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  1. hi ill, I'm looking for a device to capture 1080p 60fps mp4 (h264) from my satellite... ive seen several devices that capture 1080p in 60p but I'm guessing that the actual capture software on the PC is responsible for the "Heavy lifting" of making the mp4 in real time? ive had bad experiences with such software that slows my PC down to a grind, and drops frames if I even try to load a browser at the same time.

    Is there a capture device that does the h264 conversion inside the actual device, rather than in the PCs software? because that's what I would really want...

    many thanks!
    Blackout
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  2. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Maybe something like the Hauppauge Colossus or Hauppauge Colossus 2. And I'm going to assume that your satellite broadcasts are really 30i, which can be deinterlaced to 60p by your TV or computer.
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  3. hi Karma thank you for responding!

    the Hauppauge Colossus 1 and 2 only capture at 1080 60i, not 1080 60p.

    assuming the satt broadcasts in my country/area are really 30i would be wrong. Ive captured at 30i (and 60i for that matter) eg the ticker across the bottom of the news channel and the result is a far more jerky (30i) or blurry (60i) ticker than broadcast.

    it really needs to be 60p i believe to look the same smoothness and sharpness...

    any other suggestions? Hauppage make the HD PVR60 which captures at 1080 60p, but im not sure if the box does the h264 conversion or the software?

    Kind Regards,
    Blackout
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  4. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    Ive captured at 30i (and 60i for that matter)
    Normally when talking about 60i, you really mean 30 frames per second that are also interlaced. Whether describing it as 30i or 60i, people are referring to the same thing (normally). As I've never heard of a broadcast at 60fps that are interlaced, which would give you a deinterlaced fps of 120. Broadcasters in general are trying to move away from the entire concept of interlacing for next generation 4k stuff. So you just need to be certain that it really is 1080p at 60 progressive frames per second, otherwise you are just going to be capturing interlaced content as progressive which is never good. For reference, not even standard Bluray Videos support 1080p 60p, just 1080p 60i (really 59.94i) which comes out to 30 frames that are interlaced per second.

    As far as progressive 60fps capturing devices, you might look into HDMI capture devices used for recording Xbox One and PS4 game play. But I don't know enough about that to recommend anything.
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    If the satellite receiver outputs 1080p60, then the following capture devices have built-in H.264 encoder chips and are able to capture 1080p60 as 1080p60:
    AVerMedia Live Gamer Portable 2
    AVerMedia Live Gamer Portable 2 Plus
    Hauppauge HD PVR 60
    Elgato HD60
    Elgato HD60 PRO

    I don't know if one of them is better or worse than the rest. All of the above capture audio as 2-channel AAC. All have limited options for capture software -- possibly only the software the manufacturer provides. None of them ignores HDCP, which the satellite receiver will certainly apply to HDMI output for copy protection, so you will need an HDCP stripper too.
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  6. VU+, no need for recording with external device
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  7. Instead raw video capture elementary stream.
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  8. thank you usually that is what I was after!

    do any of these units de-interlace on the fly as well? so if its really 30i then it de-interlaces to 60p?
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    Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    do any of these units de-interlace on the fly as well? so if its really 30i then it de-interlaces to 60p?
    I don't know, but I'm hoping none de-interlace 1080i input. Every capture device that I have seen with a deinterlace feature captures 1080i30/1080i60 as 1080p30, not 1080p60, which means it's discarding half the frames in the process.
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  10. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    thank you usually that is what I was after!

