Transfer MiniDV Content to Computer via USB 3.0

[mrtobor]

Please forgive if this has been covered, but I couldn't find it.

I have many MiniDV tapes that I wish to transfer to computer for editing. Naturally, I would like to have them transferred digitally without loss of quality. From my investigations, I realize that FireWire is the way to go. However, FireWire seems to be all but obsolete. I have a new Dell laptop on which I want to do this. Unfortunately, it has no FireWire port nor PCMCIA port, so transfer via FireWire is a non-starter.

The laptop does, however, have a USB 3.0 port which should be more than fast enough for DV transfer. Am I correct in this? If so, can this be done? If so, how? Thanks.

[jagabo]

The laptop does, however, have a USB 3.0 port which should be more than fast enough for DV transfer. Am I correct in this?

Yes.

If so, can this be done?

No. There are firewire to USB converters but they only work for hard drives. I've never heard of one what works with DV camcorders.

[johnmeyer]

Use Firewire and forget about USB. If you have a laptop with a card slot, you can get a Firewire/1394 adapter for very little money. If you have a desktop, you can get a PCI Firewire/1394 card for even less money. Spend the $25 and you'll be a lot happier than trying to deal with a USB-to-Firewire converter (which will cost about the same amount of money).

[mrtobor]

As stated, there is no card slot on the laptop. It seems absurd that there is no practical way of doing this on a modern computer. Btw, I have no desktop computer.

[johnmeyer]

OK, you did say it didn't have a PCMCIA port (a.k.a. "PC Card"), but that is an obsolete technology that has been superseded by Expresscard. However, it sounds like you don't have an Expresscard slot either. I don't have a good suggestion, other than finding a cheap used laptop that does either have a native Firewire port or an Expresscard.

[mrtobor]

Thanks, johnmeyer. I was afraid of that. Which leads me to the question: What the hell is USB 3.0 good for anyway?

I suppose there's nothing left for me to do but hit up eBay for an old laptop. I guess all of those converter or interface boxes (Pinnacle, MovieBox, etc.) are lossy to some degree since most ultimately connect via USB.

[CubDukat]

Thanks, johnmeyer. I was afraid of that. Which leads me to the question: What the hell is USB 3.0 good for anyway?

I suppose there's nothing left for me to do but hit up eBay for an old laptop. I guess all of those converter or interface boxes (Pinnacle, MovieBox, etc.) are lossy to some degree since most ultimately connect via USB.

It's actually quite useful, but neither it nor USB 2.0 will transfer MiniDV from a camera without some kind of intermediate box like the Moviebox.

Firewire is the only way. It's built into the MiniDV specs. And unless you transcode your MiniDV footage to a different format while running it through the Moviebox, no further compression is done. It's just a straight transfer of bits.

[CubDukat]

As stated, there is no card slot on the laptop. It seems absurd that there is no practical way of doing this on a modern computer. Btw, I have no desktop computer.

Well, ever since Apple dropped Firewire as a I/O connection on their Macs, there wasn't much of a reason for anyone else to carry it, since it was their innovation anyway and they had to give Apple a little money to use it. Not to mention that camera makers were switching over to card-based media from MiniDV tape.

It looks like Thunderbolt 2 may suffer the same fate now that they're going to Thunderbolt 3 over the USB 3.1 port. Apart from the Macs and some PC laptops used as graphics workstations, it never caught on with Windows users, and although some motherboard vendors are starting to support Thunderbolt 3, it's never going to catch on for PCs in the same manner it did on the Mac.

[aedipuss]

tapes cost about $20/each to send out and have captured. multiply that by the number you have and figure out if it's worth buying/building a cheap desktop with a firewire port. there were a a couple firewire to usb video devices years ago that claimed to be able to do it like pinnacles, but mostly they were failures according to the users reviews. firewire also has hardware control built in that never seemed to work converted over usb.

[Topsy]

Please forgive if this has been covered, but I couldn't find it.

I have many MiniDV tapes that I wish to transfer to computer for editing. Naturally, I would like to have them transferred digitally without loss of quality. From my investigations, I realize that FireWire is the way to go. However, FireWire seems to be all but obsolete. I have a new Dell laptop on which I want to do this. Unfortunately, it has no FireWire port nor PCMCIA port, so transfer via FireWire is a non-starter.

The laptop does, however, have a USB 3.0 port which should be more than fast enough for DV transfer. Am I correct in this? If so, can this be done? If so, how? Thanks.

Where are you based?

