How to find out correct resolution in Megui?

[hello_hello]

Personally I prefer to crop first and control the output aspect ratio, even if there's an aspect ratio so small it's not detectable, but if you're Al and can only accept one way of doing things, that's how you do it his way using MeGUI.

I do not dismiss whatever you or Megui or other do, I suggested other option and you torpedo it like it is Russian invasion.

No, your initial post claimed that not doing it your way was backwards and your method was the common sense one. If that's not dismissing whatever I or MeGUI do, I don't know what would be.

With proper DVD, BD or UHD sources it is more that ok to do. I do not talk about some other stuff that you like to bring up, video that was in some way more or less manually messed up before.

I've not once mentioned video that was in some way manually messed up in this thread, although your idea of "messed up" seems to be anything for which your method doesn't work.
What I've continuously pointed out, is that if you want to crop and resize a bunch of related videos to the same resolution, the only practical way is to calculate the resizing after cropping to determine the aspect error and adjust it until there is none.
The same applies to a single source where the cropping needs to change in places. Sometimes where there's large black bars it involves cropping away a bit of picture too, but it's generally picture in an area where it'd be hidden by over-scanning on a traditional TV.

Here's screenshots from an episode of a PAL DVD. First from the source and then after cropping and resizing to the same square pixel dimensions with zero or virtually no aspect error (the maximum was 0.06%).
I've seen far worse than this, but you'd want to be doing it "backwards", as you describe it. You mightn't care if your encodes look nice and neat, but many people do.
Funnily enough, I roughly know what the numbers should be, and I couldn't work out why they were a little different and the aspect was slightly off. Then I realised I was using the template I created with the resizing before the cropping.

[deeyeej]

[Attachment 43755 - Click to enlarge]Hi you can use this nice program called unkrop mkv.

[hello_hello]

uncropMKV seems to be one to be wary of.

According to the comments here it installs the AutoComplete adware program, which is confirmed in the description on the VideoHelp uncropMKV page.

Having said that, it appears not to need installing. I unzipped uncropMKV_1.55.exe with 7zip, found the installer for AutoComplete and erased it, moved all the files in the $_OUTDIR/Tools folder into the same directory as uncropMKV.exe and uncrop.exe seemed to run okay.

As best as I could tell anyway. I gave up because it relentlessly complained about not being able to find a procedure entry point for OpenCL.dll (I think), but that's probably not uncropMKV's fault. Other programs have complained about the same thing. My PC is way overdue for a reformat and fresh install of Windows.

[deeyeej]

Hi hello_hello!

Maybe you have right.
But works fine for me.

[hello_hello]

What works?

[deeyeej]

uncrop mkv

[LigH.de]

The application itself may work as desired.

But your computer now possibly contains spyware. Congratulations. Is that a price you enjoy to pay?

[_Al_]

if you change the cropping/resizing order, MeGUI's aspect error calculations will be wrong unless you calculate a new Input DAR yourself and change it. Or you could manually add the cropping to the script rather than use the GUI, or you could even cut and paste the cropping MeGUI adds in order to move it below the resizing, and yes and you can preview the result, but how would MeGUI factor that into it's aspect ratio calculations?

What are you talking about? Avs script is:
<input>
<resize>
<crop>
So no input DAR is needed to do any calculations, whatever Megui inputDAR is, whatever aspect ratio error it says, that error is nonsense in this case, megui perhaps uses that original order. Then user crops himself with that preview feature, so it is just enough. That was my point.

Or he can use autocrop, but Megui that I have here did not respond in any way by pressing autocrop, I might have very old version, not sure. What autocrop Megui uses? If autocrop.dll it would not work like manually above because it cuts into live picture depending on mode. But hey, still no aspect ratio error and with mode 2 there is maximum 1 line cut.

your idea of "messed up" seems to be anything for which your method doesn't work.

nice try
It works with BD, VHS, DVD, UHD that was my point. This is my point. If video was in any way treated already, resized to your negligible error as you say, downloads from web basically it is already "messed up", it was messed up with. You still operate to include movie AR and fixing it, but you forget that live image might be already cut because of the mode. When you gave me those samples a while ago, you were cutting image like you had a chain saw to do it.

So it is salvageable if you do not cut live image in the first place, but these things do not bother you. No one seams to be bothered. Most do it and nobody sees anything. It looks like if someone tries to do it exact, he is ridiculed. Thanks to you. Good job. And frankly, how many times there is help needed because someone gone wild cropping and resizing and it is a real mess ready to be restored, it happens all the time. I understand it makes you happy because you can shine explaining it. Not me, it looks like a quite a repetitive problem. That would not happened if person was told to keep simple rules you are trying to ridicule, for no reason whatsoever.

