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  1. My grandma has an old $6,000 plasma TV with no HDMI inputs. Right now she is using composite for output. The Comcast set-top boxes no longer include component. The only modern one that will work is the XG1 with component output. However, I heard that they have problems with some audio receivers, so that is out of the question.

    The only other option is Component or DVI. It's difficult to find a good HDMI to component converter. They either sometimes flash or burn up. DVI looks like the best choice, but that requires two outlets, one for the HDMI to DVI converter, and one for the copy protection. Also, it might be hard to find an active HDMI to dual-link DVI converter.
    Last edited by Hypersonic1; 7th Apr 2017 at 16:41.
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  2. Member fatbloke88's Avatar
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    Hi maybe something like this

    https://www.hdfury.eu/en/home/2-hdfury-3.html
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  3. Get an HDMI splitter (~US$20) that removes HDCP. DVI and HDMI are electrically and logically the same so you can use an HDMI to DVI cable (~US$10). You'll need to handle audio separately but it sounds like you're doing that anyway.
    Last edited by jagabo; 7th Apr 2017 at 22:16.
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    Originally Posted by Hypersonic1 View Post
    My grandma has an old $6,000 plasma TV with no HDMI inputs. Right now she is using composite for output. The Comcast set-top boxes no longer include component. The only modern one that will work is the XG1 with component output. However, I heard that they have problems with some audio receivers, so that is out of the question.

    The only other option is Component or DVI. It's difficult to find a good HDMI to component converter. They either sometimes flash or burn up. DVI looks like the best choice, but that requires two outlets, one for the HDMI to DVI converter, and one for the copy protection. Also, it might be hard to find an active HDMI to dual-link DVI converter.
    Comcast's Pace RNG110 cable boxes have outgoing RF, composite, component and HDMI connections. I don't think Comcast has discontinued it, although they are pushing their X1 system on new and existing customers. My mother has a Pace RNG110.
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  5. Sometimes the best solution is to replace the TV altogether. I don't say this lightly: believe me, I've endured several traumatic transitions with my own parents (who get addicted to the color and contrast of each successive TV, and take months to settle down with a new one). But technology trends evolve very quickly nowadays, and prices have dropped thru the floor since the era of $6000 plasma displays. In any case, if she's been watching thru a cable box composite connection, she's hardly reaped the full benefit of the $6000, so should have less "memory effect" transitioning to a new display. The equivalent new HDTV should run $600 or less, depending on size: a far cry from $6000.

    The main reason I'd go with a new HDMI-enabled TV is to avoid lip sync audio issues. I have seen this bug bite multiple friends and family who tried to re-purpose non-HDMI plasmas. The audio output via HDMI connection of cable boxes often has slightly different timing than the analog audio connection. If you adapt the HDMI video to "silent" DVI or component, but connect the separate analog feed to the audio system, lip sync can drift in and out depending on the program or channel. The issue is even worse with BluRay players.

    If getting a new TV is absolutely off the table, and the DVI trick does wind up causing audio lag, be persistent in asking Comcast for an older box with component output. Or, consider adding an HDMI-enabled external audio system that you can connect between the cable box and the DVI adapter (so the HDMI audio gets used instead of separate analog audio). Some workaround will eventually suffice, but simply getting a new TV wipes the slate clean and makes everything easier (esp in elder household where clutter is forbidden).
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  6. You can still get HDMI->Component converters like this:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A8FIQXA?th=1

    That's cheaper than the HDFury devices but may not work as well.
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    This is more likely to work well for HDCP-protected HDMI than the Portta converter: https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Premium-Quality-Component-Converter/dp/B017LVMAWG/
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  8. She isn't going to want to buy a new TV. She spent $6000 on that plasma, so it's not easy to buy a new one. The black levels are not as good on LCDs anyway.

    I connected an HDMI to DVI cable from my desktop into a 2005 DVI monitor with HDCP, but the same monitor would not work with a Blu-ray player or Comcast set-top box. There was a blank screen with a backlight. No message was displayed on the screen.

