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  1. Friends,

    I'm very thankful for as much help and support as I continue to receive on this forum. Many of you repeatedly offer your help on as many video help requests that I ask for. I've been doing a lot of music videos, until now, but now I want to branch out and work on some concert DVDs.

    Using MeGUI + AVISynth, I'm looking for script recommendations. In addition, I'm trying to determine which source to use - the NTSC DVD or PAL DVD.

    Sample Clip:

    NTSC Clip: https://www.sendspace.com/file/8gc9lo

    PAL Clip: https://www.sendspace.com/file/m7pnxo

    I'm still learning how to determine what is going in in video clips by looking at frame-by-frame analysis... It's not clear to me how to determine if something has been "blended" vs. simple interlacing, and or if there's some form/degree of telecine involved, etc. I do feel like I'm learning, a lot, though, so thank you all for your patience and continued help.
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  2. Originally Posted by U2Joshua View Post
    I'm still learning how to determine what is going in in video clips by looking at frame-by-frame analysis... It's not clear to me how to determine if something has been "blended" vs. simple interlacing, and or if there's some form/degree of telecine involved, etc.
    It's often better to separate the fields or bob the video to tell what's really going on. Because I work mostly with screwy sources, my first step is almost always:

    Yadif(Mode=1)

    which will - if you know how to interpret what you're seeing - often tell you all you want or need to know. It's certainly the way to tell the difference between field-blending and simple interlace. With slightly more knowledge it will also tell you if and what kind of telecine might be involved. After you learn how to do all that correctly you won't have to come here and ask every time you begin a new project.
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  3. Thank you, @manono! I tried downloading yadif, but the link on the AVISynth page for the download is not functional, so I went with QTGMC.

    The result for each seemed to be the same: the framerate doubled in both samples, but neither the PAL nor the NTSC resulted in any frame duplication. Both resulted in frames that have some "blending" or "aliasing" (I'm sorry, I don't know the proper terms) - but, basically, where someone's arm is swinging through the picture, it is blurred, and there's a trailing ghosted image either preceding or following the actual arm. What's interesting to me is that the PAL and NTSC are virtually indistinguishable from one another in this sense.

    I don't know what to make of this, at this point. Is it possible that both the PAL and the NTSC are blended adaptations of a 24fps film capture? And, in both cases they interlaced / blended, but did not telecine?

    thanks in advance~
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  4. Originally Posted by U2Joshua View Post
    Is it possible that both the PAL and the NTSC are blended adaptations of a 24fps film capture?
    It's possible. But not all that likely. Yes, there are plenty of garbage NTSC DVDs field-blended from film to 29.97fps, but mostly fly-by-night really cheapo companies do it. Maybe you have a DVD from one such company. Or maybe the NTSC DVD was made from a PAL source and the PAL DVD made from a film source. That happens, too. A sample will tell the tale. PAL DVDs field-blended from film sources are fairly common.

    Let's see, where to get Yadif? I use it for testing because it's fast. When really bobbing, like before using SRestore for removing field-blending, I use a better bobber. I'll just upload Yadif for you:
    Image Attached Files
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  5. Just use a simple Bob() or SeprateFields() and ignore the vertical bounce. Unlike Yadif(), Bob() and SeparateFields() will never mix pixels from the two fields.

    Both those sources suck!
    Last edited by jagabo; 14th Jan 2017 at 08:38.
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  6. Originally Posted by manono View Post
    Originally Posted by U2Joshua View Post
    Is it possible that both the PAL and the NTSC are blended adaptations of a 24fps film capture?
    It's possible. But not all that likely. Yes, there are plenty of garbage NTSC DVDs field-blended from film to 29.97fps, but mostly fly-by-night really cheapo companies do it. Maybe you have a DVD from one such company. Or maybe the NTSC DVD was made from a PAL source and the PAL DVD made from a film source. That happens, too. A sample will tell the tale. PAL DVDs field-blended from film sources are fairly common.

    Let's see, where to get Yadif? I use it for testing because it's fast. When really bobbing, like before using SRestore for removing field-blending, I use a better bobber. I'll just upload Yadif for you:
    Thanks, @manono. ...not sure why, but I still can't get Yadif to work
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  7. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Just use a simple Bob() or SeprateFields() and ignore the vertical bounce. Unlike Yadif(), Bob() and SeparateFields() will never mix pixels from the two fields.

    Both those sources suck!
    Hahaha... Thanks, @jagabo. I'm glad to hear you say it... And this is not some cheap bootleg, or anything, but these are the commercially released, best-selling home video DVD versions of one of the biggest concerts in history. Millions of copies sold.

    That said, I've Bobbed and used SeparateFields, and I still don't know what to make of it. I definitely still see "blending?" Or, "aliasing?" Not sure which - perhaps, they mean the same thing, roughly?

    I've tried TFM() + Srestore() - that didn't seem to do anything.

    I've tried QTGMC() + Srestore() and that gives a jerky playback.

