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  1. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Hi everybody I want to do some HDV tape printing for fun using my Sony HVR-M15AU deck which is capable of recording progressive, What software is capable of printing progressive ? I tried Sony Vegas and I only have the option to print 1080 60i or 50i.
    Last edited by dellsam34; 6th Feb 2017 at 02:37.
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  2. Rancid User ron spencer's Avatar
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    printing????
    'Do I look absolutely divine and regal, and yet at the same time very pretty and rather accessible?' - Queenie
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  3. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ron spencer View Post
    printing????
    Probably means record.
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  4. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    youngsters yes printing to tape means taking a video from the timeline of a video editing suite and transferring exactly the same bits to tape. miniDV and HDV were the only forms of video to allow it.
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  5. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Only CONSUMER tape forms.
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  6. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Vegas should be able to do HDV printing to:
    720p 50/59.94
    1080i 50/59.94
    1080p 25/29.97 PsF
    720 & 1080 p 23.976 via Telecine & PsF

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV

    You may have to start with a progressive or PsF template and add your material in after creating the special project.

    Btw, other major NLEs such as Premiere, FCX, Edius and Media Composer should all be able to print to HDV in progressive or PsF modes, as well as Vegas.

    Also check https://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/micro/hdv/downloads/25641_Sony_HDV_Vegas_R2.pdf

    Scott
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  7. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Only CONSUMER tape forms.
    ok i feel like i'm getting old and forgetting things. other than DV and HDV, what other types could print back to tape? digital only, analog isn't the same.
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  8. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Vegas should be able to do HDV printing to:
    720p 50/59.94
    1080i 50/59.94
    1080p 25/29.97 PsF
    720 & 1080 p 23.976 via Telecine & PsF

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV

    You may have to start with a progressive or PsF template and add your material in after creating the special project.

    Btw, other major NLEs such as Premiere, FCX, Edius and Media Composer should all be able to print to HDV in progressive or PsF modes, as well as Vegas.

    Also check https://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/micro/hdv/downloads/25641_Sony_HDV_Vegas_R2.pdf

    Scott
    If you look at page 15 of the PDF file, only 60i and 50i are allowed to be printed to tape and that's exactly what I'm getting.
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  9. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    See attached picture:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	tape.png
Views:	122
Size:	34.4 KB
ID:	40480
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  10. Member
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    You might check out Final Cut Pro 7 if you can find a copy of it. FCP 7 had a lot of support for HDV.
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  11. Then print it interlaced. Load a clip into ReStream, change flag to interlaced , save it, load it into Vegas and print it to tape.

    Are you sure about that, capturing is quite a hassle, not really a way to go today. Your capturing device might be rust and dust later on.

