FULL color setting in Handbrake and Vidcoder?

[ConverterCrazy]

What is the setting for FULL color [RGB] setting in Handbrake and Vidcoder?

Thanks.

[hello_hello]

Could I ask why, given Handbrake outputs YV12 and it should always be limited range?

I believe it's fullrange=on for x264 and range=full for x265, but I don't think they have any effect on how the video is encoded.

[JVRaines]

I've tried all the x264 options and nothing works. Handbrake/VidCoder always create studio range SD files that look washed out in my Windows players. The only thing that works for me is FFmpeg with -pix_fmt yuvj420p.

[awgie]

If you use yuvj420 in ffmpeg, it may look the way you like it on your computer screen, but it won't look right on every device.
The full range option in handbrake exists to compensate for source problems (including sources that were encoded with yuvj420), not to change the output type.

A couple threads in the handbrake forum that might help you understand the issue a little better:
https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=35636
https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33111

[JVRaines]

The one thing I have learned is that nothing looks right on every device.

[awgie]

The one thing I have learned is that nothing looks right on every device.

Indeed.

But for maximum compatibility - especially for older TVs and media players - videos need to be encoded with standard YUV (16-235) colour space. If it looks washed out, there are likely other encoder settings that are incorrect. Properly encoded, YUV videos should look perfectly natural - even on your computer screen.

[poisondeathray]

I think he asked for full color (RGB) , not full range YUV

Neither the Handbrake GUI or CLI can do it.

For x264 CLI it's

--input-csp rgb --output-csp rgb

But as mentioned above, you will have problems playing it on common portable devices. It's pretty much limited to computer playback

[hello_hello]

I've tried all the x264 options and nothing works. Handbrake/VidCoder always create studio range SD files that look washed out in my Windows players. The only thing that works for me is FFmpeg with -pix_fmt yuvj420p.

Are you certain it's an encoding issue and not a decoding one?
If your source is full range and Handbrake is encoding it "as is" under the assumption it's limited range, it should end up looking too dark when played back correctly. For the source 0 would be black and 16 would be grey. For the encoded version when converted to limited range 16 is black and 32(ish) is grey., so if full range is encoded without converting the levels, everything from grey down becomes black and the encoded video looks too dark.

On the other hand if Handbrake is converting to limited levels as it should, the limited level video needs to be expanded back to full range for playback on a PC as PC monitors are full range. If it's not expanded on playback, 16 which is black in the encoded version, becomes grey and you have that washed out look. If your source is full range there's no expansion required. I suspect you need to have a chat with your Windows players, or maybe your video card drivers. I prefer to ask the video card to expand the levels as then it doesn't matter too much what the player does (they shouldn't be expanded twice).

When you play the encoded video with something that's not a PC such as a Bluray player or USB media player and view it on your TV, does it still look washed out?

All video card configurations should have an option similar to this:

[ConverterCrazy]

Thank you all for replies.

Full color means 0-255 as shown in Nvidia Control panel>Video Settings as opposed to MediaInfo showing 'Limited'.

These replies at https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=35636 tell a different explanation of FULL range for DVDs/Blurays:

"The Handbrake yuv output must always be 16-235 to play back correctly at full 0-255 range. Bet you didn't know that. That one. Is etched on stone tablets." – by musicvid » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:31 am

and

"… fullrange=on, but if the encoded video is standard YV12 it should be limited range. DVDs/Blurays etc are all limted range." – by yetanotherid » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:33 am (emphasis added)

On @poisondeathray 's suggestion on x264 CLI, I found a kinda guide here https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/341663-How-to-Use-x264-Command-Line.

Once again, thanks.

P.S: Special thanks to you @awgie for this very interesting link https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33111

[poisondeathray]

The nvidia panel isn't related to how a video is encoded.

So you should leave it default in handbrake (normal range YUV, which is Y 16-235, CbCr 16-240; mediainfo should say "limited" - that is correct) , and it will get converted to RGB for display properly if the hardware and settings are setup correctly

[JVRaines]

Are you certain it's an encoding issue and not a decoding one?