[orsetto]

FireWire barely existed as a built-in feature of Windows laptops. The only ones I ever commonly saw were Sony Vaios and a handful of premium HP models back in the Windows Vista era. Buying a used Sony or HP laptop today is probably a bad bet: they weren't that reliable when new, and they don't age well. I've had some friends pick up older Toshiba laptops and install PCMCIA FireWire cards, but again you're gambling on laptops that weren't that well made to begin with, then throwing an adapter card into the mix. Old desktop PCs can be had for a song, but they take up a lot of space and once again, dealing with an adapter to add FireWire/IEEE1394.

My suggestion to anyone needing to use a legacy FireWire device is hold your nose, look beyond reflexive Apple hatred, and just buy an old Mac laptop. Virtually all FireWire cameras, scanners, etc were designed with the Mac built-in FireWire spec in mind, so compatibility is a non-issue. MacBooks were generally a pass/fail proposition: if defective, they died within months, if they lasted beyond two years, they're rock-reliable (so an old model sold today by any decent eBay specialist should last the duration of your task). Think of the Mac as strictly a capture device: you aren't "stuck with it" for the entire project, you can simply copy the DV files to a USB hard drive and work with them straightaway on your Windows system.

Any white "consumer" MacBook with 13" screen circa 2007-2009 or so will do the trick. You can find many of these on eBay in the $99 range: since all you need it for is DV capture, it doesn't need to be in perfect cosmetic condition. You don't need the latest OS, either: 10.6 Snow Leopard is more than adequate. Be sure the listing includes the AC power adapter as part of the deal (and perhaps verify the USB ports are 2.0-spec so copying to external HDD doesn't crawl). Old Macs always retain some minimal resale value, since somebody always needs one for precisely this type of FireWire project: you could probably make most of the cost back when you get rid of it. One example here.

[mrtobor]

Where are you based?

So. Cal. (greater LA area)

[mrtobor]

And unless you transcode your MiniDV footage to a different format while running it through the Moviebox, no further compression is done. It's just a straight transfer of bits.

If Moviebox can give me an unadulterated bit-to-bit transfer, then that sounds like the answer.

[mrtobor]

Any white "consumer" MacBook with 13" screen circa 2007-2009 or so will do the trick. You can find many of these on eBay in the $99 range: since all you need it for is DV capture, it doesn't need to be in perfect cosmetic condition. You don't need the latest OS, either: 10.6 Snow Leopard is more than adequate. Be sure the listing includes the AC power adapter as part of the deal (and perhaps verify the USB ports are 2.0-spec so copying to external HDD doesn't crawl). Old Macs always retain some minimal resale value, since somebody always needs one for precisely this type of FireWire project: you could probably make most of the cost back when you get rid of it. One example here.

I see what you mean. Makes a lot of sense. Probably a better bet (cheaper) than getting a Moviebox type device. Thanks for the advice!

[aedipuss]

a problem with capturing DV on a mac is that they capture in apple quicktime DV format. it's not the same as PC DV format. if you are going to do the editing on a PC i wouldn't capture it with a mac.

[JVRaines]

Can't you just batch remux the MOVs to AVIs with FFmpeg?

[aedipuss]

Can't you just batch remux the MOVs to AVIs with FFmpeg?

maybe but i always found it a pia. some had to have their audio and video converted separately and then recombined in the editor.

[johnmeyer]

Can't you just batch remux the MOVs to AVIs with FFmpeg?

Yes, I just built some custom restoration scripts for some 1/2" reel-to-reel B&W video from the early 1970s. The client provided MOV (the "Quicktime version of DV") and I don't have Quicktime installed on any of my computers. This standard ffmpeg line did the conversion to AVI without re-encoding:

ffmpeg -i movie.mov -acodec copy -vcodec copy movie.avi

[mrtobor]

I've been looking into the StarTech USB3HDCAP video capture device. Looks good and streams video to the computer via USB 3. My only concern is getting the pure digital video data to the device. My camcorder has two outputs: a DV and an 1/8th inch AV. If there is no workable adapter for the DV that I can find, looks like I will have to connect with the AV output which (correct me if I'm wrong) would mean D/A conversion in the camcorder. Correct?

[orsetto]

Correct- you will go thru two conversions: digital to analog in the camera, then analog back to digital in any USB capture device you buy. The results can be tolerable, depending on the original quality of the videos, and how much you actually care about them (9 out of 10 family video conversions gets viewed once, then stored away and forgotten).

Analog>USB capture sticks come with their own set of problems and issues. They're cheap, and they work (usually), but if at all possible you should try to capture MiniDV tapes directly via digital DV connection.

[jagabo]

Correct- you will go thru two conversions: digital to analog in the camera, then analog back to digital in any USB capture device you buy.

Even worse, I believe that's a hardware h.264 encoder. All your caps will be encoded with h.264 compression -- meaning another loss of quality. Likely a much bigger loss than the digital to analog to digital conversions. At least get a capture device that allows uncompressed YUV capture (and use a lossless or near lossless codec).