    I've tried tinkering around with Santiag, and that didn't seem to do anything...

    thoughts?
    Last edited by U2Joshua; 14th Jan 2017 at 10:52.
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  8. Originally Posted by U2Joshua View Post
    Thanks, @manono. ...not sure why, but I still can't get Yadif to work
    You have to load it in the script and you have to use either Load_Stdcall_plugin or LoadCplugin, as it says in the included doc:

    Implemented as Avisynth C-plugin (not regular Avisynth plugin).
    Must be loaded with Load_Stdcall_plugin("yadif.dll") or LoadCplugin("yadif.dll") (not LoadPlugin !). Do not use autoloading. (Note: in Avisynth v2.5.7 there is no need in explicit loading of Avisynth_c.dll by user for such plugins.)
    I do it like this:

    LoadCPlugin("D:\AviSynth Stuff\Dlls\Yadif.dll")
    .
    .
    Yadif(Mode=1)
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  9. I load Yadif automatically using an AVSI file in AviSynth's plugins folder. This way it's always available in any AviSynth script. Create Yadif.avsi in the plugins folder and paste this text into it:

    Code:
    Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth\plugins\yadif.dll")
    Adjust the path for where AviSynth is installed in your system.
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  10. It's a mess. It's not standard field blending and all that ghosting may have been done on purpose. In any event, forget about undoing it.

    Since the NTSC version was made from a PAL source, I'd stick with the PAL source for further work. Either leave it interlaced or just do a:

    QTGMC()###for 50fps
    or
    QTGMC().SelectEven()###for 25fps

    if it has to be made progressive.
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  11. I think the PAL source and QTGMC() would be best. The biggest problem with the PAL version (aside from all the blended fields, which yo won't be able to fix) is the dot crawl artifacts. With VHS sources, because of the low resolution of VHS, I usually recommend Spline36Resize(width/2, height).Spline36Resize(width,height). But this source is sharp enough that that causes noticeable blurring. I came up with this:

    Code:
    Mpeg2Source("ZOOTV-PAL-clip2.d2v", CPU2="ooooxx", Info=3) 
    
    SeparateFields()
    mask = ConvertToRGB().GeneralConvolution(matrix="-1 0 -1  0 4 0  -1 0 -1").ConvertToYV12().mt_binarize(30).mt_expand().mt_inpand().GreyScale().Blur(1.0)
    blur = Spline36Resize(width/2,height).Spline36Resize(width,height)
    Overlay(last, blur, mask=mask)
    Weave()
    
    QTGMC(preset="fast", EZDenoise=1.0, DenoiseMC=true)
    That reduces a lot of the dot crawl without hurting too many sharp edges.
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  12. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I think the PAL source and QTGMC() would be best. The biggest problem with the PAL version (aside from all the blended fields, which yo won't be able to fix) is the dot crawl artifacts. With VHS sources, because of the low resolution of VHS, I usually recommend Spline36Resize(width/2, height).Spline36Resize(width,height). But this source is sharp enough that that causes noticeable blurring. I came up with this:

    Code:
    Mpeg2Source("ZOOTV-PAL-clip2.d2v", CPU2="ooooxx", Info=3) 
    
    SeparateFields()
    mask = ConvertToRGB().GeneralConvolution(matrix="-1 0 -1  0 4 0  -1 0 -1").ConvertToYV12().mt_binarize(30).mt_expand().mt_inpand().GreyScale().Blur(1.0)
    blur = Spline36Resize(width/2,height).Spline36Resize(width,height)
    Overlay(last, blur, mask=mask)
    Weave()
    
    QTGMC(preset="fast", EZDenoise=1.0, DenoiseMC=true)
    That reduces a lot of the dot crawl without hurting too many sharp edges.

    Thanks, @jagobo! Looking at this, I can only imagine is something someone with years of experience would understand and know how to come up with. Do you know why I would be getting an error with the inclusion of "EZdenoise=1.0"? When I run your script in it's entirety I get an error. When I remove Ezdenoise=1.0 it runs.

    What am I missing by not including it? What might I try in order to not get the error?

    I'll post the error later if that will help.

    Thanks!
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  13. Originally Posted by U2Joshua View Post
    Do you know why I would be getting an error with the inclusion of "EZdenoise=1.0"?
    Do you get an error message? You may be missing FFT3DFilter or dfttest. Maybe you don't have FFTW3.dll in your System32 or SysWOW64 folder.

    EZDenoise is just used for a little noise reduction. You can live without it.
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  14. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by U2Joshua View Post
    Do you know why I would be getting an error with the inclusion of "EZdenoise=1.0"?
    Do you get an error message? You may be missing FFT3DFilter or dfttest. Maybe you don't have FFTW3.dll in your System32 or SysWOW64 folder.

    EZDenoise is just used for a little noise reduction. You can live without it.

    Yes! That's the one. Thanks, very much...


    I've got an even more interesting video I'm working on next that looks like the original source was 20fps?
    I'll upload later😊
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  15. @jagobo,

    If I want to add resize and crop, is there anything wrong with me adding them at the end, like this?

    SeparateFields()
    mask = ConvertToRGB().GeneralConvolution(matrix="-1 0 -1 0 4 0 -1 0 -1").ConvertToYV12().mt_binarize(30).mt_expand().mt _inpand().GreyScale().Blur(1.0)
    blur = Spline36Resize(width/2,height).Spline36Resize(width,height)
    Overlay(last, blur, mask=mask)
    Weave()
    QTGMC(preset="fast", EZDenoise=1.0, DenoiseMC=true)
    spline36resize(768,576)
    crop(10, 0, -16, 0)


    thanks! ...just not sure of the implications of adding those to your (complex) script - and, whether I should reorder it/them...

    p.s. ...thanks to you, I got EZDenoise working... had to add the fftw3.dll to the SysWOW64 folder.
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  16. You can do that if you want but it leaves a mod2 width. I highly recommend a mod4 width, at least.
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  17. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    You can do that if you want but it leaves a mod2 width. I highly recommend a mod4 width, at least.
    Okay.... so change my crop setting to one that retains a divisibility by 4?
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  18. Yes, a value where dividing by 4 gives you an integer result. So not 742 but rather 740 (mod4) or even better 744 (mod8)
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