Why are movies at 720p richer in color than 1080p?

[Vz47899]

Why do 1080p movies have a washed out look when compared to 720p movies. I've tested them side by side and every time 720p movies are richer in color. Is there something missing in 1080p movies? Or is it the software? I used MakeMkv and Handbrake for my backups.

[poisondeathray]

Why do 1080p movies have a washed out look when compared to 720p movies. I've tested them side by side and every time 720p movies are richer in color. Is there something missing in 1080p movies? Or is it the software? I used MakeMkv and Handbrake for my backups.

You usually can't test them side by side, because you will be using 2 different renderers. For example, if you opened the 720p version first then the 1080p version next, change the order by opening the 720p version first and the 720p version will probably look washed out. Check one at a time

[Vz47899]

The test was done on two different laptops at the same time and two different televisions at the same time. And both times the 720p had better color than the 1080p. The only thing going for the 1080p was the resolution, which looked a little better than the 720p.

[poisondeathray]

The test was done on two different laptops at the same time and two different televisions at the same time. And both times the 720p had better color than the 1080p. The only thing going for the 1080p was the resolution, which looked a little better than the 720p.

Are the laptops the same model, calibrated the same way, same drivers, same settings, same display ? Or are the TV's setup the same way, same model ? There is wide variation between displays with the same exact video

Switch the setups - If 720p was viewed on laptop A , then watch it on laptop B , same for the TV . Make sure you are viewing at the same angle and distance

If you still think there is a difference, it might be you did some different processing somewhere. If you cut a sample of both videos corresponding to the same section, and upload them, someone will take a look and examine if there is an actual difference

[Vz47899]

Both laptops are the same model and have the same configuration. The tv's do differ but they have the same result. I also took a screenshot of both the 720p and 1080p on my laptop, see attachments:

[poisondeathray]

This looks like a Rec601 vs 709 mismatch. Notice the "reds" are slightly shifted

What software are you using to playback, what decoder . Check the settings to see if they match

A "washed out look" description usually implies elevated black level; that's not the case here

[Vz47899]

I use Media Player Classic Home Cinema

[JVRaines]

The reds are shifted toward yellow in the 1080 version, which makes them appear lighter. Impossible to say why without confirming your encoder settings.

[poisondeathray]

I use Media Player Classic Home Cinema

Yes, but there are many settings that could explain what you are seeing within mpchc alone


The short answer is they should look the same in terms of levels and color.

If all you did was put it though handbrake for the 720p version, and makemkv for the 1080p version, it's more likely a playback onfiguration issue . This is the most common explanation . (although other common ways this can occur is an intermediate RGB step with the wrong matrix conversion)

But check the files with mediainfo (view=>text) to see that the correct metadata is there . Maybe handbrake messed up . Some renderers pay attention the metadata (e.g. madvr)

In mpchc , check that the renderer is the same for both, and both are using the same decoding pathway. Push "O" for options , look under playback => output . For example, if one was using madvr, and the other overlay mixer, etc....that could explain the difference. If you make changes, don't forget to exit and restart mpchc

If you want to determine right away whether or not if it was a processing issue somewhere, cut a small sample of each video with mkvmerge and upload them and someone will look at it

[jagabo]

Poisondeathray is correct. It's a rec.601 vs. rec.709 issue. The question is whether it's wrong in the videos themselves or if the players using different matrices for some reason. Players usually use rec.709 for HD, rec.601 for SD. But when the resolution is somewhere in between it's anyone's guess what they'll use. MPCHC may be seeing the height of the SD version is less than 720 pixels and assuming it's SD -- so using a rec.601 matrix instead of rec.709. It's always best to flag the colormatrix in your encodings. That tells the player which matrix to use (though not all players pay attention to the flag). In Handbrake you can the flag to the extra x264 options with colormatrix=bt709 or colormatrix=smpte170m.

[Vz47899]

Found it! Changed the following in Playback Output section:

From
Output - DirectShow Video - Enhanced Video Renderer (custom presenter)

To
Output - DirectShow Video - System Default

The color is the same on both now.

[jagabo]

Found it! Changed the following in Playback Output section:

From
Output - DirectShow Video - Enhanced Video Renderer (custom presenter)

To
Output - DirectShow Video - System Default

The color is the same on both now.

But I suspect it's wrong. I believe your 1080p image has correct colors.

[hello_hello]

If the laptops are running XP, I'm pretty sure MadVR is the only renderer that'll pay attention to any colorimetry data.
And the rules for displaying video with HD colorimetry are a bit retarded. I think both the width and height have to exceed 1200x678 or thereabouts to be considered HD, so a 1280x536 HD video would display with the wrong colours (if you encode it without cropping the black borders as 1280x720 it'll probably display the same as the 1080p version).

I'd go back to using the EVR renderer, and maybe try opening the MPC-HC video decoder configuration "Internal filers/Video decoder" and disable all the output types except the RGB ones, then restart MPC-HC. That'll get the LAV decoder to convert to RGB instead of the renderer and it'll hopefully make better colorimetry choices based on resolution, plus I think it'll obey any colorimetry info written to the video stream, assuming that's not happening now.

[poisondeathray]

How were the TV's set up ? Were the laptops playing and connect to the TV's as displays, or something else ?

[Vz47899]

How were the TV's set up ? Were the laptops playing and connect to the TV's as displays, or something else ?

The laptops weren't directly connected to the TV's, I used a media player for that.

[poisondeathray]

How were the TV's set up ? Were the laptops playing and connect to the TV's as displays, or something else ?

The laptops weren't directly connected to the TV's, I used a media player for that.

Was this a set to box media player ? What kind of media player? or was it running mpchc as well ? And you said the media player / TV combo exhibited the same issue ?

[Vz47899]

The media player is one of those you can find on ebay (there made in china). Yes, it exhibit the same color difference, that's why I thought it was the files.