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  1. This issues has come up all of a sudden, and I can't place it. I've been speaking to customer support for my card for months now, but it's going nowhere, so I'm running out of ideas. At some point in January, my capture card started to introduce stutter into recordings. It's not huge. Usually it's just a dropped frame or two every couple of minutes. Nonetheless, it's enough to bother me quite a bit. I've uploaded a 20 second sample to Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwcmLwA0J0b2RC1xaUxNc3JGWHM/view

    You can see it especially at the beginning and near the end, with the camera angle from the side. I'll list the troubleshooting steps I've been through from memory, in no particular order.

    1. I have the capture card installed in my desktop computer. Usually, I grabbed the screen of a Surface Pro 3. When issues started occurring, I tried capturing directly from the same desktop that has the capture card installed. Same exact issues.
    2. I tried re-installing Windows, all fresh. Neither Windows 8.1 nor Windows 10 helped.
    3. I tried switching from my Nvidia GPU (Gigabyte GTX 1060 6 GB) to my Intel internal graphics. I also tried an older AMD card (HD 6950), to no effect.
    4. I tried changing capture settings. I usually capture at 1080p29.97. The card allows going down to 720p50 at the lowest, which showed the same problems.
    5. I tried different codecs and formats. None helped.
    6. I tried both Blackmagic's Media Express software as well as OBS Studio for capturing. On Media Express, I tried 8-bit YUV, 10-bit YUV, Motion JPEG. On OBS I tried both using x264 as well as hardware encoding with my CPU and GPU, lossless and lossy.
    7. I tried different storage mediums. Even my SSD can't keep up, Samsung 850 Pro, 512 GB. RMAed the hard drive I usually take (WD Black 6 TB), but that wasn't the faulty part either. Shows write speed of at least 200 MB/s, lossless 8-bit, 1080p29.97 capture with Media Express requires 140 MB/s maximum, which Windows Task Manager seems to confirm. Hard drive is completely empty, thus not fragmented.
    8. I actually changed large parts of my system in early February, about two to three weeks after issues started occurring. Old system (that I'd used almost a year for capturing without issues):
    Processor: Intel i5-3570k
    RAM: 16 GB DDR3 (4x4)
    MoBo: ASUS P8Z77-V LE Plus
    GPU: Gigabyte G1 Gaming GTX 1060 6 GB (had an AMD R9 380 for a while before the issues occurred)
    Same SATA devices, same case, same PSU

    New system:
    Processor: Intel i7-6700k
    RAM: 32 GB DDR4 (2x16)
    MoBo: ASUS Z270F Gaming
    GPU: Gigabyte G1 Gaming GTX 1060 6 GB

    Nothing changed with the new hardware.

    9. Tried playing with process priorities, and shutting down everything in the background.
    10. Disabling PCIe power saving options in the BIOS.
    11. Switching PCIe slots. (MoBo has one x4, one x8 open, capture card requires x4)
    12. Different video players. Thought maybe capturing was fine, and it's only the playback that doesn't work. MPC-HC, mpv on two different systems and my PS4 show the exact same frame drops.
    13. Different capture card. I bought a Magewell USB capture device (intentionally didn't go for PCIe, in case that's completely busted), had the exact same stuttering issues.
    14. Running capture software in compatibility mode, as administrator (got desperate at some point).
    15. Using older capture card drivers that had worked previously for almost a year. Blackmagic fortunately offers older versions for download.
    16. Checked heat, too. Nothing is running too hot.
    17. Sent in the capture card to the manufacturer for testing. They didn't report any issues and sent it back to me.
    18. Tried different HDMI cables. No changes.

    I think that's all I did so far. Since I've been through quite a few steps, over quite some time, I apologise if I've forgotten something. What really messes with me is how pretty much none of the old hardware is left, and what little is left (the HDD) was RMAed and shows great speeds, so shouldn't be faulty. Software seems fine, since old versions of the Blackmagic driver have worked for months, so they can't be broken. GPU drivers may be broken, since I do have some issues with my current graphics card, but I tried three different GPUs, I don't think all of them are busted. Windows installation has been re-installed multiple times.

