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  1. Hello guys!

    I've been reading this forum a lot for past month but didn't register and now the day has come. First of all, thank you for the wealth of info that you have been posting over the years.

    Now to the issue at hand: I've been using a Chinese replica of EasyCap and VirtualDub to digitalize my PAL VHS. It worked acceptably well except of the static background noise (idk, how to properly name it). So I decided to ditch the EasyCap clone and get myself a Diamond AMD ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB 2.0, since many of you hyped it. Used the Vista drivers and it now works on my Win 10 64-bit (thanks for the heads up). Nevertheless, I now have a problem. First of all, in VirtualDub I cannot set and video mode for PAL except PAL-M which also cuts down the resolution to NTSC-M. So I'm losing 20% of the screen. Weirdly enough, the NTSC-M mode now shows the picture properly (from my PAL VCR) but just like PAL-M it cuts 20%. Is there a workaround which I don't know of or am I doomed to lose the difference in the PAL vs NTSC resolution?

    Best wishes,
    Nick
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  2. Member
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    While I have a Diamond ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB 2.0, none of my video equipment can output a PAL analog signal to test it with. If you think the problem is somehow related to Virtualdub, you could try AmarecTV or MPC-HC.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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  3. Did you try Video -> Set Custom Format and setting 576 lines? Or try using AmarecTV instead?
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  4. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Did you try Video -> Set Custom Format and setting 576 lines? Or try using AmarecTV instead?
    Thanks for the recommendation for AmarecTV. I haven't used it before but gave it a try right now. The results are the same in Amarec and in VirtualDub with "Custom Format" (I also didn't know about Custom Format before, thanks). Sadly it doesn't look good when I set 576 lines:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tjAj6nQueOaxqGzZedDAvRf6SPK_jsey/view?usp=sharing

    Instead of getting the full picture, I get this at the bottom.
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  5. Are you playing an NTSC tape? PAL VCRs play NTSC tapes as PAL60 -- 480 scan lines with NTSC timing but with PAL chroma carrier.
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  6. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Are you playing an NTSC tape? PAL VCRs play NTSC tapes as PAL60 -- 480 scan lines with NTSC timing but with PAL chroma carrier.
    I'm from Eastern Europe, the tape and the VCR are PAL.

    Btw, this is (almost) the same screenshot captured with EasyCrap. You can see the real estate that I'm losing.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ibBZTJOe4vYrwlKE-SYhHtkjrIc39PNP/view?usp=sharing
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    What kind of capture card caps atg 692x558. It's not even a height of mod4. Did you resize the image? How do we know what's bei9ng lost from that image?

    That image looks awful. No wonder they call it EasyCrap. It should be obvious that there's no line tbc, either.
    - My sister Ann's brother
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  8. Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    What kind of capture card caps atg 692x558. It's not even a height of mod4. Did you resize the image? How do we know what's bei9ng lost from that image?

    That image looks awful. No wonder they call it EasyCrap. It should be obvious that there's no line tbc, either.
    Check out my post with the link from above. You can see the missing part when comparing to EC.
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    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    Check out my post with the link from above. You can see the missing part when comparing to EC.
    I get all that, but the screwy frames are only one of many more problems you have with your captures. Those defects are not just common with poor capture methods but are painfully obvious in your images. Maybe you should research a little deeper into what analog digitizing is about. Your results will look worse than your tapes. Is that the way you want to immortalize your family's memories?
    Last edited by LMotlow; 27th Jan 2018 at 04:28.
    - My sister Ann's brother
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  10. Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    Check out my post with the link from above. You can see the missing part when comparing to EC.
    I get all that, but the screwy frames are only one of many more problems you have with your captures. Those defects are not just common with poor capture methods but are painfully obvious in your images. Maybe you should research a little deeper into what analog digitizing is about. Your results will look worse than your tapes. Is that the way you want to immortalize your family's memories?
    I want them to be as good as possible. This is exactly why I threw EasyCap away and I've ordered myself the ATI TV Wonder 600. But it seems to chop the image, this is exactly why I created the thread: to know if I'm doing something wrong (in VirtualDub or otherwise). Surely, if there is a better guide to digitalizing and I'm doing something wrong, please mention in -- I'm always willing to learn and improve. Speaking of which, my first captures were done following this guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn_TDa9zY1c
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  11. Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    What kind of capture card caps atg 692x558. It's not even a height of mod4. Did you resize the image? How do we know what's bei9ng lost from that image?

