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  1. Hi Guys - i am Confused with this CPU or GPU , i tested it by my Intel HD Graphic but the final quality was not like x264 and i dont have Nvidia or AMD GPUs and i cant test with these GPUs and i cant buy just for testing ... please help me with this - i found some videos on this forum that was encoded with NVEnc but in 3kbps it was sh.t andi couldnt find the source . if you guys can test it and put them here with the source please do it if you can not but you tested before please tell me which is better (x264-NVEnc-QSVEnc-or GPU - CPU)

    thanks a lot
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  2. x264 is cpu/software based encoding and quality wise better than gpu based encoders from Intel (QSV), NVIDIA (NVEnc) and AMD (VCE).
    If I had to rank all of them quality wise I would probably rank them like this:
    x264 > QSV > NVEnc > VCE, where the difference between QSV and NVEnc is not that much, but AMD usually is way worse.

    Only reason I see to use GPU encoding is when your machine isn't fast enough for you liking and/or your cpu is already occupied or not up for the task.
    users currently on my ignore list: deadrats, Stears555
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  3. CPU encoding is focused on quality where GPU encoding is focused on speed - if you can accept lower quality or higher final bitrate then GPU encoder will be faster, if your goal is highest possible quality at lowest possible bitrate then CPU based encoder will be closer to your goal at a cost of encoding time.
    Last edited by pandy; 10th Feb 2018 at 03:43.
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  4. Member Bernix's Avatar
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    Hi,
    yes as mentioned before, Nvenc is very good for capturing video for example in OBS studio. Or if you have 4 hours long video in 720p with several GB and you can get similar quality with smaller bitrate with Nvenc Hevc at lightning speed. But better is to use CPU based encoding (x265) but it will last several times longer. So if Nvenc Hevc last for 4 hours video about 30 min or less, with x265 it can last several hours (depending on your computer specs and encoder settings).
    Upload some video and I can encode it in avidemux with both Nvenc (but in avidemux is setting for both nvenc (h264, h265) very limited. Just quality, average bitrate and max bitrate. Nvenc has many more option over 30 I guess.

    Bernix
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  5. Thank You Guys for Helping me
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    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    CPU encoding is focused on quality where GPU encoding is focused on speed - if you can accept lower quality or higher final bitrate then GPU encoder will be faster, if your goal is highest possible quality at lowest possible bitrate then CPU based encoder will be closer to your goal at a cost of encoding time.
    Question: is GPU encoding same as hardware acceleration and/or CUDO?
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  7. Explorer Case's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pasja View Post
    Question: is GPU encoding same as hardware acceleration and/or CUDO?
    Yes, mostly. Hardware acceleration can be anything other than the main CPU, but it often refers to the on-board GPU. CUDA is a brand-specific way of using the Nvidia cards to offloads tasks (not just video encoding).
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  8. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Selur View Post
    where the difference between QSV and NVEnc is not that much, but AMD usually is way worse.
    Depends on the VCE used with AMD GPUs. VCE 2.0 supports H.264 B-frames, but VCE 1.0 and VCE 3.0 do not.
    Last edited by KarMa; 11th Feb 2018 at 02:34.
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  9. To add to what's already been said, there are no comprehensive quality tests of Intel's Quick Sync nor AMD's AMF encoders. There was some anecdotal evidence of relatively poor quality from users on various forums, but a closer inspection of the complaints shows that they barely knew how to use the encoders in question and were using sources of questionable value, i.e. already previously heavily compressed sources they had downloaded from some torrent site.

    The only comprehensive test involving Intel's Quick Sync was done by MSU when they used a Sky Lake based system and in that test Intel's QS HEVC encoder beat out both x265 and x264. There was some questions surrounding those tests, such as whether the $5000 QS software used produced superior quality compared to open source solutions based on FFMPEG.

    I think any discussion involving hardware encoders based on hardware found on discrete GPUs is effectively a moot point thanks to the price of add in video cards skyrocketting due to the crypto mining craze that is unlikely to subside anytime soon.

