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  1. Member
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    Heard and experienced several times, that fast panning when recording in 25p causes flicker, and filmmakers try to avoid it. However I have just run into this clip. Interestingly it is full of fast camera movements, yet I see no serious flickers in it. Considering it is a 80's clip, I guess it was shot in a framerate 24,25 or 30p. So what's the trick here? Is it the low contrast, or the the video clip is actually interlaced?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a3ir9HC9vYg
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  2. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    No existing youtube clips are interlaced any more.

    Like most Hollywood movies, and film-based music videos, this was very likely shot at 24p. What it did was use a longer-than-normal exposure (many/most 24p shoots use a 180degree angle aka 1/48th sec shutter speed as standard).
    This thus trades judder (the more accurate term for what you were refering to as flicker) for blur.

    Newer consumer cameras & lenses, and the common way that many consumers use them, utilizes a much faster shutter speed (aka shorter exposure) during the same framerate, trading smoothness & lack of noise (but with blur) for sharpness & greater depth of field & smaller lenses & sensors and judder. This is parallel to but independent of rolling shutter effects vs. shutter speed vs. object/camera motion speed.

    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 27th May 2017 at 00:17.
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  3. Member
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    I always use that setting on my camcorder for shutter speed, however I still get much flicker in certain views. But I guess this contrast is still too high that the camcorder sets, and also the sharpness.
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  4. They kept the flicker down by using dark shots, low contrast, depth-of-field, motion blur, quick cuts, etc.
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  5. Member
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    What I don't uderstand then, is that what's the use of the cinema mode on some Canon camcorders, when most of these settings are not available on them, and due to the sharp and high contrast image you will get terrible judder. And most TV's will just strengthen it by their default correction settings. Seeing these video clips, and also knowing that interlacing has been existing for decades, actually the audience has been presented a smoothly playing video. Using the 25p on modern handycams where you don't have the crucial settings to avoid judder is actually a leap backward to this, even to VHS in this sense. I know many people who considers 25p as superior to 50i, simply because being progressive and thus sharper, but regarding judder they won't even reach the level of the 80's clips.
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  6. It is just words, cinema mode etc.

    You cannot replace expensive lenses, DOF, lighting, scene setups just choosing some "mode" in cheap camcorder (well it could be even $1000 one)

    I used to shoot 30p all the time with 1/30 shutter, because 1/60 would give judder. So you get less or no judder but blur if whatever moves. You almost cannot move camcorder or you have to follow object in the frame having it sharp but everything else is blurred. That fascinated me, an it looks excellent, any video has this cinema look to it, but you cannot shoot whatever you want and is is annoying doing it like that all the time. AND I'm talking about 30p not even 25p. Those handy 5 frames could be heck of a difference here.

    Cinema mode is useless, you have to go full manual, 1/25 (1/50 would judder, just try it). That means definitely ND filter shooting outdoor, not mentioning in the bright sun. You cannot have shutter speed that long without ND filter. That means as soon as you go indoors you'd need to take it down. And whatever effort you give it, you'll get blurry scenes anyway, more than you wish. It is annoying. Film makers they do not mind changing the whole setup just for a particular shot.

    There cannot be setting on a camcorder to guarantee smoother playback while shooting 25p.
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  7. The real solution is shoot and distribute at 50p (or 59.94p for NTSC). Leave interlaced video in the dustbin of history.
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  8. Member
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    But good luck with the Luddites who can't bear to part with "the film look."
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  9. I think most people who would use "film" mode on a camcorder think it will make their poorly thought out, poorly lit, poorly framed, shaky, noisy, crappy video look like it was shot by a professional movie crew. It won't.
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  10. Member
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    Actually on Canon the movie mode offers some nice color modifications to the recording, that side is useful. It functions the same way like Instagram effects. But the 24p on NTSC versions... the way how the camcorder sets the contrast and sharpness, it will never work the same way as in case of the recordings I referred to in the opening thread. Very much judder.
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