    That image looks awful. No wonder they call it EasyCrap. It should be obvious that there's no line tbc, either.
    I cropped the video in VirtualDub, it had "bad parts" -- artifacts (?) at the edges. It was obtained using the guide posted above with VirtualDub and through EasyCap. Instead of NTSC_M, I chose PAL_B in VirtualDub.

    If it's of any help I snapped a picture on the phone of (almost) the same frame from the VCR + TV:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JA8t7erB0qrdPMTh0UzdhiCi-3JTP1jO/view?usp=sharing
    Last edited by BlackCross; 27th Jan 2018 at 05:21.
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  12. All I can suggest is you go through everything on the Device and Video menus and look for any PAL/NTSC related settings. Frame rate (25 vs. 29.97) frame size (720x576 vs. 720x480).
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  13. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    All I can suggest is you go through everything on the Device and Video menus and look for any PAL/NTSC related settings. Frame rate (25 vs. 29.97) frame size (720x576 vs. 720x480).
    Thanks a lot jagabo. Thanks to your directions I solved the issue with VirtualDub. It turns out that (during Capture mode with my ATI) within Capture Filter I couldn't set anything other than NTSC_M but when I used Custom Format and set the resolution to 720x576 *only then* it allowed me to select PAL_B in Capture Filter -- which is exactly what I needed.

    By the way, should I tick the VCR Input option under Capture Filter?
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  14. I don't know what the VCR option does. If you want, upload a pair of videos captured with both and I'll take a look at them.

    Also, it would be good for everybody to see the difference between the EasyCap and the ATI 600. Capture as YUY2 or YV12 and compress with a lossless codec like UT Video Codec. Also disable any noise filtering, sharpening filters, etc. -- so what we see is the capture devices, not any other filtering.
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  15. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I don't know what the VCR option does. If you want, upload a pair of videos captured with both and I'll take a look at them.

    Also, it would be good for everybody to see the difference between the EasyCap and the ATI 600. Capture as YUY2 or YV12 and compress with a lossless codec like UT Video Codec. Also disable any noise filtering, sharpening filters, etc. -- so what we see is the capture devices, not any other filtering.
    Sorry for the delayed response. Here are the two versions of capture with ATI and EasyCAP with PAL_B mode, UT codec and PAL cassette (I disabled everything you specified and the VCR option too). Still cannot get the audio timing right with the ATI but working on it, trial and error.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kneDqeLyxsmgBZI_4lNxyRQ6Ia7WGnxi?usp=sharing
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    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    Still cannot get the audio timing right with the ATI but working on it, trial and error.
    Using AmaRecTV instead of Virtualdub may produce captures with better the audio and video synchronization.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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  17. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    Still cannot get the audio timing right with the ATI but working on it, trial and error.
    Using AmaRecTV instead of Virtualdub may produce captures with better the audio and video synchronization.
    I cannot seem to be able to set up AmaRecTV properly. I just get the same cut NTSC image that I've had before with VirtualDub. I lose 20% of the image of the PAL source.
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    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    Still cannot get the audio timing right with the ATI but working on it, trial and error.
    Using AmaRecTV instead of Virtualdub may produce captures with better the audio and video synchronization.
    I cannot seem to be able to set up AmaRecTV properly. I just get the same cut NTSC image that I've had before with VirtualDub. I lose 20% of the image of the PAL source.
    Image
    [Attachment 44539 - Click to enlarge]

    Image
    [Attachment 44540 - Click to enlarge]


    Sometimes even after setting everything up correctly, it is necessary to reboot the PC with the ATI TV Wonder HD 600 still plugged in and re-start AmaRecTV.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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  19. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    Still cannot get the audio timing right with the ATI but working on it, trial and error.
    Using AmaRecTV instead of Virtualdub may produce captures with better the audio and video synchronization.
    I cannot seem to be able to set up AmaRecTV properly. I just get the same cut NTSC image that I've had before with VirtualDub. I lose 20% of the image of the PAL source.
    Image
    [Attachment 44539 - Click to enlarge]