If I encode with MainConcept (Vegas), then the levels are correct in VLC and clipped in WMP. If I encode with VidCoder or Handbrake, then the levels are compressed in VLC and correct in WMP. The levels are also compressed after upload to YouTube. So yeah, there is some interaction between encoding and decoding.

[poisondeathray]

There can be variability with how a decoding setup reacts to flags, but normal range YUV will look pretty much the same across everything if the hardware/drivers/software are setup correctly

If there is a difference, then most likely it's an end user setup/configuration issue

YT does react to flags now - it clamps the re-encode of full range input which are properly flagged full range

[ConverterCrazy]

The nvidia panel isn't related to how a video is encoded.

So you should leave it default in handbrake (normal range YUV, which is Y 16-235, CbCr 16-240; mediainfo should say "limited" - that is correct) , and it will get converted to RGB for display properly if the hardware and settings are setup correctly

Thanks.

[JVRaines]

If there is a difference, then most likely it's an end user setup/configuration issue

Your comment and an extra cup of coffee enabled me to solve the VLC problem: I turned off "Use Hardware YUV-->RGB" and the levels are coming out right. Now I have to figure out how to fix QuickTime Player.

[poisondeathray]

What are you seeing in QT player ?

Common issues with non-MOV wrapped formats in QT player (e.g if you open up AVC/MP4) is a rec601 vs rec709 mismatch (slight color shift, most visible in greens and reds)

QT player for windows can be configured to use GDI, and that should match what windows players are showing if your graphics driver settings are setup correctly . edit=>preferences=>qt preferences=> advanced tab => safe mode (GDI) . The problem with this mode is the performance is generally lower than directx acceleration. But you shouldn't be using QT on windows anyways, and it's depreciated / discontinued by Apple

Normal range YUV should be quite close on all platforms/players (maybe very slightly off) ; there are sometimes some mishandling issues (e.g. the rec601 / 709 issues) but there are usually workarounds.

[sophisticles]

If I may throw some fuel to the fire, one should never use Handbrake or it's variants for any serious encoding work; it should be considered a toy, adequate for quick and dirty encodes when one doesn't care about overall quality.

Straight from the Handbrake website:

https://handbrake.fr/news.php?article=37

"High bit depth encoding support via external shared libraries (video pipeline is still 8-bit 4:2:0)"

If you have an 8-bit 4:2:0 source, like a dvd and just want to transcode it because, I don't know, you have nothing better to do, then go ahead and use Handbrake BUT if you have a 10/12/16 bit 4:2:2/4:4:4 source and feed it into Handbrake and choose a high bit depth target, like Intra-12 hevc, it will still step it down to 8 bit 4:2:0 for processing and then the encoder will output a high bit depth encode but since it's already been crapped on what's the point of having the option to encode 10/12 bit Intra only?

[awgie]

If you have an 8-bit 4:2:0 source, like a dvd and just want to transcode it because, I don't know, you have nothing better to do, then go ahead and use Handbrake BUT if you have a 10/12/16 bit 4:2:2/4:4:4 source and feed it into Handbrake and choose a high bit depth target, like Intra-12 hevc, it will still step it down to 8 bit 4:2:0 for processing and then the encoder will output a high bit depth encode but since it's already been crapped on what's the point of having the option to encode 10/12 bit Intra only?

Personally, I don't encode my DVDs because I "have nothing better to do." I do it so I can watch my entire video collection without needing to constantly get up and change discs all the time. It works just fine for that, and doesn't end up looking "quick and dirty". The overall quality actually looks pretty close to the original DVD, even on my 47 inch television, and at a fraction of the file size. (And if I need to encode subtitles in the video, for example in anime videos, I convert them to ASS format before I encode the video, so the subtitles actually end up looking better than they did on the DVD.)

I suspect the option to produce a higher bit output, like HEVC, is there just for some compatibility thing. I've never actually used that setting, since it's really of no use to me.

