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Guys I wanted to know the ability to encode an audio track in DTS with codec (dca), but I'm having difficulty, I can only in stereo, and not in multi-channels (5.1 or 6).
My belief was that it could be done, but maybe I was wrong or I'm missing something.Thank.
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Marsia MarinerGuest
I don't know how ffmpeg uses libdcaenc, so all I can say is, give a try to ffdcaenc.exe itself.
Download it from https://github.com/filler56789/ffdcaenc-2/releases
Code:[C:\] => ffdcaenc -h FFDCAENC --- experimental 'Coherent Acoustics' compressor. Usage: ffdcaenc -i <input.wav> -o <output.dts> -b <bitrate_kbps> Optional: -l Ignore input length, can be useful when reading from stdin -e Switch output endianess to Little Endian (default is: Big-Endian) -r Reduced Bit Depth for DTS CD format (default is: Full Bit-Depth) -h Print this help screen -c Overwrite the channel configuration (default is: auto-selection) -f Add an additional LFE channel (default: used for 6-channel input) -m Multiple Mono input files (default: -i for multi-channel input file) Use -0 <input.wav> -1 <input.wav> etc. (up to -5) Channels are in ITU order: 0,1,2,3,4,5 --> LF, RF, C, LFE, LS, RS The following mono input file combinations are supported: 1.0 -2 center.wav 1.1 -2 center.wav -3 lfe-wav 2.0 -0 left.wav -1 right.wav 2.1 -0 left.wav -1 right.wav -3 lfe.wav 3.0 -0 left.wav -1 right.wav -2 center.wav 3.1 -0 left.wav -1 right.wav -2 center.wav -3 lfe.wav 4.0 -0 left.wav -1 right.wav -4 ls.wav -5 rs.wav 4.1 -0 left.wav -1 right.wav -4 ls.wav -5 rs.wav -3 lfe.wav 5.0 -0 left.wav -1 right.wav -2 center.wav -4 ls.wav -5 rs.wav 5.1 -0 left.wav -1 right.wav -2 center.wav -4 ls.wav -5 rs.wav -3 lfe.wav -v Show version info REMARKS: The input or output filename can be "-" for stdin/stdout. The bitrate is specified in kilobits per second and may be rounded up -- use floating-point values for bitrates that are not a multiple of 1 kbps. Because the encoder uses a 4-byte granularity, i.e., 32 bits per audio frame (with 512 samples/frame), the ACTUAL bitrate will always be a multiple of: 3 kbps for 48 kHz 2.75625 kbps for 44.1 kHz 2 kbps for 32 kHz 1.5 kbps for 24 kHz 1.378125 kbps for 22.05 kHz 1 kbps for 16 kHz 0.75 kbps for 12 kHz 0.6890625 kbps for 11.025 kHz 0.5 kbps for 8 kHz -- NOTICE: the values 377.25, 503.25, 754.5 and 1509.75 AT _48kHz_ are exceptions. * Available channel-layouts: - 1: A - 2: A, B - 3: L, R - 4: (L+R), (L-R) - 5: Lt, Rt - 6: FC, FL, FR - 7: FL, FR, BC - 8: FC, FL, FR, BC - 9: FL, FR, BL, BR - 10: FC, FL, FR, BL, BR - 11: CL, CR, FL, FR, BL, BR (not supported) - 12: FC, FL, FR, BL, BR, OV (not supported) - 13: FC, BC, FL, FR, BL, BR (not supported) - 14: CL, FC, CR, FL, FR, BL, BR (not supported) - 15: CL, CR, FL, FR, SL1, SL2, SR1, SR2 (not supported) - 16: CL, FC, CR, FL, FR, BL, BC, BR (not supported) * Valid sample rates (in kHz): 8 11.025 12 16 22.05 24 32 44.1 48 * Transmission bitrates (in kbps): 32 56 64 96 112 128 192 224 256 320 384 448 512 576 640 768 960 1024 1152 1280 1344 1408 1411.2 1472 1536 1920 2048 3072 3840 open VBR LOSSLESS -
ffmpeg can encode 5.1 DTS. It uses the number of input channels whenever possible unless you explicitly set something else. So either you set ffmpeg to down-mix to stereo or your source is only stereo. While it is possible to convert to 5.1 I highly recommend you don't. If you want more help post MediaInfo of the source, complete ffmpeg command and log and why exactly you think you need DTS.
