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  1. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    HB being Handbrake;
    I'm trying to mimic hb settings, so i have this param list that i would like to use in vdub, which are being fussy.

    Can someone speculate, or know if there's a version for VFW that might work so i can get these options run, on vdub x264vfw compression? Since i love vdub so much, i feel i have an understanding enough to help make that contribution to those who try to keep vdub at its best tune. So im trying to figure this out.

    What IS working in vdub
    Code:
    --me umh --ref 5 --subme 8
    Whats not working in vdub x264vfw
    Code:
    --b_adapt 2
    --direct 3 
    --rc_lookahead 50
    And ones that may not be compatible yet, but would like to use also
    Code:
    --cplxblur 20.0 
    --qblur 0.5 
    --vbv_maxrate 62500 
    --vbv_bufsize 78125 
    --nal_hrd none 
    --filler 0
    It wont encode on profile 'high' either, so im having to set that to auto. (notice the settings, especially the "Extra command line (for advanced users)" input box on the bottom.

    Click image for larger version

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  2. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    Can some one please rename the title was going to correct it, preferably before its spidered a million times, cant.
    new title
    "x264VFW - encode using vdub to mimic HB settings" my bad.
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 21st Dec 2016 at 19:06.
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  3. x264 parameters don't use the underscore

    for example it should be --b-adapt 2 instead of --b_adapt 2

    But that doesn't do anything extra because the --preset veryslow already implies --b-adapt 2, same with --direct auto , but --rc-lookahead is 60 for veryslow , so if you changed it to 50 that would deviate from the preset

    komisar's x264vfw gui has more checkboxes, but it's not updated as often
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  4. Originally Posted by wolfdogg View Post
    Since i love vdub so much
    Encoding avi with H.264 might not work later on, who knows, avi is not a dedicated container for H.264 video.

    1.You can use external encoder for VirtualDub: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/367446-Virtualdub-External-Encoder-feature.

    2.And also VirtualDub has frame server, it exports virtual avi , that you can encode loading it into Avisynth , not sure if directly into any vfw encoder. It is not straight forward, but you should know about this.
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  5. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    Thanks, you know, i am seriously disgusted with the quality output, geese. AVI container, yes this makes the difference. Im convinced that its all the structure data thats on the stream in mp4 that holds the higher quality ability. When i encode using whats available in vdub and x264vfw its really really shoddy. However, i was not able to get those settings to work, i will try a re-encode to see what i came up with using all the params, MUCH THANKS for that, didnt realize that was the problem at all, i looked to the double hyphen, and everything else, lol.

    Kind thanks to the idea to the external encoder, i did come up with that same idea yesterday, after my results, thanks for the link, it will probably be more helpful than what i found from a quick search. it was kind of a learning curve at first, and i was too focused on getting a clean encode out of Handbrake for comparison. I cant believe it took a matter of a couple days to become a virtualdub/avi/xvid to handbrake/avc convert. amazing. I think im going mp4 from here out. I will definitely be looking into this external encoder, including how i can leverage avisynth for that. I have yet to use avi-synth yet, just cant get it bootstrapped yet.

    By the way, they are going to need to override it, because those are the exact params HB is encoding with, to which i want to mimic. ;-p

    what about all the settings that dont work, like qblur, cplxblur, filler, nal-hard, direct, how will i be able to use those? maybe i can after i get the other settings to work now? or are they not supported in the vfw, or called something else? you know what? ill think ill look at your url resource, havent seen that yet, and i know you mentioned that, ill look there next.
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 21st Dec 2016 at 18:15.
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  6. I cannot imagine , for example using same settings, getting different result between x264vfw and x264. Handbrake uses latest x264 version, x264vfw maybe not, but nothing to give you a huge difference.

    What I meant was possible future problems during playback using all kind of devices besides PC or editing, not quality problem.
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  7. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    well i think the difficulty is to get all the settings to work, for example, right now its saying '--direct=3' is not a valid parameter , when im passing it in like this '--direct 3'

    I just updated to the Komisars fix, not seeing any difference on the gui, was hoping to see some more checkmarks, all the same, might have had latest version already or something. unless im missing something.