    The HDMI to component adapters are junk. They are suppose to blink every minute and sometimes burn up. Also, are there audio sync issues with the audio receiver when using an adapter?
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  9. Also, the RNG110 set-top box does not have Internet apps like Netflix or the voice remote; it's too old. Comcast has been getting rid of all of those boxes any way.
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  10. Originally Posted by Hypersonic1 View Post
    I connected an HDMI to DVI cable from my desktop into a 2005 DVI monitor with HDCP, but the same monitor would not work with a Blu-ray player or Comcast set-top box.
    Computer monitors often can't sync to TV standard signals (1080i at 29.97 fps, 720p at 59.94 fps).
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  11. I would think it would do 720p though. So the fact it doesn't work has nothing to do with an older version of HDCP?
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    Originally Posted by Hypersonic1 View Post
    Also, the RNG110 set-top box does not have Internet apps like Netflix or the voice remote
    Does grandma use those features now or at least show strong interest in using them? If not, my guess is that she never will and from her perspective is giving up nothing by getting a box without them. This is for her benefit, not yours, is it not?

    Originally Posted by Hypersonic1 View Post
    it's too old. Comcast has been getting rid of all of those boxes any way.
    They are not the newest, but are not obsolete. Comcast sent out notices asking that people test their cable boxes prior to the date when they changed their HD channels over to H.264 and exchange any equipment that did not pass the test. The RNG110 boxes work perfectly for H.264 HD channels. My guess is that customers can still get them if they insist on having them.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 9th Apr 2017 at 14:48.
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  13. Does grandma use those features now or at least show some interest in using them? If not, my guess is that she never will and from her perspective is giving up nothing by getting a box without them. This is for her benefit, not yours, is it not?
    Yes, she uses them. I went to the nearest Comcast office, and the Comcast guy said they had no component boxes. He did find one but I didn't want it because the XG1 has known to have issues with audio receivers. How ridiculous is it that Comcast set up that TV with a composite cable!

    I wonder if WOW is any better. I doubt she would switch anyway.
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    Originally Posted by Hypersonic1 View Post
    Does grandma use those features now or at least show some interest in using them? If not, my guess is that she never will and from her perspective is giving up nothing by getting a box without them. This is for her benefit, not yours, is it not?
    Yes, she uses them. I went to the nearest Comcast office, and the Comcast guy said they had no component boxes. He did find one but I didn't want it because the XG1 has known to have issues with audio receivers. How ridiculous is it that Comcast set up that TV with a composite cable!
    It makes perfect sense to do that when the customer has an old TV with no compatible connections for the cable box other than composite. The only other choice is to pack up their gear and leave the TV with no service.
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  15. It makes perfect sense to do that when the customer has an old TV with no compatible connections for the cable box other than composite. The only other choice is to pack up their gear and leave the TV with no service.
    No, it would make sense for them to install a box with component output.
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    Originally Posted by Hypersonic1 View Post
    It makes perfect sense to do that when the customer has an old TV with no compatible connections for the cable box other than composite. The only other choice is to pack up their gear and leave the TV with no service.
    No, it would make sense for them to install a box with component output.
    Except that you have eliminated all the cable box models that would provide component out from consideration because they are either too old or possibly incompatible with an audio receiver.

    Well, the only thing I can think of which has not yet been suggested is an HDMI to DVI + audio converter:
    https://www.amazon.com/Converter-Digital-Analog-Stereo-Adapter/dp/B00FCYKO8W/
    https://www.amazon.com/Revesun-high-definition-converter-convert-digital/dp/B00P28H4Y0/

    ...but since HDMI to component converters are all worthless junk, according to you, I doubt that some other form converter will be acceptable.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 9th Apr 2017 at 17:07.
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  17. I don't see an optical connector on that device. Since it doesn't decrypt, will she need an HDCP stripper? More boxes!
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    Originally Posted by Hypersonic1 View Post
    It makes perfect sense to do that when the customer has an old TV with no compatible connections for the cable box other than composite. The only other choice is to pack up their gear and leave the TV with no service.
    No, it would make sense for them to install a box with component output.
    The push for years has to been to close the analog hole. Composite is low enough quality not to be a major concern and there's the RF out for universal compatiblity.

    In addition, not including a feature that isn't used by the majority of users is money earned for the manufactuer and purchaser.
    Last edited by lingyi; 9th Apr 2017 at 18:36.
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  19. I am not sure what model her Bose receiver is. It's probably from 2005 again. I don't know what kind of audio output jacks those are.
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    Originally Posted by Hypersonic1 View Post
    I don't see an optical connector on that device. Since it doesn't decrypt, will she need an HDCP stripper? More boxes!
    True. The converter provides a coaxial connection instead of optical one for digital audio, but I could only guess what kind of audio connections the receiver might have.

    HDMI to DVI with optical audio converter: https://www.amazon.com/HUIERAV-Extractor-Output-Resolution-Converter/dp/B01K87S47U/

    You haven't mentioned testing the TV for HDCP compliance. Do know for certain that an HDCP stripper is needed?
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  21. I am somewhat confident that it has HDCP compliance, but if it's only HDCP 1.1, is that good enough for new set-top boxes?