[sophisticles]

Personally, I don't encode my DVDs because I "have nothing better to do." I do it so I can watch my entire video collection without needing to constantly get up and change discs all the time. It works just fine for that, and doesn't end up looking "quick and dirty". The overall quality actually looks pretty close to the original DVD, even on my 47 inch television, and at a fraction of the file size. (And if I need to encode subtitles in the video, for example in anime videos, I convert them to ASS format before I encode the video, so the subtitles actually end up looking better than they did on the DVD.)

I'm not quite following you, you want to be able to watch your entire "video collection on tv without constantly changing discs all the time", that's what you just said right? Which tells me that you first must rip your entire collection to your hard drive in order to re-encode, correct? Which means that the re-encoding step is unnecessary because your already have them on your computer (which I'm assuming you're hooking up to your tv).

As I said, nothing better to do, one isn't "constantly changing discs all the time", you put a disc into a dvd player, watch the movie, 1.5-2 hours later you're done, even if you were to watch a second movie that's still only 1 disc change in a 3-4 hour period and then you're done.

[awgie]

Which means that the re-encoding step is unnecessary because your already have them on your computer (which I'm assuming you're hooking up to your tv).

There's your first problem... you're assuming.
No, I am not hooking my computer up to my TV. And the media player I have is not capable of playing a ripped DVD as is. It has to be re-encoded.

As I said, nothing better to do, one isn't "constantly changing discs all the time", you put a disc into a dvd player, watch the movie, 1.5-2 hours later you're done, even if you were to watch a second movie that's still only 1 disc change in a 3-4 hour period and then you're done.

When you become disabled and find that it is excruciating pain simply to stand up, walk, bend over, etc., then you come back and talk to me about "nothing better to do". Until then, you just worry about what's important to you, and don't pretend to know what is essential for making my life bearable.

[ConverterCrazy]

@sophisticles

You are a professional, I am just a hobbyist who started this thread as I need to backup movie DVDs (all legal and purchased) in the best quality at smallest possible filesize with original audio, subtitles & chapters – in MKV/MP4 container.

Unfortunately, you have not suggested anything to help me. Your posts are highly technical, and I admit, beyond my ability to comprehend them.
Many respondents have helped me in the past in this forum.

Wish you had suggested something I can use.

[hello_hello]

ConverterCrazy,
If it's DVDs you're converting with Handbrake, then there's either something seriously wrong with your version of Handbrake (which I doubt) or it's a playback issue. DVD video is limited range and should be encoded that way.
A place to start might be to upload a small sample of the source video along with the encoded version so others can see if they display the same way. Or maybe by answering the question I asked earlier. When you play the encoded video with something that's not a PC such as a Bluray player or USB media player and view it on your TV, does it display the way the DVD does on your TV or does it look washed out? You're wanting a fix for a problem that shouldn't exist, at least not when re-encoding DVDs.


sophisticles pops in to post his nonsense every so often. He tends to assume quite a bit.

There can be plenty of benefits to re-encoding, with file size being just one. Hard drive space is never infinite, not matter how expensive or cheap it is. Very few people use a PC as a playback device. mpeg2 support by standalone players is often limited to containers such as ts or m2ts, so you'll be changing containers even if you don't re-encode the video in the process. Nicely cropped video doesn't rely on the display over-scanning to hide the crud. Not everyone uses a 16:9 display, so there's a benefit to cropping any black bars. The average person can benefit from the extra precision of 10 or 12 bit encoding even if they're encoding an 8 bit source, assuming their playback device supports it. (Intra only? Where did that come from?) Not everybody watches video in their living room. My 75yo uncle and aunt go on regular holidays in their camper van. They don't take a pile of discs with them to watch video. They take a few USB sticks. Portable devices such as tablets have more limited video and audio support, they don't have an infinite storage capacity, and the don't have optical drives. It's easier to navigate through a folder full of files to look for particular scenes or episodes than it is to look through a box-set of discs.
Personally, about the only time I put a disc in a drive is to rip and re-encode it, then it sits in a cupboard.

Of course you can always go a step further and process the video with a NLE and filtering (ie Avisynth), which can negate any re-encoding quality loss and sometimes the encoded version can look a little better, although that's all personal taste.