    do any of these units de-interlace on the fly as well? so if its really 30i then it de-interlaces to 60p?
    If you are paying for your sat service and require a decoder box, then chances are you can't capture the actual stream as the stream and the box keep it encyrpted. With FTA Sat service you can capture the stream .ts.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    do any of these units de-interlace on the fly as well? so if its really 30i then it de-interlaces to 60p?
    I don't know, but I'm hoping none de-interlace 1080i input. Every capture device that I have seen with a deinterlace feature captures 1080i30/1080i60 as 1080p30, not 1080p60, which means it's discarding half the frames in the process.
    I know that the Hauppauge Colossus does encode the output as a new H.264 stream, interlaced 30fps. If the input is interlaced.
    Last edited by KarMa; 21st Dec 2017 at 19:25.
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  11. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Unless your satellite can actually give you 1080p 60fps good luck with that and do keep in mind you have to deal with HDCP carp
    I have Sat (Dishnetwork) but no free channel open that do 1080p 60fps as there all VOD carp channel
    None of them do de-interlace you going need high video scaler for that when come to 480i and 1080i
    The best thing to do if you can is to setup the STB to output 720p which give you 60fps as well
    Last edited by SHS; 27th Dec 2017 at 22:54.
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    Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    I know that the Hauppauge Colossus does encode the output as a new H.264 stream, interlaced 30fps. If the input is interlaced.
    I have one, and it does capture 1080i30/60 as 1080i30/60. I think the HD-PVR Colossus may now be out of production because it no longer appears on the "Products" page at Hauppauge's N. America site. It can still be purchased at Hauppauge Computer Work's own Webstore, but is no longer sold by Amazon or Newegg, only third party resellers using their websites.
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  13. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    I know that the Hauppauge Colossus does encode the output as a new H.264 stream, interlaced 30fps. If the input is interlaced.
    I have one, and it does capture 1080i30/60 as 1080i30/60. I think the HD-PVR Colossus may now be out of production because it no longer appears on the "Products" page at Hauppauge's N. America site. It can still be purchased at Hauppauge Computer Work's own Webstore, but is no longer sold by Amazon or Newegg, only third party resellers using their websites.
    Yup that true, you find them on eBay to.
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  14. ok it seems the satt outputs at HDMI 1080i50.

    what if I used this new thing? The Blackmagic Updowncross HD...it says I can convert from 1080i50 to 1080p50....does it essentially de-interlace? or does it just drop frames? anyone know what kind of job it does?


    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1401679-REG/blackmagic_design_convmudcstd_hd_mi...ncross_hd.html
    Last edited by Blackout; 12th May 2018 at 09:43.
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  15. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Nobody support Realtime Deinterlace in hardware
    First Gen HD-PVR and Colossus do not support 1080p at all
    HD-PVR 2 and Colossus 2 support 1080p50p but it recorded as 1080p25
    HD-PVR 60 support 1080p50p

    You need look for Faroudja DCDi Processor, IDT HQV Vida Processor that are found on high end Video Processor Upscaler or A/V Receiver ask on AVSForum about deinterlace processor.
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    Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    ok it seems the satt outputs at HDMI 1080i50.

    what if I used this new thing? The Blackmagic Updowncross HD...it says I can convert from 1080i50 to 108025p....does it essentially de-interlace? or does it just drop frames? anyone know what kind of job it does?


    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1401679-REG/blackmagic_design_convmudcstd_hd_mi...ncross_hd.html
    Interlaced video contains two interlaced fields per frame. There are 2 systems for describing interlaced video. One system counts fields (1080i50), and the other system counts frames (1080i25).

    I told you this earlier, but you don't want a device that converts video from 1080i50 to 108025p. Deinterlacing 1080i50 to 1080p25 would require either throwing away half the fields (resulting in motion that is less smooth than the original) or blending the two fields in each frame together (resulting in combing artifacts) so neither option is desirable.

    For programming which is televised live, such as sports, each field captures a unique moment in time, and when the video is deinterlaced, each field should become a progressive frame so that no picture information is lost. So, if the sat box outputs HDMI at 1080i50, and you want to deinterlace that output so there is no loss of picture information, you want a 1080p50 conversion.

    The Blackmagic Updowncross HD is a video standards converter which is supposed to be able to convert 1080i50 input to 1080p50 output, but it outputs uncompressed video via HDMI or SDI. If you want an H.264 mp4 file, you will also need a capture device to encode the output of the Blackmagic Updowncross HD to H.264. The other problem is that the Blackmagic Updowncross HD appears to be for video only. How are you going to provide audio to the capture device?