    Not knowing which vob HB is pulling from, i cant get a correct comparison yet, but yeah, im narrowing it down, if i can get most of these setting to work, however, its the AVI container. Your saying you believe the avi (using vdub) contain, and mp4 container (using hb) should contain same quality pixel if both were encoded the same? thats what im trying to find out.

    params in vdub
    Code:
    --me umh --ref 5 --subme 8 --b-adapt 2 --direct 3 --rc-lookahead 50
    error vdub gives me this time, after komisars fix, BECAUSE of using the --direct 3 switch. so it breaks before and after the fix, i think the error message just is more cryptic now. But i have seen this one too, with wrong params. like it doesnt know what to do with them. wheres the master list for these? i think ill refer to the man site for x264 on that and see if i can dig some more.

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  8. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    ok man site says this
    Code:
           --direct <string>
                  Direct MV prediction mode ["spatial"] - none, spatial, temporal,
                  auto
    but HB uses this
    Code:
    --direct 3
    is 3 maybne temporal? maybe i shoudl try with
    Code:
    --direct temporal
    on vduvb? or maybe auto, maybe 0 is none, or maybe 1 is none, gosh anybody know? ill try temporal, but auto you mentioned might be useless.

    Might anybody know what HB x264 encoding uses by default though, i.e. what the 3 is? Or were you saying that indeed is auto.

    by the way, the reason all these params are specified in HB, is because i think it uses the cli, so whatever is in the gui, doesnt matter to me then, its these params i want to make sure that pass mainly, especially if they override anything in the gui, because thats what HB is doing.

    Edit: Well, vdub does NOT complain about `--direct temporal` it does encode on that setting, atleast it doesnt crash, so i think if i follow out the conversions using the man, i might be able to feed all those settings into the vdub vfw, and ill post that string here when i get it. But i will would like to know if anybody knows if temporal is 3.. heres one man page http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/man1/x264.1.html
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 21st Dec 2016 at 19:12.
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  9. I posted screeeshots of komisars vfw GUI in other threads, there are 3 pages/tabs. It's very old (2013) based on older x264 versions , so you might not want to use it. If you are using vdub 32bit, you need x264vfw 32bit. But it definitely works in vdub

    The "master list" is x264 CLI , you can use x264 --fullhelp 1>fullhelp.txt to print a text file of all the switches. There isn't a verbose explanation there, just a list, but the x264 mewiki has a short explanation of what some of them do

    Handbrake is based on a modified x264 library. But switches for CLI applications usually go 0,1,2,3...etc... as short form. So in that example, "3" corresponds to "auto" , which means x264 can choose what is better for that scenario. It can pick and choose, swap back and forth in different sections. It's usually smarter at choosing than you or me. If you "force" it to use spatial or temporal , then almost always there will be some parts that are less efficiently encoded (ie lower quality). Note all the slower presets beyond "medium" use "--direct auto" - so that should already be a big hint as to what yields higher compression /better quality.

    I didn't say --direct auto was "useless" , I said when you use --preset veryslow, it's redundant because it's already already stipulated. When you enter commandline options you only need to enter values that deviate from the selected preset

    x264vfw in the commandline box uses the same syntax as x264cli , not necessarily handbrake's modified syntax. To get the correct syntax look at the fullhelp . That is why --direct auto would work (or none, spatial, temporal , which correspond to 0,1,2) , but not --direct 3 , which would be handbrake only
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  10. --cplxblur 20.0
    --qblur 0.5
    --nal_hrd none
    --filler 0
    Those are already default settings, so you don't need to specify them

    --vbv_maxrate 62500
    --vbv_bufsize 78125
    This can only decrease quality, never increase. Specifying a buffer and maxrate is only for device or target compatibility . Think of it as placing limitatons on what x264 can do; but those values are high , so your encodes were SD only a few Mb/s , then it would be very unlikely that those values would negatively impact either




    A more important question is what is wrong with your vdub encode specifically ? what does "really really shoddy" mean ?? If you use similar settings, similar x264 versions (doesn't have to be the exact same, it won't make a difference if the build is within a few months of each other) , quality should be similar. More likely there is some user error or something else going on , or some difference in processing. For example in one of your other posts the mediainfo report said one encode was RGB , you probably forgot to set video=>fast recompress for vdub and had "keep input colorspace" on . Or in handbrake maybe you were applying other filters that you weren't in vdub etc...
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  11. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    its shoddy meaning its coming out piss poor, and way different, wayyy.. ill see if i can grab the mediainfo for them, to help see what i may be doing wrong then. Thats super helpful on the settings breakdown, thats something i was hoping to do next, was just learn about them, but first i wanted to try to mimic them, to see whats going on.

