TBC in all DVD burners?

[jtech1]

I have read a lot about certain DVD burners being used as pass through TBC in path from VCR to capture card. I have a Philips DVDR-3355 that has S-Video in and out, but I cant find anything in the documentation about built in TBC. Is it just a fact that all DVD burners perform TBC and can be used in S-Video pass through, or do only certain models have this?

Also, I read a great thread here on the Magewell Pro Capture HDMI card for S-Video capture... and comments that it has a frame TBC that performs as well or better than DVD burner TBC or stand alone TBC like TBC-1000. But I can't find any reference to that in the Magewell specs or documentation.

Can anyone point me in the right direction with these two items?

[hech54]

i have read a lot about certain dvd burners being used as pass through tbc in path from vcr to capture card.

recorders.

[jtech1]

Sorry.. I meant recorder. The model # I listed above is a stand alone DVD recorder that accepts S-Video, composite or firewire input and has S-Video, composite and component outputs.

[orsetto]

The pass-thru capabilities of dvd recorders varies depending on year of mfr, brand name and exact model. Phillips machines of the 3355 era were pretty dismal overall, but I have not tested one for passthru performance (which has nothing to do with day-to-day usability as a recorder). Since you already own it, it should be easy enough for you to simply test its performance. The thing is, you need to know what you're looking for and why/if you even need a TBC or pass-thru in your particular setup.

Are you noticing any problems with dropped frames and loss of audio sync in your captures? Then a good dvd recorder passthru, or good TBC (if you can find one) will fix that. Prevention of frame drops is the number one reason people add a pass-thru or TBC. If you don't know what frame drops are or don't see anything obviously wrong with your captures, you might just get by not adding anything to your existing setup. The majority of consumer captures are done with minimal hardware. It generally doesn't hurt to include a passthru or TBC, and in most cases probably helps even if you can't see obvious improvements. Depends on your POV and how technical you want to be.

If you're having problems with Macrovision on commercial tapes, a dvd recorder passthru will not help you at all with that. You would need to add an MV filter box between the recorder and your VCR, or use a dedicated TBC instead of the recorder.

If you're having problems with geometric distortion (flagging at top of screen, wiggly verticals, washboard ripple, distorted shapes) then you likely need a very specific model of Panasonic dvd recorder. The DMR-ES10 is unmatched at curing this, while the ES-15 and ES-20 can be almost as good as long as the tapes aren't really terrible.

When choosing a dvd recorder for pass thru, avoid models made before 2006 (with the exception of Panasonic, as noted above). From 2002-2005, many recorders had weak or crappy response to VHS, about on par with a junky current USB capture dongle. Between 2005-2006, they got much better input circuits that are suitable for pass-thru VHS conditioning. But performance varies quite a bit from recorder to recorder, and the "date rules" are somewhat flexible (Toshiba XS machines from 2005 are good, while their DR series may or may not be). JVC/LG is all over the map, ditto Phillips. Pioneers made before 2005 are terrible at passthru, but the good later models tend to be too expensive because they're still in demand as daily recorders. Sony is similar: anything made before 2005-2006 is terrible, and they aren't much better after 2006 unless you pay too much for a DVD/HDD version. The catch, as with Pioneer and Toshiba, is anything with a hard drive that still works is in high demand, so big $$$.

Try your Phillips and see what happens: you might get lucky. If not, next step would be to look for a 2007-2016 cheap Toshiba or Magnavox dvd-only model. Extremely poor tapes will require the Panasonic ES10 and/or a "true" TBC. Be aware ALL of these devices have "gotchas" - some dvd recorders alter the picture quality slightly, most TBCs will show noticeable video softening, and quality control /sample variation of the DataVideo and AVT/CBT units is a major problem.

Re the Magewell Pro Capture HDMI: the "genuine" version has an excellent rep from owners on this forum, but you'd need to search the threads for comments specific to its "TBC" capability with VHS input. The "genuine" version is also wicked expensive, so the cost needs to be factored against how many tapes you would capture with it. Unless you're referring to the much cheaper knockoff version, which several members have reported as being quite good too.

[hech54]

I have an old Philips DVDR985 that I haven't had the heart to throw away.....never thought of using it as a passthru. I always assumed that was a Panasonic "thing".

[orsetto]

A great feature some of the older Phillips (pre-Funai) models have is built-in component>composite/S passthru conversion, which works better than most generic dedicated converters when connected between a decoder box anamorphic component outputs and a capture device composite or S-video inputs. I suppose it could get unwieldy having several old recorders stacked up for different tasks, but the price is certainly right. Of course, most folks who make widescreen recordings have largely moved on to HDMI true-HDTV capture solutions by now.

