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  1. Be careful, the Skydigital device is flaky. So you will get from time to time BSOD because of conflicting IRQs. Only put the device in the USB port if you want to make a record, after recording plug it off. If its not plugged in then it doesnt harm your system. Good luck, perhaps your mainboard is more stable than mine, who knows?!
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  2. Originally Posted by end-user View Post
    Is there no such thing then as a device that converts TOSLINK DD AC3 5.1 output to DD LPCM 5.1 in line on the fly?
    I think my A/V receiver can take in AC3 via HDMI or SPDIF and spit it out as PCM over HDMI, but I dunno about channel limits.
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  3. Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    If you don't know this already, your lossless HD captures are going to be pretty massive and in the 100GB range per hour.
    ^this^
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  4. XXXXX (or anyone else who knows about these things),

    I've connected my Skydigital U3.0 USB external capture card to my computer, downloaded the drivers and installed the Skydigital recording program version 2.0p2. I was able to download the ut video codecs, which automatically installed themselves within the Skydigital recording program as a choice. Is it possible to get other lossless codecs like MagicYUV, lagarith or huffyuv into the Skydigital recording software as a choice? I downloaded and installed those 3 codecs onto my computer as well, but they don't show up as a choice within the Skydigital recording program.
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    I believe those other codecs are based on Video For Windows and apparently Skydigital doesn't link to them. VirtualDub and AmaRecTV will.
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  6. Haven't tried recording yet, but the colors inputting into the Skydigital software display via HDMI are skewed heavily towards green.

    Remember, this is OTA broadcast material coming out of a DirecTV DVR. Could this be HDCP related? The signal is actually coming through, though. It's just in the wrong colors. [I currently have no HDCP stripper in line at this point.]
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  7. The Skydigital capture program is the only program which has the possibility to record AC3 audio + video. (NO other program) You must also use user defined settings in the recording program+select the right direct show lossless video codec, e.g. utvideo, see the already posted picture.
    Originally Posted by xxxxx View Post
    This is the setting that you must achieve.
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  8. jagabo, thanks for the great link to that old thread. It was very informative, especially the part about BT.601 vs. BT.709. Funny though, after I posted here, I shut down my computer,went to work for about 5 hours, and when I came back I turned on the computer all the colors that were skewed with a heavily green tint were now normal in the Skydigital display. I had already rebooted once before I posted earlier and it was still green. Now it looks great!

    XXXXX, yes thank you. I actually pulled up your screenshot early this morning and used it to enter the same settings into my Skydigital software. Thanks to you, I was able to get all of the utvideo codecs in there easily. Perhaps I posted prematurely, but after I rebooted the computer, Lagarith and MagicYUV codecs suddenly appeared in my encoding choices in the Skydigital software. I still don't have huffyuv in there, though. Do you (or anyone) know if I can just manually drag the huffyuv.dll file into a Skydigital folder to make it appear as a codec choice?

    Also, I assume that when given the choice, I should choose DMO over VCM. Is that correct?
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  9. There's no point in using Huffyuv for this purpose. It isn't as efficient or as fast as the newer codecs with modern hardware. Especially with HD.
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  10. The old 32 bit Huffyuv doesn't install properly on 64 bit Windows. You need to use a special procedure:

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/271712-Lame-MP3-Encoder-on-Vista-x64#1723154

    I don't know if the 64 bit version works or not. But I agree, there's no need for huffyuv if you have all those other lossless codecs working.
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  11. The Skydigital software gives me the choice of choosing utvideo codec rec.709 VCM or rec.709 DMO. Which one should I choose?
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  12. AFAIK the author is supporting UT as a DirectShow (or DMO as he calls it) codec.
    VCM=also called "VfW codec"=Video for Windows
    I dont know whats better for your needs, have a look yourself in wikipedia.
    I think that DMO is fine.
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  13. I'm trying to pick up where I left off after the unexpected passing of my father in July.

    The Skydigital U3.0 USB seems to be working very well for the most part. Great quality video. Im trying to sort out which codec to use, and Im finding that certain media players wont play certain recordings, depending on which codec was used to record them. Media info confirms that the files that were recorded with all of the below codecs contain both video and audio but

    For example, if the recording was made with

    UtVideo YUV422 BT.709 DMO --> Windows Media Player, Movies & TV, VLC, AVP play audio only. SMPlayer plays video + audio.

    UtVideo YUV422 BT.709 VCM --> Movies & TV, VLC, AVP play audio only. WMP, SMPlayer play audio + video.

    UtVideo YUV422 BT.601 DMO --> Movies & TV plays audio only. WMP, VLC, SMPlayer, AVP play audio + video.

    UtVideo YUV422 BT.601 VCM --> Movies &TV, WMP play audio only. VLC, SMPlayer, AVP play audio + video.

    MagicYUV - YUV 4:2:2 --> Movies & TV, WMP, AVP play neither audio nor video. VLC, SMPlayer play both audio + video.

    Lagarith Lossless Codec --> Movies & TV plays audio only. WMP, VLC, SMPlayer, AVP play audio + video.