    Ok, heres the video i recently encoded in vdub, with some of the same settings, adding a deinterlace first, then a lancsis reize 2nd, @CRF21.7.
    Code:
    General
    Complete name                            : D:\dusers\Wolfdogg\Videos\processing\vobs\Flipper (1963) DVD5\VTS_01_1-CFR21.7-dlcd-lnczs-rsz.avi
    Format                                   : AVI
    Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
    File size                                : 928 MiB
    Duration                                 : 25 min 56 s
    Overall bit rate                         : 5 003 kb/s
    Writing library                          : VirtualDub build 35491/release
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 0
    Format                                   : x264
    Codec ID                                 : x264
    Duration                                 : 25 min 56 s
    Bit rate                                 : 4 801 kb/s
    Width                                    : 704 pixels
    Height                                   : 396 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.689
    Stream size                              : 891 MiB (96%)
    notice the bit rate? its much higher than the aimed for 1900kbps. However, would you like to know that this is the shoddy one? it looks wayyy worse than the 1900kbps HB one. i think this was my 2nd full test on this, days after trying some other settings (closer to vdubs best, with no extra params) and had same bad results. Ill have to get a screen compare for of the output video.

    heres the fill string from probably the latest i want to try in vdub(maybe adjusting the crf), and removing the ones that arent vdub compatbile, or already vdub default.
    Code:
    Encoding settings     
    cabac=1 / 
    ref=16 / 
    deblock=1:-1:-1 / 
    analyse=0x3:0x133 /
     me=umh / 
    subme=10 / 
    psy=1 /
     psy_rd=1.00:0.15 /
     mixed_ref=1 / 
    me_range=24 /
     chroma_me=1 / 
    trellis=2 / 
    8x8dct=1 / 
    cqm=0 / 
    deadzone=21,11 /
    fast_pskip=1 / 
    chroma_qp_offset=-3 /
    threads=6 / 
    lookahead_threads=1 / 
    sliced_threads=0 /
    nr=0 / decimate=1 /
    interlaced=0 /
    bluray_compat=0 / 
    constrained_intra=0 /
    bframes=8 / 
    b_pyramid=2 / 
    b_adapt=2 / 
    b_bias=0 /
    direct=3 / 
    weightb=1 / 
    open_gop=0 / 
    weightp=2 / 
    keyint=250 / 
    keyint_min=25 / 
    scenecut=40 /
    intra_refresh=0 /
    rc_lookahead=60 / 
    rc=crf / mbtree=1 /
    crf=22.0 / 
    qcomp=0.60 / 
    qpmin=0 / 
    qpmax=69 / 
    qpstep=4 / 
    vbv_maxrate=62500 / 
    vbv_bufsize=78125 /
    crf_max=0.0 /
    nal_hrd=none / 
    filler=0 / 
    ip_ratio=1.40 /
    aq=1:1.00
    They should look familiar (direct=3, vbv_maxrate=62500, etc..).


    In order to get the settings in the OP, i made a compatibility chart, and was left with the few i mentioned there, that needed to be passed, as the main differeing vdub/HB params, to get them comparable. Honestly, i thought the vfw just lacked the settings, and they had to be passed in, to achieve the quality that HB has already taken the time to figure out. I mean isnt that what were dealing with here, a vfw that isnt fully developed? or do you think regardless they should still be coming out atleast close?

    screen coming..
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 22nd Dec 2016 at 03:43.
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  12. They should be close or fully identical (if identical x264 library version). The problem is not with x264vfw.

