motion blur during on 80's cartoon dvd's

[Acehit]

Dear all,

I am currently watching all my 80's cartoons and what I have noticed is during scenes with motion, there is this blurring effect. I think the term for this is called de-interlacing or interlacing.


I have attached sample screenshots and video so you know what I mean.


My question to yourselves is there such a dvd/blu ray player that will play the dvd correcting this problem? Or does this not exist? I was thinking along the lines of a player with a deinterlace feature or something like that.


I currently have a sony bdp s1200.


If a dvd aplayer that fixes this problem does not exist, then the question is 'how do I watch these cartoons without this distracting issue?' Is there a 3rd party device I can purchase that will iron out the issue?

If the above does not exist my only option is to rip the dvd's and fix them myself with yadif but is going to be incredibly time consuming as I have 100's of episodes from different cartoons. This is even noticeable on Marvel 90's cartoon DVD's such as Spiderman and X-men animated series.

Thanks in advance!

[lordsmurf]

The original DVDs have no such issues that I'm aware of.

[Acehit]

Tell me about it! The treatment of some of these dvds is terrible. I just ran a test to repair them with avisynth, but I'm not skilled enough to remaster these.

[manono]

It's already been deinterlaced. Both your DVD player and your television have deinterlacers built in. What's causing it is field-blending from a poor conversion of a PAL source to NTSC. The way - the only way - to fix it is with an AviSynth unblending script. Here's the important part of the one I used:

QTGMC()
SRestore()

In the future, when sending samples please get the M2V directly from the DVD without repacking it as MKV. And please choose a section from the body of the episode. The intros are often done differently from the episodes themselves.

[Acehit]

Manono, just the man! I did used to use QTGMC, but it took forever to use this as it's higher quality than yadif I understand. I will try again anyway, but can you please give me the full script that you used so I can run a sample? I would really appreciate it buddy. Thank you.

Also when you say don't repack it to mkv, I am assuming you mean don't use makemkv to repack the files in mkv format? but I am using gMKVExtractGUI to extract the video anyway, so why should it make any difference? Then once I extract the video I use DGIndex to make a d2v file. Or am I doing this whole thing wrong? I'm not an expert or anything I just have a bit if knowledge here and there.

[hello_hello]

It's already been deinterlaced. Both your DVD player and your television have deinterlacers built in. What's causing it is field-blending from a poor conversion of a PAL source to NTSC. The way - the only way - to fix it is with an AviSynth unblending script. Here's the important part of the one I used:

QTGMC()
SRestore()

Lately I've been using a method for deblending I found in an old doom9 post so I created a few simple functions to make it easier. Mainly because I'd been encoding some NTSC sources that contained sections of field blended PAL as variable frame rate, and I found SRestore often missed the first second or two of blending in each field blended section. The downside is, you have to manually choose the frames to keep, but for deblending NTSC back to PAL it's only a choice of four, and once you get it right I've found the blending pattern is almost always consistent throughout. If you want to try it... to deblend NTSC back to PAL you'd do something like this:

QTGMC()
FixBlendNTSC(1) # or 2, 3 or 4 accordingly.

# https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=97447

# For deblending NTSC back to PAL the choices are 1 thru 4.
# For deblending PAL back to NTSC the choices are 1 thru 10.

#==== PAL-Film Blended Into NTSC 59.94i ==================================================

function FixBlendNTSC(clip orig, int "Select")
{
Select = default(Select, 3)
assert(1 <= Select <= 4, """ FixBlendNTSC: "Select" value must be 1, 2, 3 or 4 """)
Selected = (Select - 1)
orig.changefps(25*4, linear=false)
selectevery(4, Selected)
return last
}

#==== NTSC-Film Blended Into PAL 50i ================================================== ==

function FixBlendPAL(clip orig, int "Select")
{
Select = default(Select, 2)
assert(1 <= Select <= 10, """ FixBlendPAL: "Select" range is 1 through to 10 """)
Selected = (Select - 1)
orig.changefps(24.0/1.001*10, linear=false)
selectevery(10, Selected)
return last
}