    However, I do think encoding solutions based on integrated graphics, such as those found on Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, AMD's soon to be released Zen based APU's and Intel's Intel cpu AMD gpu frankenchip may actually be viable.
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  10. Originally Posted by pasja View Post
    Question: is GPU encoding same as hardware acceleration and/or CUDO?
    This is more complex - nowadays GPU are equipped with dedicated block to HW decode and encode videos - and general assumption is that HW encode use this dedicated block however you can imagine using GPU general computational capabilities. CUDA is this kind of API where GPU can be used for GPGPU i.e. as CPU replacement, alternative API's to CUDA exist, for example OpenCl which is not HW agnostic ( CUDA works only on NVidia HW).
    You can use CPU, you can use dedicated HW video encoder/decoder or you can use GPU as CPU - all those methods have own limitations and CPU seem to be most flexible approach where HW encoder/decoder seem to offer lowest flexibility - GPGPU seem to be somewhere in between.
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  11. Member Bernix's Avatar
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    Hi,
    Nvenc 265 for example is priceless when you have some weaker CPU. I have i5-6500 which isn't weakest but also not stronger. 720x480 video, 2 parallel, you can get with HQ (which i believe is pseudo 2-pass encoding) with average and max bitrate, reference frame set to max 16 (P-frames), with 1050ti you get around 500fps. And because 2 videos in parallel it is 1000fps total. Which means 40seconds/second in 25fps case. It means bit more than 2 mins for standard movie duration. Also priceless when you need just hardcode subtitles for someone who's TV doesn't support text subtitles and have not PC (older relatives). Or for less important content, that you have stored somewhere in high quality to keep it on HDD for occasionally watch it (TV series, video clips, short cartoon series, anime and anything) and don't spend too much space. I'm watching some TV series when working. So not much pay attention on quality. And space saved is enormous. With AAC-HEv2 at 48kbps you get even smaller files. Nero is for this purpose and cheap sound speakers enough. But encoding time is "almost" same as video encoding.
    For example one series containing 41 episodes bit over 20min each, from 1969, it was question of few minutes (about 3/4 of hour), size at half, and quality much better than 50%.

    Bernix
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    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    ...however you can imagine using GPU general computational capabilities. CUDA is this kind of API where GPU can be used for GPGPU i.e. as CPU replacement...
    Would this mean that x264- and x265 encoding is possible by - or accelerated by - an nVidia videocard with these so-called CUDA cores?
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  13. Originally Posted by Ennio View Post
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    ...however you can imagine using GPU general computational capabilities. CUDA is this kind of API where GPU can be used for GPGPU i.e. as CPU replacement...
    Would this mean that x264- and x265 encoding is possible by - or accelerated by - an nVidia videocard with these so-called CUDA cores?
    Theoretically it is possible to port at least some part of x264 or x265 to some GPU computational API however in general GPU's architecture is different than CPU's and they may be less efficient than CPU's (GPU architecture make them perfect workhorse for very narrow class of computational problems). Side to this there are other limitations, mostly related to way how GPU is connected to CPU - theoretically APU (hybrid CPU/GPU) may be less impacted as they are more integrated with remain blocks.
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  14. Yes. x264 has an option to use the GPU (via OpenCL) but the speedup is maybe a low, single-digit percentage. I don't use it - it's off by default and you risk errors because it is less tested and depends on GPU drivers and has more energy usage. For x265 GPU encoding is not free.
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  15. Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
    Yes. x264 has an option to use the GPU (via OpenCL) but the speedup is maybe a low, single-digit percentage. I don't use it - it's off by default and you risk errors because it is less tested and depends on GPU drivers and has more energy usage. For x265 GPU encoding is not free.
    staxrip is free and does a great job with gpu encoded x265 when setup right
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  16. StaxRip does not offer x265 GPU encoding. x265 is the name of a specific software encoder implementation of the HEVC/H.265 standard.

    StaxRip offers HEVC/H.265 encoding via separate softwares called NVEncC, QSVEnc and VCEEnc.
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  17. Member Bernix's Avatar
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    Yes sneaker is right. And h265 GPU accelerated is almost in each nowadays GUIs. When you think about video encoders as transport so all encoders are transport vehicles. H264 is say motorcycles and x264 is Honda. H265 can be cars and x265 is F1-McLaren, and Nvenc Hevc is like Jeep. (Don't compare speed I was choose those more like value and quality and to let you introduce the difference).

    Bernix
    Last edited by Bernix; 12th Feb 2018 at 07:17. Reason: thing-think
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    Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
    StaxRip does not offer x265 GPU encoding...

    StaxRip offers HEVC/H.265 encoding via separate softwares called NVEncC, QSVEnc and VCEEnc.
    Indeed, as I found out recently. Even before having the opportunity to play around with a friend's GTX 1080 Ti pc I learned that it could not be used for "hardware accelerated" x265 encoding.
    These kind of cards would have a dedicated chip for HEVC encoding using NVEnc, so I nevertheless gave it a go with HandBrake.
    The encoding speeds were crazy, but I didn't like the quality. Hereby I directly mention that assumably these criterea can be changed by adjusting quality settings so quality will increase. Not having much time, I just used some standard "quality" presets.

