VideoHelp Forum

Try DVDFab and download streaming video, copy, convert or make Blu-rays,DVDs! Download free trial !
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 19 of 19
Thread
  1. Hello. I'm using After Effects to clean up one of my old band's video. I can correct/clean-up the brightness, color (mostly ), and grain/noise, but really need help on what I can do with the singer and guitar player who are "trapped" under the bright spot lights. I'm using AE CC 2015.3, with Boris CC and Red Giant plugins installed as well. But that's not to say I'm not open to trying other apps...

    I know I'm not going to be able to be able to get their details back, they're washed away with recording of the video. But I'm wondering if a mask or something can be applied to just them or the hot spots to lower the intensity of their "glow". Maybe a motion mask is not the right way (never did a mask on a video), but you can see what I'm thinking.

    I have a 9 second/34mb sample video attached if you wanted to see what the raw video looks like.

    Any help or suggestions would really be appreciated.
    Thanks in advance for any assistance.

    LuLuClip1.avi (sample clip)

    Click image for larger version

Name:	4APc2ik.png
Views:	585
Size:	662.4 KB
ID:	38968
    Last edited by msimon7; 20th Oct 2016 at 00:30.
    Quote Quote  
  2. Not only are the whites completely blown out, but the blacks are horribly crushed as well. Both need lots of work and nothing will regain the lost detail. I suggest you go back and recapture it because, almost certainly, the VHS tape isn't like that. Can't you adjust the brightness and contrast before capping? What did you capture with? A Canopus box? In AviSynth-speak:

    Tweak(Bright=16,Cont=0.75,Coring=False)
    ColorYUV(Analyze=True).Limiter(Show="Luma")
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	BandPic.jpg
Views:	252
Size:	98.7 KB
ID:	38970  

    Quote Quote  
  3. Manono, that's a really nice job you did with your tweak. You are absolutely right that there is nothing that can be done to recover detail, but the way your little script "filled in" the highlights looks really natural.

    [edit]Here's the best I could do, using various filters in my NLE (Vegas). I concentrated mostly on bringing out details from the background, and also doing something to fill in the blown-out highlights. Methinks Manono's script does a better job on the highlights:

    Last edited by johnmeyer; 20th Oct 2016 at 12:02.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Hello Guys, thank you very much for your replies. I took your advice to heart, and have been recapturing the tape multiples times with different settings the past few days.
    I paid to have these tapes captured, mainly as a few would not play for me in my VCR/PC setup, so gave this company my tapes and hard drive to capture them.

    My setup is:
    JVC HR-S7900U VCR (excellent condition) connected to a Canopus ADVC-110 via s-video, then to Win7 PC via firewire, captured with Scenalyzer Live v4.0

    Since this tape is playable in my setup (VHS-C in a VHS Adapters), I tried the following:

    These are the samples:
    The original from the video company (same as in first thread post):
    LuLuClip1_origCapture.avi

    All my captures I tried different settings on the JVC VCR only.

    My capture 1: The TBC built into it the JVC is on, with all other setting default:
    LuLuClip2_wTBC.avi
    I liked the results a more than the original, smoother look overall picture and over exposed guys seem a little less over exposed.
    But I hate that I will have to crop the bottom 12+ pixels rows off. When the TBC is on, that is what happens it seems, at least in my setup or this tape.

    My capture 2: The TBC is Off, Video Calibration setting is Off, Video Stabilization is On:
    LuLuClip3_vidCal-OFF_vidStab-ON.avi
    Not quite as smooth as TBC, but I get to keep the bottom of the picture. This looks the best of the bunch to me.

    My capture 3: The TBC is On, Video Calibration setting is On, Picture Control set to Sharp, Video Stabilization is Off (video Stabilization is automatically off when TBC on):
    LuLuClip4_wTBC_vidCalib-ON_picCntrl-Sharp.avi
    Same issue with bottom will have to be cropped, looks like the Sharp setting did more damage than good (to me at least)

    My capture 4: The TBC is Off, Video Calibration setting is On, Picture Control set to Sharp, Video Stabilization is On:
    LuLuClip5_wTBC-Off_vidStab-On_vidCalib-ON_picCntrl-Sharp.avi
    Same as capture #2, but again looks like the Sharp hurts more than helps.

    One thing about all of my tests, is that the top "wavyness" of the top of the picture is no longer present like in the original. That is a bonus.

    If you have a moment, I would love to hear your opinions on the test files and which one you'd think gives me the best starting point.
    I'm leaning toward working with the capture 2 file and using AviSynth (or After Effects, or Sony Vegas) to sharpen, as well as other cleanups.

    Since I've never done it, when you mentioned using AviSynth to adjust the brightness & contrast, is that done while you capture or after you have your avi file load the script in virtualdub and then run it thru the script? Trying to capture with virtualdub didn't workout as nice as Scenalyzer, so hopefully its applied post capture.

    Sorry about the long post, but been working on the recaptures for days and wanted do a full dump of all the info I had
    thanks again for your input and advice.
    Last edited by msimon7; 23rd Oct 2016 at 21:55.
    Quote Quote  
  5. To my eyes, the original capture is better in almost every way: there is a lot more detail in the organist's face; and you can see details on the face and shirt of the bass player in the background.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Search PM
    What's with the stripes? Looks like something the camera added to the clipped areas, which implies that the white clip is in the recording and can't be fixed. You can bring down the intensity of those areas, but then you'll just have gray blobs instead of white blobs. As for the head-switch noise, turning off the TBC doesn't give you any more picture. It just pads the image with black at the top (mostly) and bottom of the frame.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Search Comp PM
    Look at the guy with the guitar in the background.