    Originally Posted by wolfdogg View Post
    it looks wayyy worse than the 1900kbps HB one.
    Worse how? Are you using the same source? Same kind of filtering? Show us. Upload samples, make screenshots.
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  13. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    ok heres the compares, from same bitrate
    Image
    [Attachment 40002 - Click to enlarge]

    Image
    [Attachment 40003 - Click to enlarge]

    Code:
    VTS_01_1-CFR27-unsharp-dilc-lnczs-rsz.avi
    Format                                   : AVI
    Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
    File size                                : 411 MiB
    Duration                                 : 25 min 56 s
    Overall bit rate                         : 2 215 kb/s
    Writing library                          : VirtualDub build 35491/release
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 0
    Format                                   : x264
    Codec ID                                 : x264
    Duration                                 : 25 min 56 s
    Bit rate                                 : 2 013 kb/s
    Width                                    : 704 pixels
    Height                                   : 396 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.289
    Stream size                              : 374 MiB (91%)
    Code:
    Flipper (1963).mp4
    Format                                   : MPEG-4
    Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
    Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
    File size                                : 1.27 GiB
    Duration                                 : 1 h 26 min
    Overall bit rate                         : 2 096 kb/s
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2016-12-17 13:17:46
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2016-12-17 13:17:46
    Writing application                      : HandBrake 0.10.5 2016021100
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : AVC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile                           : High@L4.1
    Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames                : 8 frames
    Codec ID                                 : avc1
    Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration                                 : 1 h 26 min
    Bit rate                                 : 1 900 kb/s
    Width                                    : 720 pixels
    Height                                   : 592 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate mode                          : Constant
    Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.178
    Stream size                              : 1.15 GiB (91%)
    Writing library                          : x264 core 142 r2479 dd79a61
    Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=8 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=1900 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=62500 / vbv_bufsize=78125 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2016-12-17 13:17:46
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2016-12-17 13:17:46
    Color range                              : Limited
    Color primaries                          : BT.601 PAL
    Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601
    Menus                                    : 3

    i guess this isnt the best example, because the mp4 was 2 pass, and the resize. man thought this was the one. I had another, thats gone, i can do another, but preferably this time all params intact first. I think the thing that struck me here, is look at the bit rate on the avi, why cant it keep up there with picture quality?
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 22nd Dec 2016 at 04:05.
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  14. 1. Maybe different filter, esp. deinterlacing
    2. Not the same cut (26m vs 1h26m)
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  15. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    oh your right about the cut, thats true, on that one, i let HB run them altogether and make one file out of it i think. so maybe it made better encoding? i cant merge them as vobs in dub, have to do them one at a time. You have a great point though. I will definitely have to get more scientific than this, if im going to share that here. So yeah, lets figure out the params, then ill run it again on vdub tonight. So, ill make a full list here once again then, then run a crf27 on both vdub and hb tonight. i use deinterlace bob, interpolate, and hb supposedly used lcsz by default, and im sure it does it after the deinterlace, so i think im getting same result there mostly, or should be atleast, shedding light on the differences. I think i will actually run it with no deinterlace. and a resize to squarepixel off the top, no enhancements obviously.
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  16. Resizing without prior deinterlacing will destroy the picture if the content is interlaced.

    I just now also see: the HB encode has 50% more vertical resolution.
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  17. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    hmm, was hoping to maintain the sharpness, i guess i forgot about that, since im trying to avoid deinterlace as a newer process to my skillset.

    so ill have to see what you mean, how that affects the encode there about having more vertical res. Also, i got it to take these params so far in vub exactly as is,
    Code:
    --me umh --ref 16  --subme 10 --b-adapt 2 --direct auto --rc-lookahead 50 --cplxblur 20.0 --qblur 0.5  --vbv-maxrate 62500 --vbv-bufsize 78125 --nal-hrd none  --filler 0 --cplxblur 20.0 --qblur 0.5
    What others can i make and and bring in from the last fill string paste above?

    not sure why, but im getting a 64MB/s file, wanted to be 10GB, using these settings, on a 1gb vob file.
    Click image for larger version

Name:	highbit.JPG
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ID:	40004 Its like its sticking with the max all the way, how did HB encode using this vbv-mate rate i wonder. maybe i need to just work out all those settings, to see if i can pass them all, some might depend on others, and i know i cant just leave half them out. this isnt easy.
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 22nd Dec 2016 at 04:51.
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  18. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    Well,
    so aside from what i was trying to figure out just above (the params to mimic), here below is the comparison tests i ran last night, that i mentioned i would do.

    Vdub is off the mark, but in size this time, to the high size in fact. So thats different, i didnt expect that.