    Just remember, you have to the opposite after capturing it back. Certain version of Vegas would even smart render 30p HDV, Vegas 8.0c, later versions perhaps could not do it and only interlace flagged HDV could be smart rendered. I used to change 30p HDV like that to edit it or storing it on hardisk to get rid of this "30p recorded as 30i nonsense" for good, having stored 30p.
    Snaps from ReStream flagging it as interlaced or progressive:
    Image Attached Images    
    Last edited by _Al_; 6th Feb 2017 at 21:51.
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  12. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Early HDV progressive camcorders generate progressive video from interlaced CCD sensors, So it is not quite progressive, But later on Sony brought the native progressive recording and put Progressive logo on all equipment that are capable of, my deck is one of them, Since it is true progressive no need to interlace the video unless the playback/capture device is not Progressive certified.
    Anyway I have few movies to print to a full size (180min) HDV tapes, I'm just doing it for fun I have no plans to capture the tapes back, Just want to see how HDV progressive looks on my 100" projection screen and I might make a youtube video about the HDV progressive.
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  13. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by teodz1984 View Post
    What this has to do with my question ?
    Last edited by dellsam34; 7th Feb 2017 at 02:24.
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  14. That Restream just gives it interlaced flag, nothing else. Video stays the same. It converts it like that in seconds, no re-encoding is done. This way Vegas would assume it is correct. But it is still progressive (with interlaced flags). Also is your resolution 1440x1080? Sure, we do stuff for fun, but HDV hardware would be pretty scarce if not already, I would not rely on it looking forward. Especially Sony's format. they love to kill their own formats as soon as they can.
    Last edited by _Al_; 7th Feb 2017 at 13:46.
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  15. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Since it is true progressive no need to interlace the video...
    It may just be encoded as interlaced, while the content is progressive. Happens all the time, including with the vast majority of PAL movies on DVD. If you don't see interlacing then it's not interlaced. Have you even tried yet, with a short sample, perhaps?
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  16. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Ok I will try to put a video in the time line and render it as 24p and have Vegas print it to tape and capture back to see if it prints it as progressive or at least shows progressive, What is the best media analyzer besides MediaInfo ?
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  17. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    What is the best media analyzer besides MediaInfo ?
    For this sort of thing MediaInfo is pretty much useless since it can only tell you how it was encoded and not what the content actually is. Your best analyzer is your own eyes. Either open it in a player you're sure isn't deinterlacing or (way better) make an AviSynth script with no other filter besides the source filter, open it in VDub and check sections with movement.
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  18. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    What is the best media analyzer besides MediaInfo ?
    For this sort of thing MediaInfo is pretty much useless since it can only tell you how it was encoded and not what the content actually is. Your best analyzer is your own eyes. Either open it in a player you're sure isn't deinterlacing or (way better) make an AviSynth script with no other filter besides the source filter, open it in VDub and check sections with movement.
    Sorry I don't get along with scripts, I got a lot of analog videos to fix using QTGMC but because of that my project is in hold, one of those days when I learn scripting. Any way MediaInfo worked fin after I rendered a file to 1080x1440 24p, It showed all the info as it should. I will see how it prints to tape next.
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  19. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Wow it's weird, The file is not recognized after it's been rendered to HDV 1080 24p by vegas, Here is some info about the rendered file:
    General
    ID : 255 (0xFF)
    Complete name : C:\.......\Untitled.m2t
    Format : MPEG-TS
    Commercial name : HDV 1080p
    File size : 1.13 GiB
    Duration : 6 min 12 s
    Start time : UTC 165-25-45 45:85:85
    End time : UTC 165-25-45 45:85:85
    Overall bit rate mode : Constant
    Overall bit rate : 26.1 Mb/s
    Maximum Overall bit rate : 33.0 Mb/s
    Encoded date : UTC 165-25-45 45:85:85

    Video
    ID : 2064 (0x810)
    Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Commercial name : HDV 1080p
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@High 1440
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Default
    Format settings, GOP : Variable
    Codec ID : 2
    Duration : 6 min 12 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 24.5 Mb/s
    Maximum bit rate : 25.0 Mb/s
    Width : 1 440 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
    Standard : Component
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Scan order : Bottom Field First
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.656
    Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
    Time code source : Group of pictures header
    GOP, Open/Closed : Open
    GOP, Open/Closed of first frame : Closed
    Stream size : 1.06 GiB (93%)
    Color primaries : BT.709
    Transfer characteristics : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients : BT.709

    Audio
    ID : 2068 (0x814)
    Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
    Format : MPEG Audio
    Format version : Version 1
    Format profile : Layer 2
    Codec ID : 3
    Duration : 6 min 12 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 384 kb/s
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Stream size : 17.0 MiB (1%)

    Menu
    ID : 129 (0x81)
    Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
    List : 2068 (0x814) (MPEG Audio) / 2064 (0x810) (MPEG Video) / 2069 (0x815) () / 2065 (0x811) ()
    Last edited by dellsam34; 8th Feb 2017 at 15:20.
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  20. Member dellsam34's Avatar
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    Wow loaded the file again to the time line and tried to record to tape, It wants to render again to 60i or 50i, So vegas is totally doesn't print to tape as 24p it only renders to 24p.
    So I guess I will play around with final cut next.
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