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Marsia MarinerGuest
Oooops, the info below is important as well, because ffmpeg's dts encoder is libdcaenc:
source: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/filler56789/ffdcaenc-2/master/DECODING_ISSUES.TXTOriginally Posted by myself -
AC3 will deliver higher quality (unless 1536kbps DTS) and lower bitrate.Originally Posted by Malkovich
Guys I wanted to know the ability to encode an audio track in DTS with codec (dca), but I'm having difficulty, I can only in stereo, and not in multi-channels (5.1 or 6).
My belief was that it could be done, but maybe I was wrong or I'm missing something. Thank.
ffmpeg support DTS encoder - bellow it's capabilities:
Please provide details (your ffmpeg comand line - you can use -report).Code:Encoder dca [DCA (DTS Coherent Acoustics)]: General capabilities: exp Threading capabilities: none Supported sample rates: 8000 16000 32000 11025 22050 44100 12000 24000 48000 Supported sample formats: s32 Supported channel layouts: mono stereo quad(side) 5.0(side) 5.1(side) DCA (DTS Coherent Acoustics) AVOptions: -dca_adpcm <boolean> E...A... Use ADPCM encoding (default false) -
I have a DVD movie with audio track in DTS :
My intention was to create a digital format in *.mp4, with the same audio track in DTS (6 Channels) ...Code:Audio #2 ID : 189 (0xBD)-137 (0x89) Formato : DTS Formato/Informazioni : Digital Theater Systems Modo : 16 Impostazioni formato, Endianness : Big Modo muxing : DVD-Video Durata : 37 min 26s Modalità bitrate : Costante Bitrate : 1.510 kb/s Canali : 6 canali Posizione canali : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE Frequenza campionamento : 48,0 kHz Frame rate : 93,750 FPS (512 SPF) Profondità bit : 24 bit Modo compressione : Con perdita Dimensione della traccia : 404MiB (39%)
I perform the conversion and set the command line with the audio part in this way, using the codec (dca)
Getting this error : [dca @ 00000000011665e0] Specified channel layout '5.1' is not supportedCode:... -map 0:v -map i:0x89 -strict -2 -c:a dca -ac 6 -b:a 384k -ar 48000 -hide_banner "Pulp_Fiction.mp4"
Ok then I edit in this way, and insert "Copy" so that it goes to copy the audio codec of the selected track always with 6 channels (5.1)
And performed the conversion to perfection, with this information :Code:... -map 0:v -map i:0x89 -strict -2 -c:a copy -ac 6 -b:a 384k -ar 48000 -hide_banner "Pulp_Fiction.mp4"
Ok then at this point I wonder, he copied, what he copied ???, he copied the DTS codec, is for what reason if I manually set the audio codec (dca) the conversion goes me error, I am convinced that it is an internal error of the codec (dca) in FFmpeg.Code:Audio ID : 2 Formato : DTS Formato/Informazioni : Digital Theater Systems Modo : 16 Impostazioni formato, Endianness : Big ID codec : mp4a-A9 Durata : 2 o 28 min Modalità bitrate : Costante Bitrate : 1.510 kb/s Canali : 2 canali Channel(s)_Original : 6 canali Posizione canali : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE Frequenza campionamento : 48,0 kHz Frame rate : 93,750 FPS (512 SPF) Profondità bit : 24 bit Modo compressione : Con perdita Dimensione della traccia : 1,56 GiB (49%) Default : Si AlternateGroup/String : 1
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I do not think it's a Bitrate problem, in fact it is not, I use the FFmpeg 3.4 version of 22/09/2017, personally the most stable version for my needs.Originally Posted by Marsia Mariner
1) maybe you're using an outdated version of ffmpegOriginally Posted by Malkovich
OR
2) ffmpeg still sucks at using libdcaenc;
Anyway: 384000 bits/second for six audio channels?