    x265 encoding with my current Core i7 2600K pc (beefed up to 4,4 GHz) is soooo slow. If I'm thinking of a next pc build that is "4K/UHDBD/HDR/HEVC etc." proof, I am wondering about which processor, but also, how many?
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  19. Originally Posted by Ennio View Post
    The encoding speeds were crazy, but I didn't like the quality.
    Please elaborate - quality should be comparable to x264 (x265) only higher bitrate required however if you not limited by bitrate then NVEnc is not worse than other h.264(h.265) encoder IMHO.
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  20. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    Originally Posted by Ennio View Post
    The encoding speeds were crazy, but I didn't like the quality.
    Please elaborate - quality should be comparable to x264 (x265) only higher bitrate required however if you not limited by bitrate then NVEnc is not worse than other h.264(h.265) encoder IMHO.
    Just about any codec is better with more bitrate. But since disk space is not free, smaller for the same quality is better.
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  21. Member Bernix's Avatar
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    Just about any codec is better with more bitrate. But since disk space is not free, smaller for the same quality is better.
    Not only discs space are not for free, but also tv frequencies and any bandwidth, internet or mobile phone. So in feature we will have more channels in higher quality with same bandwidth. And that is why is size, quality and also decoding speed important. Can imagine format better than h265 that is better but with nowadays HW unable to play smoothly in real time not mention real time encoding.
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  22. Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    Just about any codec is better with more bitrate. But since disk space is not free, smaller for the same quality is better.
    True but OP didn't specified anything above encoding speed and quality as such seem bitrate to be not so important.
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    Hey guys. I just happened to stumble upon this thread and the timing couldn't be more perfect. I have been encoding mkv files to mp4 using vidcoder for years using x264 and now wanting to do more x265 since I am now encoding 4K quality. Quality is very important to me so I am modifying the advanced video settings, producing high quality 1080P mp4 I am happy with. I am doing this with an i7-4770k processor and each file takes 5-7 hours on average to complete depending on the size of the mkv that I encode. I want to be able to encode faster without compromising quality like everyone else and I am particular to quality.

    I've never used Staxrip and am intrigued about adding a graphics card to my current system utilizing nVidia's H.264 encoding which from what I am reading would speed up encode time but is not the same quality as cpu based x264 encoding. After doing research and looking at Handbrake benchmark tests both for x264 and x265 encoding, the AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950x rips through encoding and would be a night and day difference from my Intel i7-4770k and much faster than Intel's i7-7700k and i7-8700k processors. What I'd like to know is if I added an nVidia card to my current system that nVidia's codecs can take advantage of, how much faster would my encode times be and can I tweak the settings where the quality would be very similar to what I am used to unless I looked at the difference with a microscope.

    Please advise.
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  24. i had very good quality encodes through staxrip to be fair i was suprised how good the nvenc x265 encodes looked but the cpu always won and i always went back for better quality, time wise a 2 hour 1080p x265 nvenc encode took about 26 minutes - where the same encode size bitrate wise ect took 3 hours on my threadripper 1950x cpu encode
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  25. CPU encoding is capable of producing higher quality.
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  26. Originally Posted by Bernix View Post
    I have i5-6500 which isn't weakest but also not stronger.
    I happened to come back to this thread and realized you have a Skylake! This is the Quick Sync version MSU tested and found that it could beat both x264+placebo and x265+very slow.

    How about doing this forum a solid and run some Quick Sync tests with your i5-6500, I think this forum would welcome to have some independent testing of this Quick Sync version.
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  27. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    Originally Posted by Bernix View Post
    I have i5-6500 which isn't weakest but also not stronger.
    I happened to come back to this thread and realized you have a Skylake! This is the Quick Sync version MSU tested and found that it could beat both x264+placebo and x265+very slow.

    How about doing this forum a solid and run some Quick Sync tests with your i5-6500, I think this forum would welcome to have some independent testing of this Quick Sync version.
    MSU was using some additional expensive Intel software to encode with, which I forget the name to atm. So that might have of had an effect.
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  28. Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    MSU was using some additional expensive Intel software to encode with, which I forget the name to atm. So that might have of had an effect.
    Yes, the Intel Media Server Studio, it used to cost 5 grand now the 2017 edition is listed as 4 grand. But that's the really interesting part, whether or not the free, open source implimentations, like vaapi, or libmfx, accesible from within ffmpeg can get similar results.

    If he's willing and on Windows, it's easy for him to fire up Staxrip, choose the most aggresive settings and give us an idea of how good or bad Quick Sync is relative to x264 and x265.
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  29. Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    Yes, the Intel Media Server Studio, it used to cost 5 grand now the 2017 edition is listed as 4 grand. But that's the really interesting part, whether or not the free, open source implimentations, like vaapi, or libmfx, accesible from within ffmpeg can get similar results.
    I heard it's free now for the 2018 r1 community version , which also includes HEVC

    What's New in Intel® Media Server Studio 2018
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    .
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    Quality Analysis Tools, HEVC Codec Now Free in Intel® Media SDK for Windows

    In this 2018 update, the features and capabilities for Windows applications in the previous Intel Media Server Studio 2017 version are now merged into the Intel Media SDK for Windows, with significant enhancements for 2018. This is a huge benefit for these users, as many features such as the performance and quality analyzers (Intel® VTune Analyzer and Video Quality Caliper) and HEVC codec, were previously available only via paid licenses and are now offered for FREE. Windows application developers are encouraged to download and use the new free Intel Media SDK 2018 for Windows to take full advantage of these features.
    https://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2018/03/07/whats-new-in-intel-media-server-studio-2018-r1
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