Can a 480p capture device capture 640x480 well? Seeking a suitable device

[Neil-Betamax]

I hope someone could help.
I'm trying to find a suitable game capture device to capture HDMI from my laptop PC & can't find one which captures in 640x480.

I wish to capture visuals from Atari demos & games using an emulator, & the output resolution is 640x480, to later be editted for music videos in final edit.

I've looked at all kinds of devices, but many which support 60FPS capture in 480p which is 720 x 480. I would imagine this wouldn't work out accurate enough if my output resolution is 640x480, but I can't seem to find a device which captures in 640x480 & wondered if there is a reason why.

If anyone could help shed some light onto this it'd be so helpful. A year of on/off research trying to screen capture has lead me towards thinking it'd be best to have a stand alone device which can handle 60FPS, but devices like the Elgato HD60 don't support this resolution, only 720 x 480.
Many thanks.

[jagabo]

I've looked at all kinds of devices, but many which support 60FPS capture in 480p which is 720 x 480. I would imagine this wouldn't work out accurate enough if my output resolution is 640x480, but I can't seem to find a device which captures in 640x480 & wondered if there is a reason why.

Because that's the ITU standard for capturing standard definition analog NTSC video. It's used on DVD, for example. If you can't find a device that captures at 640x480 you can always scale it later.

[Neil-Betamax]

Thanks Jagabo.
Your so helpful, it's very appreciated. I read through a thread from 2014 which you was kindly helping someone with, https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/364718-NTSC-720-vs-640-Square-Pixels.
It cleared up a lot & it's great to know this info. I can be almost certain that final cut would have an option to export my 720x480 files to 640x480, so I think I'm onto a winner now.
Having read through the thread above I understand more, I guess it could be said that scaling 720x480 to 640x480 would work well with minimal artifacts, hopefully un-noticable & just a slight change of screen size. An Elgato HD60 looks like a great option now.
Once again, thanks for the support!

[jagabo]

What kind of emulator are you running? A computer based emulator can simply do screen capture. Many even have the feature built in. That will give you the best quality.

[Neil-Betamax]

I'm running Steem, Atari ST Emulator.
It's taken longer than expected trying to find the best solution for screen capture though & I figured that rather than loosing days trying new methods I'd be better off buying a stand alone capture device in order to move on.
As steem doesn't have a built in screen capture option I used camstudio to capture.

I was able to capture in AVI (converted in camstudio from swf) at around 24FPS, but the Atari ST Demoscene visuals & more exciting footage runs at 60FPS. I had to finish this video to get my idea down as I was loosing time to create the work just trying to find a solution, so stuck with 24fps to complete this video idea. It's been applauded by many members of the demoscene but criticised by myself & others due to the frame rate: (if interested, the video is here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diLdvQAA804&t=26s, would be so much better in 60fps).

I've been trying many screen capture programs including fraps, virtualdub & OBS, but all have landed me with various problems. So days, weeks & months go by as I try various methods.

I could use Hatari on my Mac as it's a good machine & has this feature, but most demos & games don't work on Hatari. Steem only runs on windows.
I've tried virtualdub, OBS & fraps on win7 & XP with no luck, but theres a fast laptop I have with vista which I'm currently back & forth trying, although each time I come back to it I loose a full day testing various settings & different software whilst I need to be creating the piece, which is partially why I'm considering a stand alone device as I'm loosing the time to complete what I intend to use it for.

Eg, I captured some great footage at 60fps in virtualdub at 640x480, but the file size was around 1GB for 20 seconds & when I came to edit them in final cut pro on my mac, the AVI files was unrecognisable by the program whereas the AVI files I made in camstudio on my XP laptop came out fine. I could edit them in final cut but perhaps due to the spec of that XP laptop there we're lags & could only work in 24fps max without unviewable lagging. I'm next to try camstudio in vista to see if the lag & fps rate could be improved as its a fast machine, I think last week I'd lost time working on it whilst installing camstudio, I can't remember exactly why but I feel I'm likely to loose more full days trying to get screen capture adjusted appropriately with the hardware & software I have.

I almost got an Elgato HD60 today, but it's not supported on my mac OS as mines 10.7.5 & it only works on 10.12+, & I can't update my OS. There is still hope yet with my vista machine using screen capture, its just taken so long I've decided to try something ready to go. A shame because I'm sure it'd be better quality if I screen captured, & less costly, I'm just in a bit of a pickle & need to press on so, hoping a device may be the best way forward.

[jagabo]

Eg, I captured some great footage at 60fps in virtualdub at 640x480, but the file size was around 1GB for 20 seconds

That equates to uncompressed RGB. Try using a compression codec. HuffYUV is fast and available on most platforms. Or try an MJPEG encoder, also fast and widely supported.

[Neil-Betamax]

Thanks Jagabo,
Just opened up my vista laptop to give it a whirl...

[Cauptain]

Do you try Movavi Screen Capture?

Its record at 60fps on MAC similar windows version.