    I've also gone through the sticky here. Some of it is outdated on a post from 2003 of course, but I've still checked.

    What I'm left with is maybe BIOS settings? I'm not very knowledgeable about it, but I don't understand how the problem could've appeared so spontaneously if I didn't change anything there previously. I only started changing some things when the issues already occurred. The sudden nature of the problem had me thinking some hardware failure must be the culprit, but as I said, I'm running out of ideas which part that could be at this point. I'd be very grateful for any hints and ideas at what I should be looking. If you need any information I forgot to give, feel free to ask.
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  2. Your sample appears to be a capture of a media player playing a video file. Yes, there are missing and duplicate frames. But there's no way of knowing which problems are in the video file being played, problems of the media player displaying the file, or the capture.
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  3. Sorry for my late reply and thanks for your quick one.

    Yes, it's using the same capture, but the point that capturing is stuttery stands. As I pointed out, I tried different video players and different systems to go as far as I can to eliminate the possibility of playback being affected. I also made another video (this time recorded with my phone, showing two different video players + comparison to original video) for customer support showing the stuttering. If you want to see that other video, here's the link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwcmLwA0J0b2a3dUeWZOTDRyXzQ/view

    The first video is my bad recording played back in Blackmagic Media Express, the second video is that same bad recording played back in MPC-HC (larger screen, better visibility), the third video is the original file I've been recording from, which is by no means perfectly smooth, but looks much better than the recording.
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  4. Member
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    $200 for the card and $10,000 for the time and effort trying to make it work. That's why I stay away from Blackmagic products.
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  5. I've only skimmed the OP so I can't tell whether you covered this.

    What resolution are you capturing, and did you try dropping the source to lower res and capturing at that res?
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  6. Originally Posted by JVRaines View Post
    $200 for the card and $10,000 for the time and effort trying to make it work. That's why I stay away from Blackmagic products.
    I heard both good and bad. Frankly, I'm fairly certain that there is SOME issue with my system and that it's not related to the card itself. It worked fine for about a year and I tried a Magewell USB capturing device that showed the same issues. I don't blame you for your distaste for Blackmagic though, it seems that it's shared by a lot of people.

    Would there be an alternative you'd recommend though, in case I have to switch in the future? My only requirements are support of lossless capture and 1080p29.97 as a supported resolution/framerate.

    Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    I've only skimmed the OP so I can't tell whether you covered this.

    What resolution are you capturing, and did you try dropping the source to lower res and capturing at that res?
    No worries, I get that the OP is pretty long. I want to capture at 1080p29.97, which worked without an issue for about a year, but I did try lowering the resolution. The lowest that the card supports is 720p50, but even then I get the exact same issue. It didn't even ameliorate it in the slightest.
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  7. 720p50 is only about 10 percent less bandwidth than 1080p29.97, not a significant difference. And just because your drive shows 200 MB/s with some test program doesn't mean it can sustain 140 MB/s while capturing, especially once it has become fragmented. Try using a fast lossless intra codec like UT Video Codec while capturing. That will get the bandwidth low enough for even the slowest areas of the drive.

    And try shutting down any antivirus software that may be scanning the data as it's being written.
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  8. Member
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    Originally Posted by bschneider View Post
    Would there be an alternative you'd recommend though, in case I have to switch in the future? My only requirements are support of lossless capture and 1080p29.97 as a supported resolution/framerate.
    Look at the Aja KONA LHe plus for a top-notch option. Much less expensive is the StarTech USB 3.0 Capture Device, which has had mixed reviews here.
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  9. Also, don't compress the audio while capturing. It's very common for audio codecs (which are often usually threaded) to fall behind.
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  10. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    720p50 is only about 10 percent less bandwidth than 1080p29.97, not a significant difference. And just because your drive shows 200 MB/s with some test program doesn't mean it can sustain 140 MB/s while capturing, especially once it has become fragmented. Try using a fast lossless intra codec like UT Video Codec while capturing. That will get the bandwidth low enough for even the slowest areas of the drive.