    This is from the default virtualdub x264vfw with the default settings

    Click image for larger version

Name:	default crf25.JPG
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Size:	72.2 KB
ID:	40025

    Name:  vdub filters hb comparison.JPG
Views: 370
Size:  24.5 KB

    Code:
    General
    Complete name                            : D:\dusers\Wolfdogg\Videos\processing\vobs\NASA When we left the earth\NASA-VTS_01_1-CFR25-lnczs-rsz-default-noparams-compare3.avi
    Format                                   : AVI
    Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
    File size                                : 428 MiB
    Duration                                 : 23 min 43 s
    Overall bit rate                         : 2 523 kb/s
    Writing library                          : VirtualDub build 35491/release
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 0
    Format                                   : x264
    Codec ID                                 : x264
    Duration                                 : 23 min 43 s
    Bit rate                                 : 2 290 kb/s
    Width                                    : 720 pixels
    Height                                   : 404 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.315
    Stream size                              : 388 MiB (91%)
    
    Audio
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : AC-3
    Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
    Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
    Format settings, Endianness              : Big
    Codec ID                                 : 2000
    Duration                                 : 23 min 42 s
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Bit rate                                 : 224 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
    Channel positions                        : Front: L R
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
    Bit depth                                : 16 bits
    Compression mode                         : Lossy
    Stream size                              : 38.0 MiB (9%)
    Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
    Interleave, duration                     : 40  ms (1.00 video frame)
    Interleave, preload duration             : 512  ms
    Then the same equivalent in handbrake

    Click image for larger version

Name:	hbcompare1.JPG
Views:	33
Size:	58.2 KB
ID:	40029

    Name:  hbcompare2.JPG
Views: 316
Size:  18.3 KB

    Click image for larger version

Name:	hmcompare3.JPG
Views:	40
Size:	33.2 KB
ID:	40027


    Code:
    General
    Complete name                            : D:\dusers\Wolfdogg\Videos\processing\vobs\NASA When we left the earth\NASA3-VTS_03_1-CFR25-debob-squarepixel-filmtuned-autoprofile-compare.mp4
    Format                                   : MPEG-4
    Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
    Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
    File size                                : 137 MiB
    Duration                                 : 24 min 4 s
    Overall bit rate                         : 793 kb/s
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2016-12-23 09:20:43
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2016-12-23 09:20:43
    Writing application                      : HandBrake 0.10.5 2016021100
    
    Video
    ID                                       : 1
    Format                                   : AVC
    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile                           : High@L4.1
    Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames                : 16 frames
    Codec ID                                 : avc1
    Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration                                 : 24 min 4 s
    Bit rate                                 : 565 kb/s
    Width                                    : 720 pixels
    Height                                   : 404 pixels
    Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
    Frame rate mode                          : Constant
    Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
    Color space                              : YUV
    Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                                : 8 bits
    Scan type                                : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.078
    Stream size                              : 97.3 MiB (71%)
    Writing library                          : x264 core 142 r2479 dd79a61
    Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=16 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-3 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=8 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=25.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=62500 / vbv_bufsize=78125 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2016-12-23 09:20:43
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2016-12-23 09:20:43
    Color range                              : Limited
    Color primaries                          : BT.601 PAL
    Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
    Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601
    
    Audio
    ID                                       : 2
    Format                                   : AC-3
    Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
    Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
    Format settings, Endianness              : Big
    Codec ID                                 : ac-3
    Duration                                 : 24 min 4 s
    Bit rate mode                            : Constant
    Bit rate                                 : 224 kb/s
    Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
    Channel positions                        : Front: L R
    Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
    Bit depth                                : 16 bits
    Compression mode                         : Lossy
    Stream size                              : 38.6 MiB (28%)
    Title                                    : Stereo / Stereo
    Default                                  : Yes
    Alternate group                          : 1
    Encoded date                             : UTC 2016-12-23 09:20:43
    Tagged date                              : UTC 2016-12-23 09:20:43
    Note, i wanted to use profile high, but VDUB just WONT let me select that option, it complains, compression error. i might have to try different version, im still using that special one i tried from linked here on the boards. (so i used prof-auto)

    I'll grab some quality comparisons hopefully later

    We can see there's a HUGE difference in the way the AVI comes out, for what reason though? Did i make a mistake?