[sophisticles]

When you become disabled and find that it is excruciating pain simply to stand up, walk, bend over, etc., then you come back and talk to me about "nothing better to do". Until then, you just worry about what's important to you, and don't pretend to know what is essential for making my life bearable.

You're so "disabled" that popping in one dvd disc into a dvd player once every 3-4 hours causes "excruciating pain" but this same "disability" doesn't prevent you from popping disc after disc into your computer's optical drive to rip to your hard drive, nor does it prevent you from sitting in front of a computer for hours re-encoding and watching videos?

If just putting a dvd into a dvd player causes that much pain might I suggest that instead of looking into re-encoding dvd's you seek the help of a good physical therapist and a good pain management doctor.

I know about pain, I suffer from multiple ailments related to my spine, not the least of which is scoliosis and stenosis and word to the wise, Ibuprofen is your friend, much better than re-encoding dvd's.

Seriously, your justification is so laughable it just makes me want to, well, laugh.

[awgie]

Seriously, your justification is so laughable it just makes me want to, well, laugh.

Well, then how's this strike you: Stop being an *******.

[awgie]

Oh, and incidentally, I DO have a good physical therapist AND a good pain management doctor. But when you've broken nearly half the bones in your body - some of which will never heal - pain management and therapy only go so far.

As for ibuprofen, no, it is not your friend. Taking it on a regular basis damages your cartilage. Of course, if you had a good doctor, you'd already know that.

[sophisticles]

Seriously, your justification is so laughable it just makes me want to, well, laugh.

Well, then how's this strike you: Stop being an *******.

I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that, the darn word filter censored you, one more time, stop be a what?

[sophisticles]

Oh, and incidentally, I DO have a good physical therapist AND a good pain management doctor. But when you've broken nearly half the bones in your body - some of which will never heal - pain management and therapy only go so far.

As for ibuprofen, no, it is not your friend. Taking it on a regular basis damages your cartilage. Of course, if you had a good doctor, you'd already know that.

If you already have a good physical therapist and a good pain management doctor, might I suggest a good psychiatrist, you seem to have an anger management issue.

One more thing, Ibuprofen damages your cartilage? Would that be more or less than damage than that associated with breaking 103 bones in your body simultaneously? And the broken bones never heal? LOL!

I'm glad you didn't break your funny bone, because man you're a riot.

[ConverterCrazy]

@hello_hello

you were right about him. He has divided number of bones in human by 2.

[awgie]

Seriously, your justification is so laughable it just makes me want to, well, laugh.

Well, then how's this strike you: Stop being an *******.

I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that, the darn word filter censored you, one more time, stop be a what?

Oh, come now. You clearly believe yourself to be hyper-intelligent, so you must have known what I was going to call you even before I knew it myself, so I don't need to spell it out for you.

I don't need a psychiatrist. I only have an anger issue when trying to deal with someone who is an *******. Maybe you could find a shrink who could help you to stop being an *******.

And the broken bones never heal? LOL!

I'll explain it so even you can understand. Some of the bones have been treated with radiation to prevent them from growing back incorrectly - because they already did so once - so the only thing holding them together is titanium plates. Others cannot mend because there are parts of the bones missing, and for the present, it would be counter-productive to attempt an artificial repair.

Now run along and troll somewhere else.

[ConverterCrazy]

ConverterCrazy,
…
Of course you can always go a step further and process the video with a NLE and filtering (ie Avisynth), which can negate any re-encoding quality loss and sometimes the encoded version can look a little better, although that's all personal taste.

Yes. Avisynth is amazing. I was guided by @manono how to go about using Avisynth here https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/363675-How-do-you-make-a-NTSC-interlaced-DVD-video-...00#post2450500 .

I used Avisynth successfully on one Hindi (Indian) movie. The result was amazing. I have fed same Avisynth script for many Hindi movies in VirtualDub. But it was too slow on my hardware, took 2 days or more for one movie.

[sophisticles]

@hello_hello

you were right about him. He has divided number of bones in human by 2.

He said he has broken HALF the bones in his body, if the adult human body has 206 bones then half that would be 103. Did I really need to explain that? Probably not, but now it's done.