    [Edit] I think that the Blackmagic Updowncross HD provides audio after all. I missed this line in the Blackmagic Updowncross HD's product description: "automatic audio delay for perfect AV sync" I guess that means it passes through HDMI audio input with a slight delay to account for the video processing time so that the audio and video output remain in sync.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 12th May 2018 at 10:44.
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    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    Nobody support Realtime Deinterlace in hardware
    First Gen HD-PVR and Colossus do not support 1080p at all
    HD-PVR 2 and Colossus 2 support 1080p50p but it recorded as 1080p25
    HD-PVR 60 support 1080p50p

    You need look for Faroudja DCDi Processor, IDT HQV Vida Processor that are found on high end Video Processor Upscaler or A/V Receiver ask on AVSForum about deinterlace processor.
    The Blackmagic Updowncross HD is a video processor, not a capture device.
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  18. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The Blackmagic Updowncross HD is a video processor, not a capture device.
    Nice now dose it do Realtime Deinterlace
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    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The Blackmagic Updowncross HD is a video processor, not a capture device.
    Nice now dose it do Realtime Deinterlace
    The specs at Blackmagic Design's product page for the Blackmagic Updowncross HD says the following:
    Video Conversion
    Convert any SD and HD input to "720p50, 720p59.94, 720p60 1080p23.98, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29.97, 1080p30, 1080p50, 1080p59.94, 1080p60
    1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60"
    The Updowncross HD is part of Blackmagic Design's professional equipment line. I don't think Blackmagic could get away with saying the above if this product could not properly deinterlace 1080i50 input for conversion to 1080p50 with only a small delay. I can't say whether or not the delay is small enough that gamers would say that the conversion is being done in "real time".
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 12th May 2018 at 11:10.
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  20. Member SHS's Avatar
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    They don't list any kind video processor feature so unless you test one your self you don't know if really support Deinterlace form 1080i 29.79fps to 1080p 60fps or any of the other processor feature like Dotcrawl and so on.

    When come to gaming this best for that is here http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
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    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    They don't list any kind video processor feature so unless you test one your self you don't know if really support Deinterlace form 1080i 29.79fps to 1080p 60fps or any of the other processor feature like Dotcrawl and so on.
    The product description says the Blackmagic Updowncross HD includes "high-quality Teranex conversion algorithms". Blackmagic's Teranex products are real-time broadcast standards converters. No doubt the Updowncross HD lacks some of the features included in Blackmagic's Teranex standards converters, but it is unlikely that they don't include fast, decent deinterlacing and scaling.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 12th May 2018 at 13:42. Reason: typos
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  22. Member SHS's Avatar
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    That nice but I guest some one going have test it just be sure.
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  23. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I told you this earlier, but you don't want a device that converts video from 1080i50 to 108025p. Deinterlacing 1080i50 to 1080p25 would require either throwing away half the fields (resulting in motion that is less smooth than the original) or blending the two fields in each frame together (resulting in combing artifacts) so neither option is desirable.
    thank you usually...i appreciate you chiming in....i know this, actually i didnt ask about converting to 108025p i asked about converting from 1080i50 to 1080p50 (i corrected my post you must have been writing a response at the same time hehe) i mean yes it will still throw away some fields but are tv shows actually filmed in 100 fields per second? or movies filmed interlaced? so im guessing it will throw away frames but they will be redundant?

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The Blackmagic Updowncross HD is a video standards converter which is supposed to be able to convert 1080i50 input to 1080p50 output, but it outputs uncompressed video via HDMI or SDI. If you want an H.264 mp4 file, you will also need a capture device to encode the output of the Blackmagic Updowncross HD to H.264. The other problem is that the Blackmagic Updowncross HD appears to be for video only. How are you going to provide audio to the capture device?
    of course i would use this before the Hauppauge capture device. That was the plan. So the capture device is recieving 1080p50. I could use the HD PVR60 and capture full frame 50p. that is the idea...

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    [Edit] I think that the Blackmagic Updowncross HD provides audio after all. I missed this line in the Blackmagic Updowncross HD's product description: "automatic audio delay for perfect AV sync" I guess that means it passes through HDMI audio input with a slight delay to account for the video processing time so that the audio and video output remain in sync.
    yep. i saw that too. So the question is...does this Blackmagic device just throw away fields or does it de-interlace and if so what method of de-interlacing does it use?
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    Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    thank you usually...i appreciate you chiming in....i know this, actually i didnt ask about converting to 108025p i asked about converting from 1080i50 to 1080p50
    Marketing prefers to use 1080i50 beause it sounds better but 1080i50 video (50 fields per second) is exactly the same as 1080i25 (25 frames per second x 2 fields per frame = 50 fields per second). Correctly deinterlacing either 1080i50 video or 1080i25 video results in 1080p50 unless some fields are discarded.

    Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    (i corrected my post you must have been writing a response at the same time hehe) i mean yes it will still throw away some fields but are tv shows actually filmed in 100 fields per second? or movies filmed interlaced? so im guessing it will throw away frames but they will be redundant?
    You are correct that there is no interlaced TV standard which uses 100 fields per second. Movies and TV shows are usually shot at 24 progressive frames per second. However, televised sports, televised live events and soap operas may be shot at 1080i25/1080i50, in which case deinterlacing to 1080p50 would preserve the video's original fluidity.

    I don't know for certain, but I tend to doubt that the Blackmagic Updowncross HD has the ability to detect and remove duplicate frames or detect telecined content and use inverse telecining to produce progressive content.
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  25. The Blackmagic company is based in Port Melbourne, Melbourne Australia. Its literally around the corner from me, about a 5 minute drive. This new box updowncross HD is a very new product. Theres no manual online that i could find for it. Im going to give them a phone call this week and see if i can get an answer out of them re:de-interlacing. ill post back with the result
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  26. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post

    Marketing prefers to use 1080i50 beause it sounds better but 1080i50 video (50 fields per second)....
    hold it right there...

    i50 = 100 fields per second how i understand it.

    Just like i25 = 50 fields per second.

    read here: http://www.100fps.com/

    "Do you think you record 25 frames per second when you make a movie with your digital camcorder?
    Not quite.
    Your digital camcorder does the following:
    Records 50 pictures per second, intermixing every 2 consecutive pictures (with half the height) into 1 frame.
    capture 25fps=50 fields per second"

    so if capture interlaced 25fps = 50 fields, then it stands to reason that capture of interlaced i50 = also double = 100 fields surely?
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    Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post

    Marketing prefers to use 1080i50 beause it sounds better but 1080i50 video (50 fields per second)....
    hold it right there...

    i50 = 100 fields per second how i understand it.

    Just like i25 = 50 fields per second.

    read here: http://www.100fps.com/

    "Do you think you record 25 frames per second when you make a movie with your digital camcorder?
    Not quite.
    Your digital camcorder does the following:
    Records 50 pictures per second, intermixing every 2 consecutive pictures (with half the height) into 1 frame.
    capture 25fps=50 fields per second"

    so if capture interlaced 25fps = 50 fields, then it stands to reason that capture of interlaced i50 = also double = 100 fields surely?
    According to you, your satellite receiver outputs 1080i50 video. That's 50 frames per second by your reckoning. ...but the DVB-S2 standard has 1080i video at 25 frames per second as its supported 1080i resolution for former PAL countries. HDMI also supports 1080i25 video. So, why is your sat receiver arbitrarily doubling the number of frames in the 1080i25 video it received to output video at 1080i50? The answer is that it isn't.

    As I wrote earlier, there are 2 systems for describing interlaced video. One system counts fields (i.e. 1080i50), and the other system counts frames (i.e. 1080i25). ...and I was not the only one who told you something like that. Look at what Karma wrote in post #4. Yes, it is confusing but 1080i25 and 1080i50 do mean the same thing
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 13th May 2018 at 11:40. Reason: Typed DVB-T2 when I meant DVB-S2
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  28. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    [
    According to you, your satellite receiver outputs 1080i50 video. That's 50 frames per second by your reckoning.
    hi usually.

    my understanding is that its 100 FIELDS per second. When did i rekkon that its 50 FRAMES a second?

    can we just agree that 1080i50 is 100 FIELDS per second first?

    and then try and figure out the rest because it all hinges on that fact.
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  29. Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    so if capture interlaced 25fps = 50 fields, then it stands to reason that capture of interlaced i50 = also double = 100 fields surely?
    The term 50i doesn't mean 100 fields per second. It's simply a new name for 25i, 50 fields per second. One company started marketing with the new name because people think bigger numbers are better. Other had to follow or risk losing sales. 25i and 50i are exactly the same thing.
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  30. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    100fps.com hasn't been updated in ages, so much of it is inaccurate now, even though it was an interesting and helpful site earlier.
    Most new cams these days, esp. Phones, record progressive (frames). Some cams have interlace options, but those are usually relgated to legacy formats, or to the very limit of their bandwidth capability (i.e. 1080i vs 720p).

    Excepting action cams, scientific & pro cams, almost no cams shoot higher than 50/59.94/60 frames. Or fields, same numbers.

    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 13th May 2018 at 09:44.
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