    How can i fine-tune this to get a correct comparison, or is this it? I.E. should i set the crf down in vdub until it yields the same average bit rate as HB? thats like 5 times less though, i know that will blow out the quality completely. What if i bump up the CRF on the HB side, to get it to match the VDUB side, i already did those tests and that answer is CRF21, this file
    Code:
    1-1-crf21-2223kbps.mp4
    came out to that similar bitrate. its 844MB in size,

    What is the proper colorspace setting in HB, that i should use? did i that right?
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 23rd Dec 2016 at 19:01.
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  19. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    maybe i should use crf21 in HB, and crf25 in vdub, and assume for whatever difference they have, as long as they end up with same average bit rate, that maybe that will correct it. i might try that. im very open to suggestions, i just want to MIMIC HB settings in vdub, and get a clean duplicate encode, so i trust VDUB again using h264, or its going in the trash bin.(well except for capturing vhs to encode that is, i have figured how to keep it in sync finally, lol)


    EDIT: Hang On
    somehow i got the vob from the wrong set(you will notice the length difference, one is nasa 3-3_1, the other is nasa1-3_1, oops), redoing the HB one with the one that was used in the VDUB, ill update the post results on THAT POST when i finish it, probably tomorrow evening. ANy comments so far much welcome, this is alot to try to figure out. thanks for the help so far.

    by the way, im BLOWN AWAY at this 139MB encode, cant believe it came up with something nice, out of that 1GB vob, BRAVO x264 and HB!

    Heres some cool findings on them too, debob does look better than the slower deinterlace, to me atleast, these are both HB encodes, identical settings, i thought slower would be better, so i used that, the debob was just for the vdub compare, but yeah, go debob.

    First the source shot
    Click image for larger version

Name:	source shot.JPG
Views:	52
Size:	39.4 KB
ID:	40032
    then the compressed
    Click image for larger version

Name:	debob better than slower.JPG
Views:	42
Size:	99.2 KB
ID:	40031

    those are 139MB for 24 minutes. nice :-p
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 23rd Dec 2016 at 04:27.
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  20. Originally Posted by wolfdogg View Post
    Note, i wanted to use profile high, but VDUB just WONT let me select that option, it complains, compression error.
    Are you getting something like this?
    Code:
    x264vfw [error]: x264_param_apply_profile failed
    Note it is not vdub`s complaint but x264`s. Simply means some options are incompatible with each other.

    Btw, you have selected "keep input colorspace/format", so do you have an idea what it is, maybe yuv 4:4:4? Try selecting "accept only yuv 4:2:0".
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  21. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    It was actually the vdub "Compression Error" some code 'maybe', but i see it when error's are generic, leaving no way to backtrace, atleast that i can see. If it has a code, ill definitely get it. ill check here in a bit.

    yeah, my source is 4:2:0, i just wanted to make sure for some ungodly reason that it was supposed to be rgb for final, or something. thats actually what i had it at first("accept only yuv 4:2:0"), thanks for the tip.

    Lastnight's compare encodes are done too, ill get the results here in a bit.

    Edit: your awesome @shekh, so yeah, on one screen i see the VirtualDub Error, "Cannot start video compression: Unknown error occured (may be corrupt data) error code is "-100" yep, there was an error code there, i know this one as pretty generic. And NOW< low and behold, on the other monitor i DO SEE what your saying, "x264vfw log" and sure enough, it does say "param_apply_profile_failed" .

    Ok, so the options im selecting then are maybe incompatible? Yes, i have seen this exact error before using wierd options, however this time i want these settings, what option might be throwing it off? see the screenshot, its everything you see above, except the prof is not auto, its "high", then the error. do you see any other settings that might need to be tweaked, or params i can pass to get these settings in? Im trying to mimic, thats the settings that seemed to worked best in HB, and cant understand why "high" wont work with what seems to be basic settings.

    Good call!
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 23rd Dec 2016 at 18:34.
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  22. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    So this is the error when i tried to switch the prof back to auto, but this time the only difference, i switched colorspace output to Keep/Accept only yuv 4:2:0.
    "unable to initialize video compression.. check video codec is compatible with the output video frame size, and that the settings are correct, or try a different one" thats the one i would normally expect with incorrect settings. So the other one was profile specific, i think i get it now. So i need to know more about high profile then, to see whats its requirements are. Ill look into that. interesting.