    Is anyone else having this issue with these codecs?
    Is there any way to get more lossless codecs inside the SkyDigital capture software?
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    Originally Posted by end-user View Post
    I'm trying to pick up where I left off after the unexpected passing of my father in July.

    The Skydigital U3.0 USB seems to be working very well for the most part. Great quality video. Im trying to sort out which codec to use, and Im finding that certain media players wont play certain recordings, depending on which codec was used to record them. Media info confirms that the files that were recorded with all of the below codecs contain both video and audio but

    For example, if the recording was made with

    UtVideo YUV422 BT.709 DMO --> Windows Media Player, Movies & TV, VLC, AVP play audio only. SMPlayer plays video + audio.

    UtVideo YUV422 BT.709 VCM --> Movies & TV, VLC, AVP play audio only. WMP, SMPlayer play audio + video.

    UtVideo YUV422 BT.601 DMO --> Movies & TV plays audio only. WMP, VLC, SMPlayer, AVP play audio + video.

    UtVideo YUV422 BT.601 VCM --> Movies &TV, WMP play audio only. VLC, SMPlayer, AVP play audio + video.

    MagicYUV - YUV 4:2:2 --> Movies & TV, WMP, AVP play neither audio nor video. VLC, SMPlayer play both audio + video.

    Lagarith Lossless Codec --> Movies & TV plays audio only. WMP, VLC, SMPlayer, AVP play audio + video.


    Is anyone else having this issue with these codecs?
    Is there any way to get more lossless codecs inside the SkyDigital capture software?
    I don't know how to advise you regarding the best lossless codec to use for the purpose of watching losslessly encoded video. The way you are using lossless captures is unusual. Most of those who capture with lossless codecs don't view their recordings in that form except perhaps to check them for errors. They might keep their lossless captures as archival copies, but re-encode to something more typical, such as high-bitrate H.264, for viewing.

    "Movies and TV", knows what AC3 is, but doesn't include decoders for lossless video codecs, since it is designed to play what is used commercially using various Microsoft Direct Show filters. I don't think you could add the missing pieces.

    I found some wise words from poisondeathray in another thread: "Lossless codecs are only lossless in the same color model / color space." and "Use the UT version that matches your source." All the recordings I've examined from ATSC TV broadcasts use YUV, 4:2:0 chroma subsampling, and bit depth = 8 bits. Also BT.601 is only supposed to be used for SD video while BT.709 is only supposed to be used for HD video. Although once in a while someone forgets to convert from BT.601 to BT.709 when upscaling SD material for broadcast on an HD channel.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 9th Sep 2017 at 02:17.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried
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  15. I agree with usually_quiet. So what if your lossless videos aren't played by everything? I work with Lagarith (which plays fine in MPC-HC) but my end formats are DVD and MP4. One reason for using lossless is because it's suitable for editing, and I do a lot of editing. But then, I don't archive high quality videos for possible later reworking and I don't try and play lossless videos on my television. Once I'm done, the lossless ones are deleted and I keep my DVDs for myself and for sharing and my MP4s for myself and for YouTube.

    My suggestion is to encode them for some final format and then forget about your lossless caps or save them for the future.
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  16. usually_quiet, as usual thanks for the great info.

    Yeah, maybe you & manomo are right. I'm not saying I can't live with lossless videos not being played by everything. I just wanted to know if it was normal or not to have all these variations in which players will play what recordings. It sounds like it is. And by the way, the reason I'm using YUV 4:2:2 to record 4:2:0 native video is to avoid the potential issue of mangled chroma that vaporeon800 pointed out in post #82 earlier in this thread:

    Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post

    quote from end-user: Could anyone confirm that I would mainly be operating within an 8 bit YUV12 4:2:0 colorspace?
    I guess you mean YV12, which is just the FOURCC for a particular byte order of 8-bit YUV 4:2:0 data. Yes, I would target that as your archive medium with lossless compression, but it isn't an option for capturing with Blackmagic's software.

    Even if you use other hardware/software, I would avoid trying to capture 1080i in 4:2:0 unless you can carefully control the subsampling method used. There is an ongoing thread where the user just switched from 4:2:0 capture to 4:2:2 because he was informed of mangled chroma.
    I guess I should try recording with YUV 4:2:0 and see if they play on more players, but I'm not sure how I'd even recognize mangled chroma if it existed. How would I?


    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I found some wise words from poisondeathray in another thread: "Lossless codecs are only lossless in the same color model / color space." and "Use the UT version that matches your source." All the recordings I've examined from ATSC TV broadcasts use YUV, 4:2:0 chroma subsampling, and bit depth = 8 bits.
    But recording 4:2:0 material with 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 codecs is still 100% lossless, it just increases the file size, right?


    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Also BT.601 is only supposed to be used for SD video while BT.709 is only supposed to be used for HD video. Although once in a while someone forgets to convert from BT.601 to BT.709 when upscaling SD material for broadcast on an HD channel.
    I do realize from jagabo's earlier post that generally BT.601 is for SD and BT.709 is for HD, but are you suggesting that a BT.601 recording of a BT.709 broadcast is not actually lossless?
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  17. Originally Posted by end-user View Post
    the reason I'm using YUV 4:2:2 to record 4:2:0 native video is...
    Your video capture device captures and outputs one scanline at a time as YUV 4:2:2. It doesn't matter that the source was YUV 4:2:0.