    That doesn't look like the audio connector she has. I think her connector is a Toslink.
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    Originally Posted by Hypersonic1 View Post
    I am somewhat confident that it has HDCP compliance, but if it's only HDCP 1.1, is that good enough for new set-top boxes?

    That doesn't look like the audio connector she has. I think her connector is a Toslink.
    I don't know if HDCP 1.1 is good enough. Maybe someone else does. I have only heard of two situations where a particular version of HDCP is mandatory, 4K Netflix streaming and UHD Blu-ray.

    That converter provides a standard TOSLINK connection via an adapter. There is a smaller, mini TOSLINK connection on the box itself.

    If the adapter bothers you, there are mini TOSLINK to TOSLINK cables: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882203092
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 9th Apr 2017 at 21:00. Reason: correction to TOSLINK connection description. Added link to cable.
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  23. It doesn't look like it. The one I am looking for has a little door on it.
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  24. Note: this converter does not support Amazon Firestick.
    Why would it not support that? If it doesn't support it, I wonder if it would support the Comcast box.
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    Originally Posted by Hypersonic1 View Post
    Note: this converter does not support Amazon Firestick.
    Why would it not support that? If it doesn't support it, I wonder if it would support the Comcast box.
    The converter depends on its HDMI connection for power. Perhaps the Amazon Firestick doesn't supply enough (or maybe any power) via its HDMI connection.
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  26. That otherwise-clever HDMI>DVI/Audio converter usually_quiet referred you to has the tone-deaf connection glitches common to all these "here today-gone tomorrow" Chinese converter dongles. Instead of standard consumer Toslink, the audio connection most typically needed by someone trying to adapt an obsolete system, the dopey thing uses SPDIF connection mutliplexed thru the same 3.5mm mini jack it uses for analog audio output. From the pics, it seems to include a tiny 3.5mm to SPDIF adapter plug, to which presumably you could attach yet another converter box (SPDIF to Toslink). Or, just use the 3.5mm analog jack to connect analog audio to her sound system. Reviews imply the DAC is very quick with no lag, so this might work fine, albeit limited to a 2-channel stereo mixdown.

    As usually_quiet noted, that HDMI>DVI converter is engineered to get its power direct from the HDMI input source. Amazon Firestick works the same way, so they're incompatible (the Firestick HDMI is passive, relying on the TV to power it, so it just plays dead if plugged into an unpowered converter). Here once again, if you insist on pointlessly screwing with yet another cluttered workaround, I'm sure there are twenty more Chinese dongles that will power the damned Firestick for you while diverting its output to the converter. Whether this would work reliably is another question, and by the time you string three converters together you have a nice ugly rats nest for granny to trip over.

    You've already made it clear she's completely dismissed the idea of replacing the TV with a new one that will solve all her problems simply and easily, but for any future readers of this thread: think twice about not giving up your outmoded TV. Then, think again, change your mind, and get rid of the sucker. Time marches on, tech companies and Hollywood come up with new anti-consumer specs every couple of years. Neither gives a rats ass that you spent $6000 on your TV ten years ago: they've migrated to specs that require a TV have built-in HDMI, and too bad if you don't like it. It is what it is: change the TV, or forget about updating your cable box or getting Netflix, Amazon, or any other new-now-hip program sources.

    Cable, satellite, Netflix and Amazon are not granny-friendly in the least: they specifically engineer the newest versions to NOT be backwards-compatible or adaptable. They look for a direct proper HDMI connection to the TV, and if they don't find one, they will flake every which way from Sunday. Yeah, you might kinda-sorta-sometimes trick a conglomeration of adapters to work with the old TV, but it will bite you one way or another. Adapting HDMI to DVI is not as straightforward as you think: the conversion can mess with HDCP compatibility, which is gonna be prehistoric and shaky on a non-HDMI display to begin with. Maybe adding a splitter will work, maybe not: the TV could be hopelessly outmoded.