#==== NTSC-Progressive (29.97p) Blended Into PAL 50i ========================================

function FixBlendPAL2(clip orig, int "Select")
{
Select = default(Select, 2)
assert(1 <= Select <= 10, """ FixBlendPAL2: "Select" range is 1 through to 10 """)
Selected = (Select - 1)
orig.changefps(30.0/1.001*10, linear=false)
selectevery(10, Selected)
return last
}

[Acehit]

Guys I am really confused by all this. Let me explain what I have done so far and maybe you can help me. I extract the files off the dvd to my computers hard drive using makemkv. I then extract the video using gMKVExtractGUI. I then use DGIndex to make a d2v file. What I normally use is yadif and the script I use is the following,

mpeg2Source("C:\Users\Hits\Desktop\title10_track1_ eng.d2v")
LoadCPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Yadif.dll")
Yadif(mode=1, order=1)
SRestore()

Now the above script does work in fixing the blend issue, but what happens as a result is when the scene pans from one end to the other like a landscape or something, it judders, so I'm obviously missing something or doing something wrong.

Now I can see you all are referring to QTGMC, so I have now downloaded the QTGMC plugin and put in the plugins folder of Avisynth.

Now this is where I am stuck, I don't know what to do from here can someone please just guide me step by step, and break it down in the simplest form possible?

[manono]

mpeg2Source("C:\Users\Hits\Desktop\title10_track1_ eng.d2v")
LoadCPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Yadif.dll")
Yadif(mode=1, order=1)
SRestore()

Now the above script does work in fixing the blend issue, but what happens as a result is when the scene pans from one end to the other like a landscape or something, it judders, so I'm obviously missing something or doing something wrong.

It's BFF.

but I am using gMKVExtractGUI to extract the video anyway, so why should it make any difference?

What? Why create work for yourself? You can both extract the M2V for upload as well as make a D2V project file using DGIndex. Why should it make any difference? Because to use MPEG2Source on the video I have to take time to extract the M2V from the MKV you created. D2V project files made from MPEG-2 video in MKV are unreliable. Just open the VOB files in DGIndex like normal people.

[Vidd]

He-Man is a Filmation cartoon. In 1995, Hallmark acquired the Filmation library. For some stupid reason, Hallmark converted the Filmation library to PAL and then destroyed the original NTSC masters. In 2005, when He-Man was released on DVD by BCI, they had to convert back to NTSC. So the He-Man DVDs are converts, NTSC --> PAL --> NTSC.

It's a shame what Hallmark did. Filmation created many memorable cartoons.

[Acehit]

What does BFF mean? And anyway opening a file from whatever source arguments aside, how do I use QTGMC to fix this? I tried the below script but it's not working. I get an error message saying avysinth open failure, script error, there is no function names "undefined" (QTGMC.avsi, line 244), followed by the line I have in my script, line 2.

Vidd in response to your comments, this is an absolute travesty, the consumer is paying money for this, and these dvd's aren't cheap. But it's not just the he-mans, Ulyses 31, Marvel 90's cartoons and others like Conan the Adventurer all have the same bloody issue. I't's gona take me all year fixing these!

ffVideoSource("C:\Users\Hits\Desktop\title10_track 1_eng.mpg")
QTGMC ()

[davexnet]

Can you provide a new clip from the body of the episode? (as was already mentioned) Titles is useless for analysis
Please provide a clip, 15 seconds, showing some steady, movement if possible

mpg/m2v preferred over mkv

BFF bottom field first. QTGMC has a number of dependencies. Yadif should work

[manono]

What does BFF mean?

A quick look at the Yadif doc would have told you:

order = -1 : field order as Avisynth assumes (default).

= 0 : Bottom field first.

= 1 : Top field first.

how do I use QTGMC to fix this?

Yadif can fix it as well. I showed you the script using QTGMC, but you have to have whatever other filters are needed for your particular version of QTGMC. The version you downloaded should say somewhere.

Based on what Vidd said, if there are PAL versions available maybe you should have acquired them and saved yourself a ton of work.

