the image on the previous page).

So: Playback Menu > AV IN/OUT Submenu > DV OUT item, to be toggled ON or OFF. If it's got that DV OUT and On/Off, you should be good to go. All care and no responsibility from my end though!

[JN-]

I just sent a query to seller anyway. Thanks for feedback.

What led me to this also was a comment by BWAAK on last page of this post …

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/255996-about-analog-pass-through-capturing-method/page3

I am not sure the GS400 can be used as an A/D converter. Have you tried setting [AV IN/OUT] -> [AV JACK] -> [IN/OUT] ?

And Sharcs comment …

Maybe not in 1 step in passthrough mode. It has however an S-Video input so it should be possible to record S-Video as DV and play it back digitally (via Firewire, USB (?)) or analog via S-Video OUT in a second step. Just guessing.

[JN-]

Maybe the Jack item has to be changed first to IN.

All care and no responsibility from my end though! Always assumed, thanks.

[Alwyn]

Have you tried setting [AV IN/OUT] -> [AV JACK] -> [IN/OUT] ?

My reading of the manual suggests that that is only for allocating the AV jack for an incoming sound source when audio dubbing (page 45, left column refers).

[JN-]

You may be correct. Seller will come back to me on Sunday.

My guesstimate is … The 2 AV Jack options are … Out/Phones and In/Out, no IN. See page 60 3rd. square bullet point.

The “Out” seems to refer to output from an external device to input to GS400.

The two items currently “AV.Dub Input” and “DV Out” have “- - - “ set to them. when AV Jack is set to Out/Phones

When AV JACK is set to In/Out those “- - -“ may deliver a different display. The DV OUT item may not if its disabled.

Even if thats the case that it is disabled it may well be possible to use AV/S-video (not DV) video to save input to tape only if AV Jack toggles to IN/Out, as suggested by sharc. See the right side of page 46, “Recording the contents of other equipment “.

That recording on DV tape can then be output via Firewire, not as good as passthrough of course but probably minimal if any quality difference, loss.

[Alwyn]

That recording on DV tape can then be output via Firewire, not as good as passthrough of course but probably minimal if any quality difference, loss.

That would tip me over the edge; I'd just buy an ES-10, 15, 57 or any of the other appropriate pannys and just use those for stabilisation.

[The_Doman]

That recording on DV tape can then be output via Firewire, not as good as passthrough of course but probably minimal if any quality difference, loss.

It is the same digital DV stream, assuming you not have drop-outs at playback/recording.
But for long term that would be no workable solution for me today anymore, too much time and wear/tear of the deck mechanics of course.

Also possible some of the menu features (DV/analog-in/pass-through) only become available/adjustable when connected to firewire/analog video?

Same with my European Sony D8 DCR-TRV120E at factory has No DV-IN option/menu, but connecting analog and firewire works and shows the analog input in the LCD display.
But of course that is a different/older camcorder.

[JN-]

Thanks for input and suggestions. Given seller items are camcorder + battery and charger only, sans everything else i'm just about over the edge and sliding down the other side already.

Interesting to see what feedback I will receive on Sunday anyway.

I do have a Sony DVD recorder that has DV input RDR-HX710. Page 77.

But would going that way … VHS —> Dvd —> MPEG video clip not be as good qualty as VHS —> DV camcorder —> DV25 Video clip ?

[Alwyn]

I would be getting the DVD recorder only as a stabiliser; I'd capture analogue with a USB digitiser.

But would going that way … VHS —> Dvd —> MPEG video clip not be as good qualty as VHS —> DV camcorder —> DV25 Video clip ?

I'd say the DV route would be better. Much less hassle too. Burning and ripping DVDs would be almost as painful as taping.

[JN-]

Completely agree. DV route is simpler by far. I did a quick and dirty test anyway. TBH there isn’t anything in it by simply eyeballing the DV route vs DVD route. But a lot simpler the DV route.

too much time and wear/tear of the deck mechanics of course.

True indeed.

[The_Doman]

Seller will come back to me on Sunday.

Possible this can help to identify the exact model number?
How to find the model number or serial number of a Panasonic product

Serial and model numbers on camcorders can be found in one of two places. Either on the back of the camcorder (visible when the battery is removed) or on the bottom.

Also, when reading this, it seems the newer model(s) of this series did not offer the analog conversion anymore:
TrustedReviews: Panasonic NV-GS500 Review

Being a DV camcorder, the NV-GS500’s video will be compatible with virtually all editing software. Apart from the necessary FireWire jack, the NV-GS500 has a proprietary connection for a breakout cable sporting composite video, S-video, and RCA audio. However, unlike the NV-GS400, these are output only, so you won’t be able to use this camcorder to digitise straight from analogue sources. A USB port is available for accessing the contents of the SD card slot, but also turns the camcorder into a 320 x 240-resolution webcam

[JN-]

Thanks for all of that. Thats why I was looking at the gs400 instead of the later gs500. They dumbed down that aspect of the later model.