Many people swear that even 754.5 kbps is not good enough for six audio channels...
If the problem is ffmpeg and the internal codec dca, I'll have to do without it, at this point I do not care about a DTS with mono or stereo audio track, it is not convenient to use it for conversions. -
Marsia MarinerGuestI DID NOT SAY and I did not mean that "it's a bitrate problem". I said and I meant that encoding a 5.1 stream to DCA at 384kbps will probably suck very much.Originally Posted by Malkovich
But, since you are a functional illiterate, be welcome to my IgnoreList. -
Ha..Ha..Ha..Yes, but I did not ask you this, I did not open the thread with the problem that the audio stream encoding in DTS was low quality or it was disgusting, asking for a solution, in fact I told you that it was not the problem, if you reread my first post another 10 times maybe you'll understand the problem.Originally Posted by Marsia Mariner
I DID NOT SAY and I did not mean that "it's a bitrate problem". I said and I meant that encoding a 5.1 stream to DCA at 384kbps will probably suck very much.Originally Posted by Malkovich
But, since you are a functional illiterate, be welcome to my IgnoreList.
Welcome to My UsersListNotConsidered.
I think the problem is the internal codec (dca) in ffmpeg, I hope will solve in the future, for the moment if no one else has given a valid answer to the problem, I think it is useless to clog the thread with useless answers. Thanks -
Then copy already existing track - don't transcode it.Originally Posted by Malkovich
Conversion is not copy, desired by you bitrate is not supported by DTS (and in fact DTS with half bitrate i.e. 768kbps is significantly worse than AC3 with 640kbps and you demanded 1/4 full DTS bitrate - by principle DTS is more close to lossless FLAC than AC-3 (however DTS is kind of lossy FLAC) - go for 384 or better 448kbps AC-3 if your goal is quality and reduced bitrate and compatibility, if compatibility is not your goal then go for AAC with 384kbps - avoid DTS if you not wish spent for audio at least 1411.2kbps - simply with lower bitrates DTS is unable to provide high quality (don't ask why so many people insist to use lower bitrates with DTS and their claim superior to AC-3 quality - this is completely wrong).Originally Posted by Malkovich
Getting this error : [dca @ 00000000011665e0] Specified channel layout '5.1' is not supportedCode:... -map 0:v -map i:0x89 -strict -2 -c:a dca -ac 6 -b:a 384k -ar 48000 -hide_banner "Pulp_Fiction.mp4"
Ok then I edit in this way, and insert "Copy" so that it goes to copy the audio codec of the selected track always with 6 channels (5.1)
Ok then at this point I wonder, he copied, what he copied ???, he copied the DTS codec, is for what reason if I manually set the audio codec (dca) the conversion goes me error, I am convinced that it is an internal error of the codec (dca) in FFmpeg.Code:... -map 0:v -map i:0x89 -strict -2 -c:a copy -ac 6 -b:a 384k -ar 48000 -hide_banner "Pulp_Fiction.mp4"
Your command line should be like this:
(unclear to me why you use such mapping '-map i:0x89')Code:ffmpeg -hide_banner -i .... -map 0:v -map i:0x89 -c:a copy -movflags faststart -f mp4 "Pulp_Fiction.mp4"
or for AC-3 like this:
(448k is maximum valid for dvd, you can try 512k or 640k i.e. maximum allowed by AC-3)Code:ffmpeg -hide_banner -i .... -map 0:v -map i:0x89 -c:a ac3 -b:a 448k -movflags faststart -f mp4 "Pulp_Fiction.mp4"
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Marsia MarinerGuestYes, if I am not mistaken Patrakov himself told me (via GMail) that libdcaenc will refuse to encode if the bitrate value is considered *too low*.Originally Posted by pandy
According to Selur at Doom9's forum, 670 kbps is the minimum bitrate accepted by libdcaenc for compressing 5.1 audio at 48 kHz.Last edited by Marsia Mariner; 7th Dec 2017 at 06:20.