[usually_quiet]

Also, I read a great thread here on the Magewell Pro Capture HDMI card for S-Video capture... and comments that it has a frame TBC that performs as well or better than DVD burner TBC or stand alone TBC like TBC-1000. But I can't find any reference to that in the Magewell specs or documentation.

Can anyone point me in the right direction with these two items?

FLP437 mentioned a couple of chips on the card's circuit board in this post: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376945-Conventional-analog-capture-workflow-vs-alte...=1#post2461554 The data sheet for one of them confirms it includes a TBC: http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ADV7842.pdf

Re the Magewell Pro Capture HDMI: the "genuine" version has an excellent rep from owners on this forum, but you'd need to search the threads for comments specific to its "TBC" capability with VHS input. The "genuine" version is also wicked expensive, so the cost needs to be factored against how many tapes you would capture with it. Unless you're referring to the much cheaper knockoff version, which several members have reported as being quite good too.

Someone posted a link to one of the knock-offs, which was priced at about $250 vs about $300 for the genuine article. Other similar cards cost just as much as Magewell's :https://www.aliexpress.com/item/OPR-HD100-1080P-60FPS-PCI-E-HDMI-Grabber-Card-Supports...449230652.html Maybe it is the same hardware.

...but if someone is going to spend that much on a capture device, maybe knowing for certain what you'll get is worth the extra $50.

[themaster1]

I've read the Philips 3575 DVD Recorder is excellent (does better than a real standalone tbc like the datavideo) seehere

[vhelp]

I have the Panasonic XS-34, the Toshiba DR-430 and D-R4 dvd recorders. All have the line sync feature as the Panasonic ES10.

But my choice goes to the DR4 because it does not appear to alter the video image in my opinion, its as close to original going in.

Each of these devices alter the picture to some degree. Some are very minor like the DR4.

For someone coming into this new, you can easily get confused with what you see in terms of picture detail when determining various devices, including throwing in different vcr's during the testing phase.

[jtech1]

Thanks for the replies... I gave the 3355 a quick try with pass through... just connecting it between VCR and capture device with S-Video I got only recorder blue screen and logo at capture device... no source signal. Do I need to have a DVD in the recorder and have it recording to get pass through signal? I tried that but since I don't have the remote, I cant do anything but press the front panel record button, which shows an error icon on screen when I press it. Can recorders go into pass through if supported when not actually recording?

[usually_quiet]

Thanks for the replies... I gave the 3355 a quick try with pass through... just connecting it between VCR and capture device with S-Video I got only recorder blue screen and logo at capture device... no source signal. Do I need to have a DVD in the recorder and have it recording to get pass through signal? I tried that but since I don't have the remote, I cant do anything but press the front panel record button, which shows an error icon on screen when I press it. Can recorders go into pass through if supported when not actually recording?

DVD recorders normally provide more than one set of video inputs as well as a tuner, but they don't automatically switch to the one that is active. You need to select the one that you want to use. Assuming that you have the recorder set up correctly, and you have switched the recorder to use the same input that you have the VCR connected to, you should be seeing the output from the VCR.

The pass through should work even if the DVD recorder is not being used to record. When I had a cable box connected to either of the DVD recorders I have owned, I could watch cable programming on my TV via the pass through without recording it.

[orsetto]

Some Phillips recorders have an odd quirk that requires you dig into a settings menu to specifically activate the S-video inputs before you can use them. Without the remote, you're limited to the default composite connections. You should be able to get a composite passthru signal by pressing the channel up/down buttons on the front panel until you hit Line 1, Line 2, etc (whichever input you connected your VCR to). Every other brand of dvd recorder auto-detects composite or S-Video input at each set of inputs, so this odd additional manual setting required by Phillips frequently causes confusion (or assumptions the recorder is defective).

Phillips sells cheap universal remotes that will let you access the settings menu of your 3355, you should be able to find one for $10 at a local superstore, or via eBay/Amazon.

[jtech1]

Thanks everyone! That makes it worth a shot... I found a replacement remote on eBay and will give it a try in a couple days when I get it. I am planning on sending it video from a VHS that I know has a lot of issues on a standard deck without TBC... played on my 9900 it looks much better. I am hoping that using the plain deck signal with issues, through the DVD recorder will tell me if it is outputting a corrected signal or not...

[orsetto]

I just double-checked, and your 3355 works a bit differently than later Philips models. Instead of choosing S-video via menu, you change inputs by repeatedly pressing the REC/SOURCE button at the top left of the remote (assuming you ordered the original remote).

The REC/SOURCE button loops thru Front CVBS (composite), Front S-Video, Rear CVBS, Rear S-Video, Front DV.

There don't seem to be any channel or input buttons on the front panel, so the remote is a necessity.