Can VHS VCR record using Betamax tape and vice versa?

[digicube]

What if you put a Betamax magnetic tape into a VHS shell, can a VHS VCR record onto it? Also vice versa, VHS magnetic tape in a Betamax shell. Can a Betamax VCR record onto it? I know they won't be able to play it.

Also 1st gen Betacam is basically a Betamax. Can a Betamax VCR record onto Betacam SP tapes? Since a VHS and DVHS VCR can record onto a SVHS tape.

[wulf109]

I loaded VHS tape into Beta shells and it worked just fine in my Beta VCR's. I tried loading Betacam regular tape large format(not metal) into VHS shells but they didn't work well on my VHS vcr's. Beta SP is metal tape and is too abrasive for Beta vcr's.

[digicube]

I loaded a Betamax magnetic tape into a VHS shell, it was loose in the shell since the transport is smaller. It recorded fine in SVHS ET mode, though sometimes it only records in black and white. Maybe it was the quality of the tape. This is cool, so basically VHS=Betamax=Betacam.

[Cornucopia]

Yeah, Betamax & VHS are nearly identical in composition. But Betamax (color-under composite) is not the same as Betacam/SP (component), never has been (only the shell is similar). Those require higher magnetic strength to record properly.

Scott

[hech54]

Loading a rare "Beta" tape into a VHS shell in order to capture a hard to find movie or music/concert sounds like a very handy trick.....but I'm sorry...why in the HE|| would you do all of that just to record onto it?

[digicube]

Yeah, Betamax & VHS are nearly identical in composition. But Betamax (color-under composite) is not the same as Betacam/SP (component), never has been (only the shell is similar). Those require higher magnetic strength to record properly.

Scott

True. Format is different but tape chemistry is similar. According to wikipedia, you can use Betamax tapes to record on Betacam camcorders and vice versa.
You can record 1080i component video on a SVHS tape using DVHS VCR too.

[digicube]

Loading a rare "Beta" tape into a VHS shell in order to capture a hard to find movie or music/concert sounds like a very handy trick.....but I'm sorry...why in the HE|| would you do all of that just to record onto it?

Curiosity and it was cheap to do. I wonder if Digital Betacam, Betacam SP, Betacam SX, MPEG IMX tapes are interchangeable. If only I had the budget to try them out. The HDCAM SR tape costs $200 each. I'm gonna have to wait 10 years for it to come down to $10.

[raffriff42]

Be careful, the wrong tape can destroy the heads if it's too abrasive, or if it's too weak and sheds oxide.

[digicube]

Be careful, the wrong tape can destroy the heads if it's too abrasive, or if it's too weak and sheds oxide.

Found a video of a digital betacam tape used to record in a super betamax vcr. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ueo2Jv4tAIw
Most likely a higher end betacam tape can be used on lower end beta formats.

[Cornucopia]

re: betamax vs. Betacam/SP...
Chemistry for the tape's backing layer is the same, chemistry for the magnetic material is way different, as is the "polishing" of it.

Not possible to get a decent signal from Betacam deck recorded onto a betamax tape and have it be retained. Not enough data density capacity.
Is possible to playback (only) a pre-recorded betamax-recorded betamax tape in Betacam deck, as some are legacy/backward-compatible.

Using Betacam, etc. tape in betamax recorder MAY work, but signal will also never be optimal, and may exhibit wierdness.
NEVER possible to playback a - pre-recorded Betacam-recorded Betacam tape, nor a pre-recorded Betacam-recorded betamax tape in a betamax deck.

2 different beasts. You're fooling yourself if you think you can cheat/cut corners to fix square peg in a round hole.

Summary:
If you have a Betacam, SP, Digibeta deck: always use ONLY the tape formulation that is intended for that deck.
If you have a betamax deck, use betamax tapes (still available from some sources), or re-purposed VHS tape, if you want optimal, expected quality (same w/ VHS)
Further, WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING TRYING TO STILL USE VHS OR BETA TO RECORD ON??!!

Scott

[digicube]

Mostly curiosity and it was cheap to do. If it was true back then, maybe it is still true today. Like how it's just a marketing ploy, you can use HDCAM tapes in place of HDCAM SR. Some people today are still using SVHS tapes to record HD programs in DVHS VCRs.

[digicube]

Just recorded some SVHS video on a betacam sp tape, quality is good but not as good as on a SVHS tape. This probably means I can use betacam sp tapes in a DVHS VCR to record HD videos. Too bad I don't own one, maybe in the future.

Now I have a curiosity if an audio tape can be used as a video tape and vice versa.

[raffriff42]

Now I have a curiosity if an audio tape can be used as a video tape and vice versa.

In the 1950s, the BBC experimented with a (black & white, 405 line) video recorder using audiotape running at 16 feet per second.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_electronic_recording_apparatus

In the late 1980s, there was a "toy" video camera that used a regular audio cassette (!!)
I actually had one; the output was pretty horrible but was was fun to mess around with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PXL-2000

[Cornucopia]

Just recorded some SVHS video on a betacam sp tape, quality is good but not as good as on a SVHS tape. This probably means I can use betacam sp tapes in a DVHS VCR to record HD videos. Too bad I don't own one, maybe in the future.

Now I have a curiosity if an audio tape can be used as a video tape and vice versa.

As I've already stated, you should use the tape type suggested/appropriate for the format.
In this example, analog audio tape is roughly 1/2 to 1/6 weaker in magnetic strength (coercivity, retentivity) than videotape (analog or digital). So less of the intended signal strength will be impressed onto the medium, as well as still less retrieved on playback. Less strength=increased noise, and consequently worse frequency response.
Add to that the fact that there are very few analog tape widths that match video tape widths.
1/2" is supported by both but 1/2" reel-to-reel pro audio recorders (usually 8- or 16-track) are becoming quite rare, so accompanying tapes are also becoming rare. And you cannot reliably or safely use a different tape width for your deck. Nor should you attempt to cut-to-fit. BAD idea.

Scott

[orsetto]

Way WAY back when I was a teenager in the mid-1970s, my best pal's older sister got a job at a real estate company that was using the early Sony PortaPak 1/2" reel-to-reel systems. She would bring a VTR, battery and B/W camera home on weekends, and let us play around with the kit making silly videos similar to the Super-8 film projects we'd been doing for years.

The fun wore off fairly quickly once we filled up our first 30 min reel and discovered additional blanks would cost a small fortune. My pal's father thought he could help us out by bringing home a couple of decommissioned reels of the 1/2" tape used in IBM mainframe computers at the phone company. We tried this in the PortaPak VTR, and the results were abysmal: the video image was obscured by a hailstorm of dropouts. I'm pretty sure we clogged the heads on the PortaPak, leading to an expensive service fee, but since it was their Dad's idea to experiment we weren't blamed. Needless to say, his sister never brought the PortaPak home again after that.

[lingyi]

Don't know if it's true or not, but I remember stories that some cheap off-brand VHS tapes were made from bulk surplus 1" & 2" videotape and were absolutely terrible!

[digicube]

@orsetto

Thanks. Now I know computer data tapes cannot be used for video.