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On DVD Video, the purpose of dts was mainly to provide a multi-channel audio stream with roughly the same bitrates as stereo or mono 16-bit LPCM and only little quality loss, especially with an almost full frequency spectrum (so I was told by books when I worked in a DVD Authoring studio, unfortunately I forgot which...). The bitrates on DVD Video (at 48.0 kHz) are 754.5 (just below 768 like mono LPCM) oder 1509.75 (just below 1536 like stereo LPCM) kbps. While the distortions are nearly transparent for the HQ bitrate, they are clearly noticable for the LQ bitrate.
Dolby Digital AC-3 with typically 384 or 448 kbps for discrete multi-channel audio on DVD Video (or up to the core specs including 640 kbps) has a lower bitrate than dts. But that does not imply a lower quality. Besides a Fourier-like transformation of discrete samples into spectral bands per audio frame, which already helps compressibility, the psycho-acoustic filtering of the spectrum and a good channel coupling (like Mid/Side coding of stereo, just for more channels) increase the efficiency even more. If dts has an advantage over AC-3, then it is mainly in preserving frequencies which are probably hardly noticable.
But the real advantage of Dolby Digital AC-3 over dts is in the dynamic range: while dts is as limited as 16-bit integer LPCM (in fact, it has even less significant bits), AC-3 can be superior if the encoder had a high resolution master (24-bit integer or even floating-point audio samples) as source, and the impact is more obvious for rather quiet scenes (16-bit integer samples have a resolution of 16 bits only for full volume, whereas floating-point samples may always have the precision up to that of their mantissa, limited only by the precision of the microphones).
tl;dr: Despite lower bitrates, AC-3 can have better subjective quality than dts (core specs, compatible to DVD Video or only a little beyond). -
Yep - depends on sample rate DTS can have two bitrates - in this discussion we can call them HQ and LQ - HQ bitrate is very close to PCM bitrate (simple math 2 channels, 44100Hz sample rate, 16 bit linear PCM = 2x16x44100 = 1411.2kbps or for 48000hz sample rate it will be 1536kbps) and LQ mode which is half of bitrate for HQ mode.
DTS support also possibility to use 14 from 16 bits in encoded stream to reduce hypothetical risk of destroying tweeters (so efficiently 87.5% of bits is used to carry data).
HQ DTS can be superior to AC-3 (MDCT codec based pre-echo).
Excerpt from: https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3324.pdf
So outcome is very simple - if you can (there is bitrate for this) copy original HQ DTS track (ie 1510kbps) - if bitrate must be reduced re-encode DTS to AC-3 with at least 448kbps to keep comparable high quality, avoid garbage 768kbps DTS as it is low quality audio.The general conclusion of the EBU evaluations is that the quality performance cannot be achieved
if the bitrates used are not sufficient. This conclusion applies to both old and new codecs. If the
quality performance requirement for broadcasters is that none of the test sequences resulted in a
quality lower than “Excellent” (i.e. 80 points on MUSHRA scale), then relatively high bitrates are
required. For example, consider Dolby Digital (DD) or DTS which have been in the market for more
than 10 years: Dolby Digital requires 448 kbit/s and DTS still requires around 1.5 Mbit/s for
"Excellent" quality. The newer codecs, such as Dolby Digital Plus or Windows Media provide
"Excellent" quality only if operating at 448 kbit/s or above.
It is interesting to note that that broadcasters who were using Dolby Digital at a bitrate of
448 kbit/s several years ago made the right decision, although it was not made on scientific basis
but was based merely on practical "trial-and-cut" experience. Today, Dolby Digital still represents a
good compromise between bit rate and quality. Broadcasters who use DD at 448 kbit/s for 5.1
multi-channel audio are able to offer excellent multi-channel audio quality. This conclusion is
equally true for standard TV, HDTV and radio broadcasts.
forgot to add"
DTS is 24 bit codec (and as such can deliver up to 144dB dynamic - more than necessary in practical applications).Originally Posted by LigH.de
Those less significant bits is special case where DTS compressed stream use only 14 bits from 16 - this special mode will not affect audio dynamic, it can be used to prevent tweeters damage when DTS track is played accidentally as PCM.Last edited by pandy; 7th Dec 2017 at 16:08.