Link: https://www.movavi.com/pt/mac-screen-capture/



Claudio

[jagabo]

By the way, lossless compression like huffyuv won't get you a huge amount of compression. But the output after decompression will be exactly the same as the input before compression (assuming no color format conversion). MJPEG is a lossy codec. It allows you to select how much detail you are willing to lose. The more detail you are willing to lose the more compression you get.

[Neil-Betamax]

Cheers, just trying to install huffyuv. I'm on 32bit vista, just couldn't find a guide to install it, only how to install the 64bit version.
I tried typing in a command prompt & couldn't access C:/ to install (dont hav backslash on this mac machine) as it wouldn't let me, maybe I need to read the guide on how to access C:/ in vista, XP tends to allow me to do it.
Now I need to know how to stop virtual dub defaulting to the webcam filter before I have chance to opt for screen capture, as it opens up 'cyberlink webcam' which makes it crash when I try to select screen capture. Hopefully after today if I get huffyuv working I can give that a go, just kinda on the verge of giving up & getting a capture device again. Virtualdub is in a folder on my desktop though, I assume its no different than placing the folder in the C:/ route folder? Huffyuv files are there.
I had a look at movavi.com, I might test it in demo mode as its $45 to buy. I'll come back to all of this later today, starting to loose faith again as I've opened up more issues to get around. If theres a way to reset the default settings in virtualdub I can start testing other codecs, just managed to have it set to open the Capture AVI section with webcam, which opens up a seperate program & makes it crash. This is the kind of luck I've been having over the last year tho!

[Bernix]

Hi,
i googled backslash on mac for you option + shift + :
Or if you have different language keyboard on macbook
Or Apple Macintosh shortcuts

EDIT: I cant see why OBS studio doesnt work for you. There is only one problem, but you have to try and this is source there are several thing, you can choose from. But you have test all of them, because f.e. game capture doesnt work for all games, desktop also doesnt cover everything, so you have to find right source. For example painting in Krita if I remember correctly I have to capture as a Game capture (source). I hope you find this really easy and almighty

Bernix

[Neil-Betamax]

Hey thanks Bernix
It was just for the purpose of explaining what I typed on my vista laptop, but thats handy to have cheers.
I'm going to try virtualdub on my win7 machine now, but I'm still at risk of loosing another full day trying to get somewhere. I'm sure its possible, just having a huge headache with minor issues along the way. I'm sure I'll get there, just might loose the chance to make the video all together, loosing hope!

[Bernix]

Hi Neil,
Check this http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27595
it is about capture to picture, so 10sec = 400 MB but it works on Hatari (mac os available (I believe))

Bernix

[jagabo]

Cheers, just trying to install huffyuv. I'm on 32bit vista, just couldn't find a guide to install it,

Right click on the INF file and select Install.

[Neil-Betamax]

Thanks for that Bernix, although I'm unable to use Hatari as it isn't compatible with the Atari ST Demos I wish to record. There are a lot of bugs within it, Steem is the only way for me but it only runs on windows.
I just right clicked the inf file, & it worked! Cheers. I had read the readme file to do that, but couldn't see the option to install when I right clicked. Sorted that now and can see huffyuv appear in video compression.
I've just got to get around an error I'm experiencing as when I go to CAPTURE AVI mode, it defaults to webcam capture & opens up 'cyberlink youcam', a program my Dad uses on this machine. Whilst the webcamera filter is selected under 'device', I can't change it to option 3 screen capture, as virtualdub crashes when I try to move from web camera filter setting.
I"m trying to find a way I can open virtualdub and have it default to screen capture device, to prevent it crashing.
I get 'VirtualDub Program Failure - An out-of-bounds memory access (access violation_ occurred in module 'virtualdub'…reading address 00000000.'
Once I can establish why this is & get round it, I can then try the huffyuv compression

[jagabo]

There is a registry entry in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\VirtualDub.org\VirtualDub\Capture called "Startup Driver". Set it to "Screen capture", without the quotes.

[Neil-Betamax]

I'm sorry, theres something I'm missing. I don't know where to look. I've typed the above, in windows explorer (replacing C:/Windows in the registry field (if I got that right) with HKEY_CURRENT_, or C:/HKEY..etc)? I think theres just too much for me to understand, although I've always been computer savvy but only on the surface.
Is this a text file I'd be editting? sorry

[Neil-Betamax]

hold on, I got it!
I went into control panel & disabled the webcam. Now I'm able to select screen capture without having webcam filter running.
So I can move on! Phew

[Neil-Betamax]

Huffyuv is installed. It didn't confirm with a message or anything, just allowed me to click install but I think thats right as it appears in virtualdub since I did this.
I select it under 'select video compression', huffyuv v2.1.1, click ok. I go to capture>capture video, but I get the message 'Video Compressor error: The source image format is not acceptable. (error code -2).
I'm trying other compressors within the list, its taking a while though because they are making virtualdub crash when I try to stop the capture.
If a capture device isn't too significant a drop in quality, I'm going to try researching them again, I'm loosing so much in the process of getting this together, but really do hope I can master virtualdub for this.