    Adapting is fine if all you want to do is occasionally connect a BluRay player or Xbox to an old TV in a spare room. But if you're like Hypersonic1's granny, and demand access to every of-the-moment source: get with the program. Your once-$6000 tv is no longer viable as an everyday driver. Your preference for the plasma image quality means absolutely nothing to Netflix, Amazon or Comcast. Grit your teeth, buy a nice 60" Sony LED panel for $1300, and you'll get reasonably close to plasma. For $2000 or so, OLED will get you closer. Or, do what the mass market does: hold your nose, buy a monster set at the local superstore for $600, and get used to run-of-the-mill LCD. It ain't great, but it connects seamlessly to every possible new source material. If you have the room, keep the old plasma as a secondary display, but don't expect it to remain usable with anything that doesn't have old-school component outputs.
    Last edited by orsetto; 10th Apr 2017 at 11:32.
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  27. Actually, I would think OLED would be just as good as Plasma for black levels.
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    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    That HDMI>DVI/Audio converter usually_quiet referred you to has the tone-deaf connection glitches common to all these "here today-gone tomorrow" Chinese converter dongles. Instead of standard consumer Toslink, the audio connection most typically needed by someone trying to adapt an obsolete system, the dopey thing uses SPDIF connection mutliplexed thru the same 3.5mm mini jack it uses for analog audio output. From the pics, it seems to include a tiny 3.5mm to SPDIF adapter plug, to which presumably you could attach yet another converter box (SPDIF to Toslink). Or, just use the 3.5mm analog jack to connect analog audio to her sound system. Reviews imply the DAC is very quick with no lag, so this might work fine, albeit limited to a 2-channel stereo mixdown.
    Maybe you should read more carefully and do some research before jumping in. The TOSLINK + DVI box I linked to has 5.1 channel support, controlled by a switch. True, the 3.5 mm port is a mini-TOSLINK port as well as an analog stereo port, but that set-up might not be unusual, since Wikipedia mentions it on its TOSLINK page. The mini-TOSLINK connector is longer than a 3.5 mm sereo mini-jack, and TOSLINK is optical, not electrical so there isn't a problem with the signals being in conflict.

    [Edit]

    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    As usually_quiet noted, that HDMI>DVI converter is engineered to get its power direct from the HDMI input source. Amazon Firestick works the same way, so they're incompatible (the Firestick HDMI is passive, relying on the TV to power it, so it just plays dead if plugged into an unpowered converter).
    The current Amazon Firesticks have a micro USB cable and a wall wart to supply power if needed, but I don't recall if the original version did. However, I suspect that many people with a newer Firestick do use HDMI alone for power.

    Most people are also using HDMI alone to power the TOSLINK + DVI box, but reading through the package contents again this morning, I noticed it does include a micro USB cable to supply additional power, which may be helpful for a PC monitor, but not so much for an old TV. It might be possible to find a wall wart + micro USB power adapter to supply power instead.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 10th Apr 2017 at 11:52.
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  29. How old is your HDTV or projector? If it was bought before 2005 it does not have an HDMI input. This means that you’ll never be able to use the full potential of your expensive projector, plasma display, or PC screen with new sources like the PS3, Xbox360, Blu-ray players, Cable TV / Satellite boxes, or PC graphics cards at up to 1080p FULLHD resolution.

    Without an HDMI input your display will be limited to 480p in most cases – that’s only 1/6th the resolution of 1080p FULLHD! You need HDfury3 to unlock the full potential of your display! Why buy an expensive new HDTV when your existing one works perfectly well? Enhance your display’s compatibly and value with HDfury3!
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    Originally Posted by acheter View Post
    How old is your HDTV or projector? If it was bought before 2005 it does not have an HDMI input. This means that you’ll never be able to use the full potential of your expensive projector, plasma display, or PC screen with new sources like the PS3, Xbox360, Blu-ray players, Cable TV / Satellite boxes, or PC graphics cards at up to 1080p FULLHD resolution.

    Without an HDMI input your display will be limited to 480p in most cases – that’s only 1/6th the resolution of 1080p FULLHD! You need HDfury3 to unlock the full potential of your display! Why buy an expensive new HDTV when your existing one works perfectly well? Enhance your display’s compatibly and value with HDfury3!
    The TV has DVI and component as its HD connections. That was mentioned in the initial post. On account of its age (Hypersonic1 kept mentioning 2005), 1080i would likely be the maximum supported input resolution.

    Realistically, since the TV is 12 years old or older, it could die at any time. An HDFury3 will be of limited use after the TV finally dies. Component connections are being eliminated on new TVs.

    The HDFury3 isn't sold in the USA, where Hypersonic1's grandmother lives. They must be ordered direct from the manufacturer at hdfury.com in China or from online sellers in Europe. The cost of the HDFury3 HDMI to component converter is $249 at hdfury.com. $249 is not a cheap fix.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 5th May 2017 at 12:00.
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