[hello_hello]

iif you change the cropping/resizing order, MeGUI's aspect error calculations will be wrong unless you calculate a new Input DAR yourself and change it. Or you could manually add the cropping to the script rather than use the GUI, or you could even cut and paste the cropping MeGUI adds in order to move it below the resizing, and yes and you can preview the result, but how would MeGUI factor that into it's aspect ratio calculations?

What are you talking about? Avs script is:
<input>
<resize>
<crop>
So no input DAR is needed to do any calculations, whatever Megui inputDAR is, whatever aspect ratio error it says, that error is nonsense in this case, megui perhaps uses that original order. Then user crops himself with that preview feature, so it is just enough. That was my point.

Of course an input DAR is needed unless you're a Pixel aspect ratio expert. MeGUI lets you choose between a generic or ITU PAR, and choose between between 4:3 and 16:9. I use the MPEG4 DARs saved as custom aspect ratios, and the resizing changes accordingly..And again... how is the average person supposed to know to ignore the aspect error? And by creating an aspect error you then ignore, you defeat the purpose of displaying one in the first place.
Mind you, you keep referring to resizing to 16:9 or 4:3 as though it's the Holy Grail, but were you planning to explain the need for Generic/ITU or MPEG4 PARs or is a 2.5% aspect error no big deal to you?

I honestly don't know why you have so many cropping and resizing bees buzzing inside your bonnet, but as I've said 1000 times, if you can resize a 16:9 source to 16:9 dimensions and not introduce an aspect error, you can crop a source to 2.40 and resize it to 2.40 without any aspect error too. Or so little error you can't detect it. It's exactly the same, only you calculate the resizing based on the resolution after cropping. I don't know why you have such a hard time with the concept.

your idea of "messed up" seems to be anything for which your method doesn't work.
nice try
It works with BD, VHS, DVD, UHD that was my point. This is my point. If video was in any way treated already, resized to your negligible error as you say, downloads from web basically it is already "messed up", it was messed up with. You still operate to include movie AR and fixing it, but you forget that live image might be already cut because of the mode. When you gave me those samples a while ago, you were cutting image like you had a chain saw to do it.

Your last point managed to achieve a wrongness level of 100%. It was actually pure wrong, free of not-wrong imperfections.
I tried explaining the problem a few times but you ignored it each time or you simply don't have the ability to understand. I'll try one more time....
It doesn't mean video is "messed up" because it isn't exactly 16:9 or 4:3.
I've cropped and resized back to 720x576 and used anamorphic encoding on occasion. If you don't resize, the pixel aspect ratio remains the same, but if you do MeGUI calculates the new pixel aspect ratio and sends it to the encoder, based on the output resolution. No aspect error in sight as the PAR can be very accurate. Every GUI does exactly the same thing. There's no reason to suspect the new PAR would be incorrect, unless StaxRip or VidCoder etc are bad at maths.
So if I was to re-encode such a source, why would I use the original PAR and not the new one? The old one would be incorrect. It doesn't mean it's messed up, even if anything outside industry standards hurts your brain, but unfortunately when you open a source like that MeGUI still uses a generic or ITU PAR, so you have to correct it manually.
Did you noticed the movie aspect ratio wasn't mentioned in that explanation? It has nothing to do with it.

Currently you can tell MeGUI you want an anamorphic output to be Mod "x" and it'll fiddle with the cropping if you tell it to, or resize instead, but all that breaks once the cropping/resizing order isn't what MeGUI expects it to be, and you'd be limited to disabling resizing or resizing to square pixels, or you'd have to open a resize calculator and calculate what MeGUI would have calculated for you and apply the correct PAR manually. I don't do it much these days, but what's your cropping/resizing method for an anamorphic output? I guess the ability to resize anamorphic sources to anything but square pixels would have to be removed. And thinking about it, the Mod "X" resizing option becomes completely redundant, even when resizing to square pixels. There's not much point forcing MeGUI to resize to mod16 if you crop non-mod16 later.

So it is salvageable if you do not cut live image in the first place, but these things do not bother you. No one seams to be bothered. Most do it and nobody sees anything. It looks like if someone tries to do it exact, he is ridiculed. Thanks to you. Good job. And frankly, how many times there is help needed because someone gone wild cropping and resizing and it is a real mess ready to be restored, it happens all the time. I understand it makes you happy because you can shine explaining it. Not me, it looks like a quite a repetitive problem. That would not happened if person was told to keep simple rules you are trying to ridicule, for no reason whatsoever.

How do you maintain such a high level of hypocrisy while putting so much effort into playing the victim?
Remember when I said I was creating a script to do sub-pixel cropping so it could resize exactly, with zero aspect error every time, and do you remember ridiculing that?? Didn't you mention plank constants and sound childish as a result? And now I'm ridiculing you for doing it "exactly". Funny stuff.