[Acehit]

Sure here it is, an original mpg sample. I have also attached what I have done with yadif, and as you can tell right at the beginning when the camera pans accross the screen, there is a horrible judder. As far as the blurring goes when there is motion, it's still slightly there but not as bad as it was before, but obviously I am missing something. Don't worry about the incorrect aspect ratio for now that's the least of my worries. The script I used for yadiff is:-

ffVideoSource("C:\Users\Hits\Desktop\sample1.mpg")
LoadCPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Yadif.dll")
Yadif(mode=0, order=1)
SRestore()

yadiff test 2 uses the following

ffVideoSource("C:\Users\Hits\Desktop\sample1.mpg")
LoadCPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Yadif.dll")
Yadif(mode=1, order=1)
SRestore()

manono, you can't buy the complete set on r2 release, and coming back to the original argument of using makemkv, the advantage of using makemkv is that it splits the files up 'as per episode' whereas if I just use DGIndex, I have to manually cut the file into episodes which is actually more work than what you suggest.

[davexnet]

Is this any better? A little less judder perhaps

import("F:\Program Files\AviSynth\plugins\srestore.avs")
Load_Stdcall_plugin("I:\program files\RipBot264v1.17.3\Tools\AviSynth plugins\Yadif\yadif.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\Users\davex\Desktop\extract\sample 1.d2v")
yadif(mode=1)
srestore(frate=25)
blackmanresize(640,480)

[jagabo]

I am missing something...

ffVideoSource("C:\Users\Hits\Desktop\sample1.mpg")
LoadCPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Yadif.dll")
Yadif(mode=0, order=1)
SRestore()

Change order=1 to order=0. And mode=0 to mode=1.

[manono]

...and coming back to the original argument of using makemkv, the advantage of using makemkv is that it splits the files up 'as per episode' whereas if I just use DGIndex, I have to manually cut the file into episodes which is actually more work than what you suggest.

Not if you decrypt the DVD by episode first. When I worked with episodic DVDs, I always did it that way, particularly if subtitles were involved. I might dispute your claim anyway. Isn't your workflow like this:

1. Use MakeMKV on the entire DVD, splitting it into episodes at the same time.
2. Use MKVExtractGUI to split out the audio and video for each episode individually.
3. Use DGIndex to create the D2V project file and then go on from there.

With no subs to worry about you can just open all the VOBs in DGIndex, use the [ and ] buttons to isolate the episodes, make a D2V for each episode and go on from there. And, apparently all your episodes are in the same set of VOBs. That is the exception rather than the rule. More commonly each episode would have its own PGC.

Why upload your funky version when I already gave you the answer to that particular problem? And then jagabo had to spell it out for you later.

[dannyboy48888]

Another reason I try not to use makemkv on DVD is some older shows (Stargate, start trek Voyager S01) only had closed captions in the mpeg stream. It is documented that makemkv for some reason ends up stripping this out of the stream so no subtitles are present. Great program, just not for CC only discs

[davexnet]

Regarding yadif and order= perhaps the OP was not aware that you can step through one frame at a time in Virtualdub and see quite clearly if you have it right (or not)

[Acehit]

Davexnet thank u, ill certainly have a look at it, but u said less judder, that tells me there is still slight judder, anyway u can remove it completely? Manono if you are finding me such hard work than you can simply disappear, maybe i need things spelling out twice because I'm not on par with your knowledge, and as for manuals i find it hard to understand. Take into consideration everybody has different learning levels, i may come accross stupid, and maybe I am, but you are coming accross as patronising so take that on board.

[jagabo]

Low frame rates like 24, 25, even 30 fps are always jerky and flickery during panning shots. Especially when there's no motion blur.

[Acehit]

Is this any better? A little less judder perhaps

import("F:\Program Files\AviSynth\plugins\srestore.avs")
Load_Stdcall_plugin("I:\program files\RipBot264v1.17.3\Tools\AviSynth plugins\Yadif\yadif.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\Users\davex\Desktop\extract\sample 1.d2v")
yadif(mode=1)
srestore(frate=25)
blackmanresize(640,480)

davexnet you said that this has reduced the judder, I download the sample and watched it with a very careful eye on my TV and I personally can't see any judder whatsoever! I think you've hit the nail on the head because the motion blurring is gone too. I do notice a slight hue around edges but that I think I can live with. Are you still convinced there is little judder?