    And try shutting down any antivirus software that may be scanning the data as it's being written.
    Okay, that's good to know. I understand that a five minute test does not tell me enough about consistent speeds, but as I said, it worked for roughly a year (even when the drive was 50% full), so I'd say the drive should be able to sustain the speed. There's also no fragmentation, since the drive is completely empty. The audio I capture is also uncompressed, so I think that shouldn't be the issue. At least the audio settings have always been the same, so I'm not sure whether that should affect the recordings now.

    I think I tried without antivirus before, but I'll give it another shot. I'll also have a look at the codec you mentioned. I assume I'll have to use OBS with ffmpeg to use it for capturing? I've used different codecs for encoding files, but not for recording something before.

    Originally Posted by JVRaines View Post
    Look at the Aja KONA LHe plus for a top-notch option. Much less expensive is the StarTech USB 3.0 Capture Device, which has had mixed reviews here.
    The Aja is way out of my league, sadly. I will keep the Startech one bookmarked though, thank you!

    EDIT: I just did a recording with UT and my antivirus turned off (went as far as cutting internet and killing all processes related to my AV). If anything, the stuttering is worse than it usually is. Nothing was running except OBS and MPC-HC, which I was recording from. The 90 minute recording turned out 165 GB large.
    Last edited by bschneider; 23rd Apr 2017 at 07:27.
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  11. Originally Posted by bschneider View Post
    The lowest that the card supports is 720p50, but even then I get the exact same issue.
    I own the card. The lowest res it captures, including over HDMI, is 480i. If you feed it a 480p source, it will hardware convert to 480i. Do you have an HDMI source that can output either of those resolutions?

    Also disable audio capture while testing.

    Originally Posted by bschneider View Post
    The Aja is way out of my league, sadly.
    Sells as low as $70 used, without cables ($50+$20 ship). You do have to be wary of what connectivity you get when you buy a card without the included breakout cables. Often, it will be useless and tracking down a seller of replacement cables ends up costing much more than the card itself.

    But that specific card that JVRaines mentioned is HD-SDI, not HDMI.
    Last edited by vaporeon800; 23rd Apr 2017 at 09:40.
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  12. Lone soldier Cauptain's Avatar
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    Hi bschneider, look for Avermedia GC570 aka Live Gamer HD 2 (1080p@60 uncompressed/compressed output)

    Link review: https://nerdtechy.com/avermedia-live-gamer-hd2-review

    I bought this, some weeks to get on my hands.



    Claudio
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  13. Does AVerMedia still have the integer vs. "NTSC" frame rate issue like the C127 and their earlier 1080p60 models?
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  14. Lone soldier Cauptain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    Does AVerMedia still have the integer vs. "NTSC" frame rate issue like the C127 and their earlier 1080p60 models?
    I can only respond when I have it in my hands



    Claudio

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  15. Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    I own the card. The lowest res it captures, including over HDMI, is 480i. If you feed it a 480p source, it will hardware convert to 480i. Do you have an HDMI source that can output either of those resolutions?

    Also disable audio capture while testing.
    You're right, I totally skip over the NTSC and PAL options all the time. I should be able to get 480p/480i going since my source is actually my desktop computer. I'll disable audio capture the next time I test it, though I may not be able to run another test today or tomorrow, I'll have to see.

    Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    Sells as low as $70 used, without cables ($50+$20 ship). You do have to be wary of what connectivity you get when you buy a card without the included breakout cables. Often, it will be useless and tracking down a seller of replacement cables ends up costing much more than the card itself.

    But that specific card that JVRaines mentioned is HD-SDI, not HDMI.
    Yeah, I saw that it's not HDMI, but I could probably get that going another way. Really surprised by the price difference on ebay; the shops that sold it new were way more expensive, at least the ones I looked at. Switching the card is sort of a long-term consideration anyway, since I've already done that previously, and the same problems surfaced. Thanks for the heads-up!