I don't know how many times I'll have to say it before you'll accept reality, but you can't crop and resize to a particular resolution if you resize first. That's why it's done the other way around, and while on very rare occasions someone may ask for help with resizing, if every GUI suddenly swapped the order, I'm confident there'd be lots of complaints about not being able to calculate cropping/resizing properly.

I've never had a problem with aspect error. I used AutoGK for years and it was always as accurate as possible within a mod2 cropping limitation, and I'm OCD about keeping the aspect error under 0.1% with MeGUI.
I suspect your claim people are always asking for help with resizing is based more in fantasy than reality. 99% of the cropping/resizing questions would be due to the source being anamorphic anyway, and that isn't going to change no matter what order you do it in.

Anyway, as usual this discussion probably won't achieve anything, but I was certain you'd left the thread earlier? I'm sure I heard at least two announcements informing the world Elvis had left the building.

[_Al_]

you know DVD's, BD's UHD and VHS, DV avi aspect ratio,

I told you I do not talk about messed up internet or as a matter of fact your encoded videos. You know that , so again, one page of BS.

[hello_hello]

Did your mother drop you on your head when you were a baby, then drop a piano on your head before throwing you off a tall building, because it's hard to imagine another reason for someone being so thick.

Firstly, bite me, because you don't get to tell me what to post. You bought up the subject of "messed up internet", not me, but once again you either didn't bother reading my reply, or you've stuck your fingers in your ears again and pretended not to read it, or after your mother dropped you off a tall building someone must have parked a large truck on your head. Nothing is messed up. The display aspect ratio was adjusted correctly, as after cropping and resizing the video would no longer be 16:9.

I know about DVD's, BD's UHD and VHS, DV avi. Have you bothered explaining it to the OP yet, because I've only ever heard you singing the 16:9 resizing anthem while worshipping at the 16:9 resizing alter.

The problem I mentioned that'd arise regarding calculating the correct anamorphic output, or the increased degree of difficulty outputting a particular mod, will you be ignoring those today, or have you already convinced yourself my entire post was about "messed up internet".

I can't talk about my encoded video in a video encoding forum while discussing the process of encoded video? Wow. Nest time I'll talk about fly-fishing or the likelihood of extra terrestrial life. You've well inside mental territory now.

[_Al_]

Incredible another article of BS.

EDIT: deal with deinterlace first of course before resizing if source is interlaced, having SD sources, use QTGMC, otherwise no resize, not worthy.

VHS captured in 720x480?
crop(0,8,0,-8)
<resize to 4:3>
<crop> and <addborders back> if you want

VHS in 704x480?
<resize to 4:3>
<crop> and <addborders back> if you want

DVD? Same principal, you see 8 pixels left and right?
<deal with telecine if that is a case to fix frame rate to 24p>
crop(0,8,0,-8)
<resize to 4:3 or 16:9>
<crop if you want, try not into live image>


DVD?
<deal with telecine if that is a case to fix frame rate to 24p>
<resize to 4:3 or 16:9>
<crop if you want, try not into live image>

DVavi?
<resize to 4:3 or 16:9>
<possibly crop if it is 16:9 messed up letterboxed DVavi in 4:3 >

BD?
<resize to 16:9>
<crop, possibly not into live image then>

UHD?
<resize to 16:9>
<crop, possibly not into live image then>



what advice are you talking about, I shout it out there for a week, it is not my problem that you are deaf, there is even Megui workflow for OP. Sure it is buried in that BS we made. Post #28

[redwudz]

To all posters, discontinue the personal attacks or this thread will be closed. Fair warning.

Moderator redwudz

[hello_hello]

Incredible another article of BS.

what advice are you talking about, I shout it out there for a week, it is not my problem that you are deaf, there is even Megui workflow for OP. Sure it is buried in that BS we made. Post #28

Well maybe if you read what I wrote you wouldn't have to make yourself look foolish asking me what I'm talking about.

Can't you resize to 1.363634 or 1.1818181 instead of 4:3 or 16:9 and-choose not to to crop? And I have to ask, because by your own admission you've been shouting your method to the world for a week, yet some of your examples contradict it by cropping first. I'll admit I laughed out loud.

The church of resizing must have rules? I assumed there'd b a rule such as "thou shalt not crop first" or "calculate not thy neighbour's cropping lest your cropping also be calculated" yet apparently somewhere there's an exception if you crop 16 pixels.

Anyway... do a google search for "anamorphic encoding" so you understand what it is, then read my last post (again), because the only difference is when resizing to square pixels it's the new dimensions that need to be calculated, but for anamorphic encoding a new pixel aspect ratio must be calculated instead (if you resize), and it's still calculated under the assumption cropping comes first.

[redwudz]

Thread closed.

Moderator redwudz