    I just also tried the Level Auto, and Tuning none, same error (the latter one), so thats not it. Then switching that to output rgb, i get back to the initial error, as if the rgb colorsace will work with whatever broke the frame size compatibility. So it just doesnt like prof high.

    Theres been one question i haven't asked all along, and been meaning to. Which FourCC in vdub? i have many choiced, X264, x264, h264, H264, AVC1, avc1, VSSH
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 23rd Dec 2016 at 18:43.
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  23. I dont know much about x264 settings, I just saw by experiment that error disappears when input changed from 4:4:4 yuv to 4:2:0 yuv.
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  24. check video codec is compatible with the output video frame size
    This means vdub is sending something else other than yuv 420, double check your "output format to encoder" option
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  25. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    Ok, in vdub, profile HIGH works when i set it to "Convert" to "yuv 4:2:0".

    The Post above has been updated, for the mediainfo for the virtualdub avi file, using the same source this time, to compare to handbrake, as close as i can get the compare using prof auto, That comparison is now valid. It turns out the file came out exactly the same size, even though the video durations difered by a few seconds, and different content. is that possible? I guess thats what crf does.

    So, with all this, im finding that something is wrong with my settings, if anybody sees, or virtual dub does its best with the codec, placing video data onto an video stream, however is it possible that encoding to mpeg4 container adding all the bvops, gops, b frames, and extra goodies on the stream is what allows to hold the extra quality, or how can they be encoding so different? Obviously if this is real, then the HB is atleast 2 or 3 times more efficient, and and higher quality at a much lower bit rate.

    Should i try to re-encode on handbrake until i get the average bitrate equivalent of the vdub file(2290kbps) to make this more equivalent?

    Originally Posted by shekh View Post
    check video codec is compatible with the output video frame size
    This means vdub is sending something else other than yuv 420, double check your "output format to encoder" option
    Output "format"? output mode is VFW of File, and theres the FourCC, and the vdub Hack, are you referring to that output, or the colorspace?

    I just checked the colorspace of the vob file, this is what it says
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    But the hover info talks about subsampling format (not memory layout), ill take it thats the part i dont understand, and use "Convert to YUV 4:2:0" when i have this problem.
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 23rd Dec 2016 at 21:04.
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  26. Member
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    Originally Posted by wolfdogg View Post
    Can some one please rename the title was going to correct it, preferably before its spidered a million times, cant.
    new title
    "x264VFW - encode using vdub to mimic HB settings" my bad.
    If you still want to correct the title of this thread, you can do that yourself. Go to your initial post in the thread. Click "Edit", then click the "Go Advanced' button. You should be able to edit the title.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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  27. Why is this so hard for you? Just use MediaInfo to see what settings handbrake used. Then set up x264vfw the same way. For example, using the Normal preset in Handbrake with the veryfast preset of x264 showed these settings:

    Code:
    cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=20000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
    Using just the veryfast preset in x264vfw and VirtualDub gave an 80 percent larger file with these settings:

    Code:
    cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
    The settings that at are causing the size difference are the vbv maxrate and bufsize settings. So add these to the extra settings in x264vfw:

    Code:
    --vbv-maxrate 20000 --vbv-bufsize 25000
    You'll get file of the same size and the same quality.
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  28. Member wolfdogg's Avatar
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    It's hard for me because for each setting, i have to try to make a new save attempt, and to understand the error, adding any new settings pretty much break it, so if i tried all those it breaks, i have to add one at a time, its time consuming. I like how you broke it down there in the first two ill use that for reference, but note no underscores right? Vdub just doesnt like some of those, at all, no matter the options, it just doesn't support them. Then to complicate, the CRF's are off for some reason, maybe you can see why?

    Working on the test results momentarily, i found that i was indeed encoding the wrong file in vdub, i went with nasa3_1 shuttle, because it has some cleaner earth shots in it.

    I have them both encoding at the same time currently, on this XMAS EVE, vdub is encoding @7-8fps , HB about @2.2, normally closer to 8-11fps i believe. Stay tuned..

    MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!
    Last edited by wolfdogg; 26th Dec 2016 at 21:29.
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