[davexnet]

Just some caution on my part because it's animation, not as easy to be sure (at least for me) but i think you're right didnt see anything obviou

[jagabo]

Is this any better? A little less judder perhaps

import("F:\Program Files\AviSynth\plugins\srestore.avs")
Load_Stdcall_plugin("I:\program files\RipBot264v1.17.3\Tools\AviSynth plugins\Yadif\yadif.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\Users\davex\Desktop\extract\sample 1.d2v")
yadif(mode=1)
srestore(frate=25)
blackmanresize(640,480)

davexnet you said that this has reduced the judder, I download the sample and watched it with a very careful eye on my TV and I personally can't see any judder whatsoever! I think you've hit the nail on the head because the motion blurring is gone too. I do notice a slight hue around edges but that I think I can live with. Are you still convinced there is little judder?

It's the same script you yourself gave in post #7, except for the field order which you were already told to change. frate=25 is the default given a 59.94 fps input to Yadif(). The BlackmanResize() will have no effect on the smoothness of the video.

[Acehit]

Nonetheless! I owe you all a massive thank you. Because of all your help I now have the unique formula to fix every single episode and enjoy them as close to its truest form. Thank you!! Not only that, I can use this script to fix all my other cartoon dvd's like spiderman, ulyses 31, x-men and the rest. It will take me forever but it will be worth it.

[jagabo]

Nonetheless! I owe you all a massive thank you. Because of all your help I now have the unique formula to fix every single episode and enjoy them as close to its truest form. Thank you!! Not only that, I can use this script to fix all my other cartoon dvd's like spiderman, ulyses 31, x-men and the rest.

No, only those that have gone through this type of PAL to NTSC conversion. Which should be a minority of them.

[lordsmurf]

He-Man is a Filmation cartoon. In 1995, Hallmark acquired the Filmation library. For some stupid reason, Hallmark converted the Filmation library to PAL and then destroyed the original NTSC masters. In 2005, when He-Man was released on DVD by BCI, they had to convert back to NTSC. So the He-Man DVDs are converts, NTSC --> PAL --> NTSC.
It's a shame what Hallmark did. Filmation created many memorable cartoons.

^ This is the correct answer.

I completely forgot about that. (In my defense, that was almost 15 years ago.)
Big fan reaction at he-man.org at the time.

[Acehit]

All, I have just encoded the entire 1st season using that script that davexnet came up with, but for some reason it doesn't work with season 2 episodes and I don't know why! Any ideas anyone? do I need to modify the script in anyway? The script I am using which worked perfectly for season 1 is

mpeg2Source("C:\Users\Hits\Desktop\title00_track1_ eng.d2v")
LoadCPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Yadif.dll")
Yadif(mode=1)
SRestore()

I have attached a small segmet of the first episode of season 2 so you can also test for yourselves, it's bizzare.

[davexnet]

Looks as if the fields in each frame are identical, ie. it's progressive with blends. The previous method will not work.
I don't have a good solution, wait for further input.

[Acehit]

Thanks davexnet! I even tried,

mpeg2Source("C:\Users\Hits\Desktop\title00_track1_ eng.d2v")
LoadCPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Yadif.dll")
Yadif(mode=1, order=1)
SRestore()

but the above doesn't work either, none of my scripts work. Obviously the guys that put these to disc used a different method for Season 2, god knows why. Let me know if you find one that works.

[manono]

davexnet already mentioned your new source is progressive and the fields have already been blended together. That is, there's no point in bobbing it as both fields/frames will be identical. It's already been blend deinterlaced. This is something you could have easily discovered for yourself by putting on the bobber alone.

To further complicate things, it was blend deinterlaced from a PAL source. SRestore does have a mode that fixes blend deinterlacing, but from NTSC sources (2 of 5 frames blended together). ExBlend does claim to be able to fix blend deinterlacing from PAL sources (2 of 6 frames blended together), and it's worked for me in the past, but in this case it didn't work worth a damn. Unless someone comes up with something else, I think this one can't be fixed.