    Originally Posted by end-user View Post
    I'm not sure how I'd even recognize mangled chroma if it existed. How would I?
    Bob the video then look for blurred and/or striped colors on moving colored objects. It's especially visible in cartoons because of the saturated colors and large movements from frame to frame. Here the pencil is moving but the chroma is a striped mix of colors from the current field and the next field:

    Click image for larger version

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    Originally Posted by end-user View Post
    are you suggesting that a BT.601 recording of a BT.709 broadcast is not actually lossless?
    I believe this is only a matter of how the video is flagged when it's output. Internally it probably handles them exactly the same.
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    I didn't realize the Skydigital U3.0 USB uses YUV 4:2:2 chroma subsampling. I looked for specs indicating that it does, but found nothing. Finally I found a screenshot of capture software showing YUV 4:2:2 at several resolutions, rather than YUV 4:2:0. So, someone with this device would want to use one of the UTVideo YUV 4:2:2 encoders.

    I'll have to take jagabo's word that there is no difference in the way UTVideo handles BT.601 and BT.709 video, other than flagging.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried
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  19. jagabo, when you say to "Bob the video", do you mean shake the recording window up and down when it's recording? Or during playback? Or during pause (when on playback)?

    In this other thread post #33, you mention that the chroma in the mp4 that jaibubwan provided in post #32 (clip from Denzel Washington movie) is messed up, but I can't recreate the blurred kind of image in your example above. How can you tell the chroma is messed up in his clip?
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  20. xxxxx or anyone else care to take a stab at how I might get more lossless codecs into the Skydigital capture software. As of right now, the software has lagarith, Magic YUV and a multitude of different utvideo codecs.
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    Originally Posted by end-user View Post
    jagabo, when you say to "Bob the video", do you mean shake the recording window up and down when it's recording? Or during playback? Or during pause (when on playback)?
    Just in case this is not a joke, bob deinterlacing the fastest deinterlacing method, and while the deinterlaced video appears to shake when played, it is fine for detecting mangle chroma. Mangled chroma is more apparent in deinterlaced video.

    You would re-encode and apply bob deinterlacing, then watch with a software player or video editor that allows you step through the frames.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 10th Sep 2017 at 15:51. Reason: fix typo
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried
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  22. Originally Posted by end-user View Post
    jagabo, when you say to "Bob the video", do you mean shake the recording window up and down when it's recording? Or during playback? Or during pause (when on playback)?
    I meant to apply a bob filter. The two fields are separated and then the missing scan lines are simply interpolated lines above and below. This is a simple and fast method of deinterlacing, though not the best visually as the picture appears to bob up and down by a scanline when viewed.

    Originally Posted by end-user View Post
    In this other thread post #33, you mention that the chroma in the mp4 that jaibubwan provided in post #32 (clip from Denzel Washington movie) is messed up, but I can't recreate the blurred kind of image in your example above. How can you tell the chroma is messed up in his clip?
    It's hard to detect in that video as there isn't a lot of motion. But here's a crop from near the top left of the frame, early in the video, bobbed, speed reduced to 2 fps, with the saturation cranked up to make the colors more visible:

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    You can see that the colors are moving independently of the luma so they don't align correctly. You don't always see the stripes like in my earlier post depending on exactly what's going on.
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  23. My knowledge and experience is with the practical applications of these programs. I admit I have many knowledge gaps with respect to the technical details of video, so no, I actually wasnt joking. I had not heard of bob deinterlacing, but thanks guys for the great explanations to give me a head start to delve into it. And jagabo, thanks for taking the time to actually create a little clip to illustrate it. I am eager to learn. What's interesting is that to the naked eye in real time, that video appears to be of very high quality.
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    Ever thought about openup your recorder, putting out the HDD, connect it to a PC en try to read the files natively?
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    Originally Posted by Mano Bakker View Post
    Ever thought about openup your recorder, putting out the HDD, connect it to a PC en try to read the files natively?
    It is probably possible to copy the files, but recordings are encrypted to prevent anyone from watching them without DirecTV's hardware.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 12th Sep 2017 at 11:34.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried
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  26. Sorry but I dont know many more lossless codecs for the Skydigital except lagarith, Magic YUV and utvideo codec.
    I dont understand why you need more codecs, you already have 3?
    I never used more for my personal recordings, sorry.
    You must search the web for other codecs (direct show) if you need more.
    Just install them and have a look if you can use them in the Skydigital Capture program.
    You must "play" with the different options in the capture software to integrate your downloaded direct show codecs.
    First install the codec.
    Then reboot.
    Then look in the capture soft if you can see/select it.
    Then make a test recording.
    If that doesnt work try another video/audio muxer.
    Make another recording.
    And so on till it it works.
    If not, try to find another codec.
    Perhaps look at Mainconcept, but these codecs cost money.
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