[jagabo]

Use RegEdit to change the Registry.

What color format are you capturing? RGB32, RGB24, YUY2, UYVY, etc. Go to Video -> Set Custom Video Format. Try 24-bit RGB or YUY2.

Go to Video -> Compression... highlight huffyuv, press the Configure button. Under "YUY2 compression method" select "Predict Median (best)", under "RGB compression method" Try either "Convert to YUY2" or "Predict Gradient (best)".

[Neil-Betamax]

I tried 24-bit RGB & the others you mentioned earlier today, but it said my video card didn't support them. its ok in 32-bit ARGB, im running 32-bit windows vista.
I had a look at those variables under gonfigure, just tried YUY2 compression as Predict Median (best) & then Predict Gradient (best) set, but it gives me the error 'the source image format is not acceptable'. I tried Convert to YUY2 too & had the same error message.

[Bernix]

It means bit depth not system 32 or 64. And on virtualdub homepage is suggested to capture to " always choose YUY2, UYVY, or YVYU over RGB24"
Try F5 compatibility capture. If something is still wrong, there is serious problem.
Bernix

[Neil-Betamax]

Cheers.
Under compression I have huffyuv v2.1.1 selected. Configured to 'Predict median (best)' & 'Predict Gradient (Best)' settings.
Then I set custom format to 640 x 480, but only 32-bit ARGB will respond. Any other option I choose including YUY2, UYVY & YVYU give me the message 'the capture device does not support the selected format'.

I'll try F5 compatability capture next. I did capture a video earlier pressing f5 as a short cut, not sure if theres anything else I need to do as my settings we're as above whilst I"d pressed it. I've looked up a guide on settings for F5 compatability capture : https://www.packtpub.com/mapt/book/hardware_and_creative/9781904811350/3/ch03lvl1sec05...pture-settings
So I'll have a look at this. Just got to have a walk around the block. Its so stressful. Thanks for all yr help

[jagabo]

The problem you're having is that you can only capture RGB32 and huffyuv only supports RGB24 and YUY2. Try Video -> Filter Chain Enable (make sure it's enabled), then Video -> Filter List... Add the Color Format filter and set it to 4:2:2 interleaved YCBcr (YUY2).

[Neil-Betamax]

I don't seem to have the option available to choose compatability mode. The guide I found there isn't for internal video capture, so I don't have the same options available when I follow the guide. But after spending from 10:30am on this, I think I'm close to giving up all together.
If I find out how to run compatibility mode F5 I can test for any further issues. Fraps worked ok, but was laggy, & I'd need to buy the full version for £27 if I want to use it. It'd be a shame to buy fraps & realise £27 had been wasted in the long run, I think I need to buy a capture device. Even if I loose slight quality, I'm loosing days & sanity over it. I think I just need a break after todays attempts. Appreciate all yr help though. If I manage to run compatability mode I'll let u know if it works

[Neil-Betamax]

I've enabled Chain enable. I added the convert format filter and set it to 4:2:2 interleaved YCBcr (YUY2).

The video turned out very laggy. I'll try it again with no audio (it dipped in pitch which actually sounded cool, but the visuals slowed too).
so this method is able to use huffyuv in this way, but theres an issue perhaps with compression still, as the file is 245MB & 40seconds long.

[jagabo]

Sorry to see your having so many problems with VirtualDub. I've only really used it for video capture in the past, not really for screen capture. When I did try it for screen capture I had problems with frame rates too. You might have better luck with OBS Studio. It's a little hard to figure out but there are lots of guides. I've been able to capture small windows at 60 fps with it with no dropped or duplicate frames and no audio sync problems.

[Neil-Betamax]

Thanks Jagabo.
I'm gonna keep trying & I'm sure somewhere along the line I'll find a good screen capture solution. Using the windows PCs I have available, I tried OBS a while back on win7. I had hardware issues with that PC though which took some fair fault finding to establish, I don't think its capable but it's a machine I come back to now & then. The virtualdub uncompressed files turned out great on that one, but I need to work the settings to export them to an compressed format I can read in final cut, I've heard handbrake is a possibility which I have, so I'll give that a shot.
I"m certain theres a way, I have x4 PCs (one awesome tower PC but, unable to process graphics due to a hardware failure), one of which is vista & I never knew untill recently that vista can run steem emulator. So I'm due to try what I've done already on the other with it.
I've also been chatting with my pal Dav, as I'm due to capture some video of circuit bent AV based toys. So if it does become too much I've heard the Black Magic intensity works well for both SD & HD. If I can record my old betamax footage, AV toys & also use it for this I think I'd be onto a winner.
It looks like a really cool piece of kit, worth the investment I think. My mate Dav and yourself have been so awesome in helping me through, I feel I owe you both a beer at least, especially yourself Jagabo, your a true gent for sharing your time & effort. My mate Dav's site is here, it's so impressive what he does, & I often work with him as a performer/Ringmaster too http://www.davbernard.co.uk

[Neil-Betamax]

Update - The method worked!

Update - sorry, this is in the wrong thread! Excuse me.