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wrong thread but perhaps will be usefull for somebody:
Tested, works OK (Windows), conversion to max bitdepth and max channel layout (from DTS and ffmpeg dca perspective):
Code:@set filename=%1 @ffmpeg.exe -report -hide_banner -v 32 -stats -y -i "%filename%" -vn -af aresample=resampler=soxr:osr=48000:cutoff=0.990:dither_method=none,aformat=sample_fmts=s32:channel_layouts=0x60f -strict -2 -c:a dca -b:a 1536k -f wav "%~n1_dts.wav"
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Sorry to dig up an old thread, but 448kbps AC3 is absolutely not better than 1536kbps DTS Core audio.
All frequencies above around 14-15kHz in AC3 at the 448kbps bitrate go what Dolby term 'unidirectional' (aka 'mono') and all sense of location in a space gets lost completely.
If the DVD devs would have allowed the bitrate of 640kbps you could have a worthwhile discussion on data reduction & quality & file sizes, but ac3 is cheating with it's unidirectional top end' on DVD. DTS, being full bandwidth 20Hz to 20kHz would needs must take up more space. -
Based on subjective results 512kbps AC-3 is considered transparent and comparable to DTS 1536kbps - this doesn't exclude possibility of the situations where DTS will be better than AC-3 however at a cost of the three times (3x) higher bitrate.Originally Posted by neilwilkes
This is fair comparison and it is up to you to decide what is more important, audio or video quality. -
And yet 512 is still outside the DVD-Video specifications.Originally Posted by pandy
Based on subjective results 512kbps AC-3 is considered transparent and comparable to DTS 1536kbps - this doesn't exclude possibility of the situations where DTS will be better than AC-3 however at a cost of the three times (3x) higher bitrate.Originally Posted by neilwilkes
This is fair comparison and it is up to you to decide what is more important, audio or video quality.
If we are talking about a music title, then I would consider the audio to be the primary stream, and if for a film I would still consider it to be 50% of the production.
The devil is in the detail of course, and for film soundtrack you can get away with many more things than are possible for a music title.
But what you say is well noted, and appreciated -
Only for the record:
Conversion to DTS 5.1 can be done by clever FFmpeg-GUI. -
That conclusion surely was very-accurate when the only available DCA encoders were the official DTS hardware and the licensed Surcode for DVD-Video.Originally Posted by pandy
However one day there appeared the DTS-HD Master Audio Suite, the freeware dcaenc, and no new /better public comparison tests were run
Surcode sucks because it supports only three bitrates — 754.5, 1509.75 at 48 kHz and 1234.8 kbps at 44.1 kHz, and it supports only one channel layout (5.1).
Whereas the Master Audio Suite supports various bitrates for various channel layouts at 48 kHz, 96 kHz and even 192 kHz,
and dcaenc offers many more bitrate values for all the sampling rates defined in the official DCA specification.
IMNHSO, 1536 kbps has always been overkill for 5.1 DTS, because 1344 kbps at 48 kHz is ""numerically-equivalent"" (so to speak) to the 1234.8 kbps value used for multichannel DTS Audio-CDs
As for 2.0 (plain stereo), 510 kbps at 48 kHz should be more than sufficient, and if the content is not music, but only dialogues and effects, then the bitrate could go as low as 318 kbps."Programmers are human-shaped machines that transform alcohol into bugs." -
Once again - AC-3 official for DVD Video is 448kbps however all Dolby decoders must decode 512kbps and 640kbps - this is part of the Dolby conformance testing so 448kbps may be seen as soft requirement not hard requirement - authoring software of course can be more or less picky on this.
Dolby and DTS are by principle different codecs and Dolby offer higher compression than DTS to deliver similar subjective quality. There can be of course areas where DTS outperform AC-3 but at a cost of the reduced video quality (MPEG-2 can be primary limiting factor where available storage capacity and bitrate must be shared between various data types).
All this discussion seem to be quite odd... but still it is unclear to me why some people prefer 768kbps DTS over 640 or 512kbps AC-3.
Btw AC-3 can be also VBR and free (unrestricted i.e. higher than 640kbps).
Personally i would avoid Dolby and DTS products whenever it is possible.
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