    Image
    [Attachment 44540 - Click to enlarge]


    Sometimes even after setting everything up correctly, it is necessary to reboot the PC with the ATI TV Wonder HD 600 still plugged in and re-start AmaRecTV.
    Thanks! Did that before, tried again: same result. The problem seems to be that when I change from NTSC_M to PAL_B in Device Setting -- it keeps reverting back to NTSC_M for some reason. IDK what to change at this point -- experimented via trial and error with a lot of settings. I had the same problem in VirtualDub but the "set custom format" option has helped.
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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  20. Also, even after deinterlacing I'm left with these ugly horizontal colored lines. Am I doing something wrong?
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    I just tried changing the resolution and frame rate shown in the box under "Format", above the list of supported resolutions in AmaRecTV's config for the Graph1(Device) tab. Changing the resolution and frame rate has an effect, causing my NTSC signal to look similar to your incorrectly displayed PAL signal. Changing "Video" to PAL B won't stick for me, but I have an NTSC signal. I can't test with a PAL signal to see what happens.

    I always capture interlaced video as interlaced. I have never played with deinterlacing during capture.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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  22. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I always capture interlaced video as interlaced. I have never played with deinterlacing during capture.
    I captured it as interlaced with VirtualDub and then when deinterlacing later (with VirtualDub) I obtain this result.
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  23. Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    Here are the two versions of capture with ATI and EasyCAP with PAL_B mode, UT codec and PAL cassette (I disabled everything you specified and the VCR option too).
    Thanks for uploading those. The EasyCAP has more dot crawl/herringbone artifacts but fewer sync issues. The ATI has crushed some darks but you may be able to fix that with the video proc amp settings. The ATI cap has PAL Hanover bars but those are easily fixed with a vertical blur of the chroma.

    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    Still cannot get the audio timing right with the ATI but working on it, trial and error.
    Have you tried playing around with the settings on Capture -> Timing dialog? Getting those right should help. But your best bet may be to get an old Panasonic DVD recorder (ES10, ES15, some others) with a line TBC and frame sync and pass the signal through that, composite in, s-video out. That will go a long way to clean up the dot crawl noise and sync problems.
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  24. Member hech54's Avatar
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    I hate to throw a wrench into the works but don't forget DScaler. I went from pulling my hair out trying to capture lossless with VDub to getting it done in a few hours with DScaler.
    Just a thought.
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  25. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Which version of VirtualDub?
    - 1.10.x has issues
    - FilterMod does too

    Use 1.9.x for capturing.

    I have zero issues with PAL and ATI 600 USB cards.
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  26. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Which version of VirtualDub?
    - 1.10.x has issues
    - FilterMod does too

    Use 1.9.x for capturing.

    I have zero issues with PAL and ATI 600 USB cards.
    1.10.4 (the latest). Not using FilterMod. Will try 1.9.x. Which one of them are you using atm? Can you please screenshot me your "timing" section?

    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    I hate to throw a wrench into the works but don't forget DScaler. I went from pulling my hair out trying to capture lossless with VDub to getting it done in a few hours with DScaler.
    Just a thought.
    Thanks, will try.
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  27. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    1.9.11

    Timing settings are system dependent more than anything else.
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    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    I captured it as interlaced with VirtualDub and then when deinterlacing later (with VirtualDub) I obtain this result.
    Why the hell do you deinterlace???
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  29. Originally Posted by Pinto007 View Post
    Originally Posted by BlackCross View Post
    I captured it as interlaced with VirtualDub and then when deinterlacing later (with VirtualDub) I obtain this result.
    Why the hell do you deinterlace???
    Why not? Youtube and many players don't deinterlace.
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  30. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    1.9.11

    Timing settings are system dependent more than anything else.
    They definitely are but is there a guide that could help? I keep changing them, trial and error, but can't seem to get any solid results. These are my settings on the last capture, which by the way is identical in 1.9.11 and 1.10.4: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KiPz78nWvWVPVhsKwLtmKBHR4fTBKRbX/view?usp=sharing
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