Canopus ADVC 100 - Noise/Grain in Capture

[passenger]

I’m getting a lot more noise/grain in my captured image using a Canopus ADVC 100 compared to the same Video8 tape captured using a Sony Digital8 camera with an analog-to-digital passthrough. (I don’t have that Digital8 camera anymore).

My current setup is a Sony CCD TRV118 Hi8 camera into the ADVC 100 (via S-Video + minijack to white/red RCA audio cables) and then outputted to a FireWire 400 (4pin) to FireWire 800 (9pin) cable and then a Thunderbolt adaptor into a MacBook Pro and captured using FCP7.

I'm getting similar noise/grain using the same setup but replacing the Sony CCD TRV118 Hi8 camera with a VCR, so that makes me think it isn't the camera or the tape.

Perhaps it’s the S-video cable. It’s a brand new S-video cable but perhaps the Insignia cable I bought from Best Buy is not great.

Or maybe it is the FireWire cable or the FireWire-800-to-Thunderbolt adaptor. Has anyone found any issues using a Thunderbolt adaptor like this? I realize that's adding an extra connection point.

Any other thoughts or feedback? Thanks!

I'm totally stuck.

[JVRaines]

Could your Digital8 camera have been performing noise reduction? I used an ADVC110 for years and never encountered the issue you describe.

[passenger]

Thanks JV! I didn’t think about that and will do some research. It was one of the mass-produced Sony Digital8 cameras.

Despite all the extra noise, I do notice more image detail in the highlights of the video I captured with the Canopus. You can see it in the white shirt below. When playing back the Canopus footage, as hard as I try, I can’t see any other advantages over the Digital8 footage. The noise is really distracting when it's playing and the Digital8 might even look a little sharper.

I’m totally fine with processing the image in post. I just want to know that I’m pulling in the best image that I can using the Canopus.

Here are some screengrabs:

1) Sony Digital8 camera - no filters



2) Hi8 Camera to Canopus ADVC 100 - no filters



3) Hi8 Camera to Canopus ADVC 100 - with Neat Video denoiser and a quick colour correction



(This is NTSC video from a Video8 tape zoomed in 2x).

[DB83]

Surely an ADVC 110 just passes the signal it receives and does no processing to it whereas an ADVC 300 has various filters etc. to clean up the image.

@JV are you sure it was the 110 that cleaned up the picture and not the VCR performing DNR etc.

[JVRaines]

Huh? No one is talking about the 300 here. The noise/no noise issue is from the OP, not me.

[DB83]

I only mentioned the 300 for the reason stated. I merely questioned the 100/110 for its capability. Even you questioned the OP re noise reduction yet also claim that your 110 did not pass noise.

[aedipuss]

is the canopus 100 keeping the video in the correct colorspace? almost looks like rec709 when it should be displayed as rec601. i.e. there a green push especially in the "white" t-shirt.

[passenger]

@JV are you sure it was the 110 that cleaned up the picture and not the VCR performing DNR etc.

Thanks DB83. Yeah, perhaps my players are the problem. I should try to track down another Hi8 camera.

I tried a different computer, different software (iMovie), and a different FireWire cable at a different location today and got the same results. I guess that leaves the S-Video cable, the Canopus, or the Hi8 player as the only other potential issues. I'm borrowing a friend’s Canopus 110 and an S-Video cable tomorrow.

is the canopus 100 keeping the video in the correct colorspace? almost looks like rec709 when it should be displayed as rec601. i.e. there a green push especially in the "white" t-shirt.

My understanding (which could be totally wrong) was that the Canopus 100 wouldn’t change the colourspace of the image. If it can, do you know how to adjust that? I don't think it's something I can change in the editing software.

Those screengrabs are from Avid and the Color Space was set to YVbCr 601. I don't think that’s relevant but thought I’d mention it nonetheless. The images look the same in FCP7.

[passenger]

Could your Digital8 camera have been performing noise reduction?

Going back to JV’s initial suggestion, I just asked my friend and he thinks that the model of the Digital8 camera I used was the Sony DCR-TRV120 and it looks like it has a Digital Noise Reduction (DNR) function. So that may have solved my dilemma.

Even though I'm getting a worse video image from the Canopus 100 + Hi8, am I to assume that it's more accurate than what I was getting using the Digital8 to capture?

[manono]

Even though I'm getting a worse video image from the Canopus 100 + Hi8...

I disagree. Based solely on the pictures, I'd say the Canopus 100 + Hi8 one is far and away the best. I also think what you did with Neat Video borders on the criminal, unless you like videos that have been turned to mush. There aren't any video samples uploaded?

[passenger]

Thanks for your feedback manono!

The noise is definitely more apparent in the video playback of the Canopus footage. I made an export of the Digital8 capture, the Canopus + Hi8 capture, a side-by-side of the two, and then the Canopus with the Neat Video filter.

Dropbox download: n/a
Vimeo link: n/a

I also think what you did with Neat Video borders on the criminal, unless you like videos that have been turned to mush.

Haha, yeah, it’s totally possible that I only know enough to be dangerous!