    Originally Posted by Cauptain View Post
    Hi bschneider, look for Avermedia GC570 aka Live Gamer HD 2 (1080p@60 uncompressed/compressed output)

    Link review: https://nerdtechy.com/avermedia-live-gamer-hd2-review

    I bought this, some weeks to get on my hands.
    Thanks for the recommendation, but as I mentioned, I'm fairly certain the error in my setup is not related to the specific capture card at the moment. Before I would consider getting another card, I'd like to see what is broken in my current system.
    Last edited by bschneider; 23rd Apr 2017 at 14:04.
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  16. Okay, so I've tested last night again. I tried making a recording in NTSC/PAL, but OBS crashed every time when I chose a resolution below 720p. So instead I did a 720p59.94 recording with utvideo and no audio, no AV program. Looked the same as always, I don't think disabling the audio did anything.
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  17. Originally Posted by bschneider View Post
    I tried making a recording in NTSC/PAL, but OBS crashed every time when I chose a resolution below 720p.
    • BM's own Media Express
    • VirtualDub
    • AmaRecTV
    • other DirectShow capture apps...

    Does the Preview pane show the same stutter when you aren't capturing anything?
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  18. Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    • BM's own Media Express
    • VirtualDub
    • AmaRecTV
    • other DirectShow capture apps...

    Does the Preview pane show the same stutter when you aren't capturing anything?
    I can try Media Express later, but of course I can't use utvideo then, as jagabo suggested. In VirtualDub, I never got a picture, which usually indicates that some image setting (resolution, framerate, colour spectrum) was wrong, but I couldn't find anything wrong.

    Yes, the Preview pane shows the exact same stuttering patterns with and without recording/capturing. This was the same on the Magewell USB device I tried a while ago (and since returned).
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  19. Originally Posted by bschneider View Post
    Yes, the Preview pane shows the exact same stuttering patterns with and without recording/capturing. This was the same on the Magewell USB device I tried a while ago (and since returned).
    What are you capturing? Use a known clean source like a cable TV box, Satellite box, etc.
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  20. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    What are you capturing? Use a known clean source like a cable TV box, Satellite box, etc.
    Usually things on my desktop or video games (which I don't install on the hard drive I use for capturing, of course; sometimes from my PS4 too, but I don't use that for testing since console games usually stutter by themselves). The source isn't really the issue. As I've shown before, the source is noticeably smoother than the recording. Even just taking any window and moving it left and right shows stutter in the preview pane, when the computer is idling completely and the cables are intact. I also don't have any TV service, like you suggested.

    EDIT: What I mean is, the source is either my desktop, my laptop or my PS4. The first two are definitely "clean"; they produce a steady picture easily.
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  21. So you re-installed Windows 8.1 and 10; were you able to install those without any updates taking place? Since you said the problem started at some point in January.

    Maybe try a Linux install...? But first you still need to try SD.

    From the Similar Threads box at the bottom: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/345865-Blackmagic-Intensity-Pro-Flicker-Problem

    Wonder what he meant by flicker.
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  22. Running capture software/hardware on the same computer running the video/game/whatever you're capturing is just asking for trouble. Run the capture software/hardware on one computer (with nothing else running) and what you want to capture on another computer/device.
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  23. Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    So you re-installed Windows 8.1 and 10; were you able to install those without any updates taking place? Since you said the problem started at some point in January.
    Yeah, I tried both without updates (Windows 8.1 release was definitely from before January, W10 I don't remember) and with all updates but no other software. So I'm cautiously ruling out a software issue.

    Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    Maybe try a Linux install...? But first you still need to try SD.
    I just tried SD. Media Express didn't crash on NTSC, but of course I couldn't record without audio. Sadly, it's the same diagnosis. Stuttering didn't seem any milder than on 1080p or 720p. Don't really have experience with Linux and worry that I'll **** my system up. Dual boot has never liked me.

    Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    From the Similar Threads box at the bottom: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/345865-Blackmagic-Intensity-Pro-Flicker-Problem

    Wonder what he meant by flicker.
    I had a look at that before, but I don't think it's the same issue I'm having. I hooked up my Intensity to my PS4 and had some issues myself occasionally. The flickering was actual flickering, with major artifacts etc. Usually could be solved by a simple restart. Consoles can also make it harder since they don't always tell the user what framerate they're running at (but most TVs fortunately do), or because they run different framerates in menus vs. the actual game.

    I ordered the Startech capturing device that JVRaines suggested. It was available on Amazon, which means I can easily return it if it shows the same symptoms and troubleshooting doesn't get me any further on that either. Should arrive tomorrow and just maybe provide relief. It's worth a try, I think, even if my hopes aren't particularly high.

    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Running capture software/hardware on the same computer running the video/game/whatever you're capturing is just asking for trouble. Run the capture software/hardware on one computer (with nothing else running) and what you want to capture on another computer/device.
    I know that, and that's why I'm not running the tests with video games. I've tested capturing the screen of my Surface Pro 3 as well, and the symptoms are the same.
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  24. I own the StarTech and it's a fine device for HDMI capture, if you're okay with its manipulations to the image with certain resolutions/pixel formats. It's superior to the IP4K when fed YCbCr 4:4:4, but I assume you're sending RGB from your PC & Surface Pro.

    Originally Posted by bschneider View Post
    Don't really have experience with Linux and worry that I'll **** my system up. Dual boot has never liked me.
    Me neither. What I ended up doing was physically unplugging all other drives and using a small SSD dedicated only to Linux Mint.
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  25. Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    I own the StarTech and it's a fine device for HDMI capture, if you're okay with its manipulations to the image with certain resolutions/pixel formats. It's superior to the IP4K when fed YCbCr 4:4:4, but I assume you're sending RGB from your PC & Surface Pro.
    So I got the StarTech today, and it shows the exact same issues. I tried both my Surface as well as the desktop for the source. I think that rules out that the Intensity is broken, after the third capture device can't capture 1080p29.97 smoothly either. I also tried connecting the StarTech to the Surface, but the Surface is just way too weak to capture video. CPU usage goes through the roof and even OBS reports that it can't keep the framerate up.

    There are good news though; I lowered the resolution to 720p29.97. While that's a weird configuration that doesn't look very nice, it revealed that the Surface is able to handle that, at least for a few minutes. I don't get the same frame drops. Since the Surface's SSD is not faster than my desktop's, which shows the same stuttering as my HDD, I think write speed is not the culprit, if that makes sense. And since I pretty much have the same software installed on my Surface and my desktop (including the same Windows 8.1 installation), I think a software issue is also becoming less likely.

    My first thought is now that my motherboard may be the culprit. I've had a few weird issues (DVD drive spinning up every few seconds, front audio not working, video driver crashing despite normal GPU performance and no reported driver issues online), but some of them were solved after I re-installed Windows in January, so I figured that may have been it. Now I'm inclined to think that the mobo might still have issues. What do you think?

    Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    Me neither. What I ended up doing was physically unplugging all other drives and using a small SSD dedicated only to Linux Mint.
    That's a really good idea, actually, though my suspicion is still focussed on hardware. The only problem is that I sold my old SSD and don't really have any spare hard drives around. If push comes to shove, and I need to test under Linux, maybe installing it on a USB 3.0 flash drive would be sufficient? Not sure if it'd be smart to install the OS to the same HDD that I use to capture, because it's the only other one that's empty.

    And thanks for that link where you tested the different cards. Will definitely keep that tab open to have a closer look at it sometime (saw it late last night)
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  26. Originally Posted by bschneider View Post
    I've had a few weird issues (DVD drive spinning up every few seconds, front audio not working, video driver crashing
    And you didn't think to mention this until now.
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  27. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    And you didn't think to mention this until now.
    As I said, the Windows re-install solved two of those three problems, so I wasn't sure it was an issue with the motherboard. I've been through so many troubleshooting steps that I probably just forgot about it in the OP. You're right though, I should've mentioned it earlier.
    Last edited by bschneider; 27th Apr 2017 at 08:36.
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