    In the original cap you can just barely see a face. In your JVC caps (all of them) his face is just a blurrly blob.

    That's typical for JVC playback and the reason why I do not like JVC decks. No matter how you set them up the output always looks processed. Some people like this though, so it's up to you.


    The only improvement over the original cap is a little bit more chroma still present in the spotlight area but there is barely any additional luma detail – at best the stripes are a little more pronounced.


    So personally I'd stick with the original cap.
    Quote Quote  
  8. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Search PM
    Turn off TBC/DNR and set Picture Control to Edit and you will get all the noise back.
    Quote Quote  
  9. If JVRaines is correct, and the DNR is tied to the TBC, then you most definitely want to turn it off. I have an old Panasonic deck that does this and, as a result, the TBC is worse than useless.
    Quote Quote  
  10. Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by JVRaines View Post
    Turn off TBC/DNR and set Picture Control to Edit and you will get all the noise back.
    Not with a JVC, not all the noise.
    Like I've said, you can have the settings however you want you will never get a pure raw output from a JVC. Yes, even with TBC/DNR turned off and EDIT on. It'll always look kind of processed.


    Now I don't want to be JVC bashing here because I know some people like the way they make the video look, but it's not for me.
    Quote Quote  
  11. I'll give it one last capture try with TBC/NR off and Picture Control to Edit and see what it looks like.
    Sounds like the consensus is that the original is the best source to go with.
    If that ends up the case, then I have a ton of work to do with trying to mask the singer/guitar player so they can have a separate set of filters applied to them and the rest of the image can have another set (masking via After Effects and mocha most likely)

    I know this is an uphill battle with old crappy footage, but want to try and do as much as I can to make it better - and I know I can get something back thats not there, but do want to make what little I have as best as possible.

    Maybe take the original, run thru AviSynth like Manono did, then start with the masking edits? seems like I'm going to need two sets of edits/masks regardless (on for over exposed guys, and one for the rest of the picture).

    I was so focused on the over exposed guys, I didn't much notice the detail lost on the rest of the image with the 4 captures I did.

    Thanks again - and always up to hear any more suggestions to try!
    Quote Quote  
  12. Originally Posted by Skiller View Post
    Now I don't want to be JVC bashing...
    The JVC fans are pretty vocal around here so why not some Panasonic love? I wouldn't have a JVC if you gave me one and will take my Panasonic NV-HS860 over about anything else. I'll do my filtering in AviSynth and don't need any old and obsolete filters messing up my captures.
    Quote Quote  
  13. Originally Posted by manono View Post
    I'll do my filtering in AviSynth and don't need any old and obsolete filters messing up my captures.
    Hey manono, can you recommend some Avisynth filters/settings you would use, if any, beyond what you mentioned in your first post?
    Do you capture your video (avi) and then run it thru Avisynth via virtualdub as a two-step process? yes, i'm a Avisynth newbie
    Quote Quote  
  14. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Search PM
    A "pure raw output" would be FM, right? I think JVC knows what that is since they invented VHS. But to each his own. Some tapes do look better on a Panasonic or even a Sharp.
    Quote Quote  
  15. Attached is my last capture attempt.
    The TBC is Off, Video Calibration setting is On, Picture Control set to EDIT, Video Stabilization is On:
    LuLuClip6_wTBC-Off_vidCalib-ON_picCntrl-Edit.avi
    Comparing a bunch of the clips, I do see what many of you said about the original being the clearest (looking at the bass player's face especially).
    It looks like after many trials and recaptures, I'm back at square one and working with the original. If that's the case, so be it, just want to make sure I'm starting with the best possible version to try and tune.

    I tried a quick reprocess of the original clip with avisynth and it came out squished (vertically not as tall as original, like the aspect ratio was off or height was reduced - but not in a height crop way)
    Code:
    DirectShowSource("J:\Test\LuLuClip1_origCapture.avi")
    Tweak(Bright=16,Cont=0.75,Coring=False)
    looks like I have a bunch of learning/catching up on avisynth...
    Quote Quote  
  16. Originally Posted by msimon7 View Post
    Hey manono, can you recommend some Avisynth filters/settings you would use, if any, beyond what you mentioned in your first post?
    I capture old black and white movies from VHS tape so the process is different than yours. And it's several more than a two-step process. I also have the added advantage of having software available to set the brightness and contrast (and, if needed, hue and/or saturation) before capturing. That's why I asked if you could do something similar. I checked and, apparently, your ADVC-110 doesn't have dip switches to control those things.

    In the HS860 I turn off all sharpening and noise reduction but swear by its TBC. The DNR and TBC are independent of each other.

    I do have it easier in that I usually don't have to do any color correction. On the other hand, my sources are often very poor.

    For general denoising it might be FFT3DFilter or DFTTest. For sharpening it might be the AviSynth built in Sharpen filter, or LimitedSharpenFaster. Lots of Levels, Tweak and YLevelsS for fixing Levels/Gain/Brightness/Contrast issues. All the usual stuff. Others have their own favorites.

    I tried a quick reprocess of the original clip with avisynth and it came out squished
    Avisynth has nothing to do with aspect ratios. Notice in my picture it's the unresized 720x480 (1.5:1) where for DVD or whatever final format you use, an aspect ratio (4:3 DAR if for DVD) will be set so it plays back properly. It's nothing for you to worry about at this stage.
    Last edited by manono; 24th Oct 2016 at 22:19.
    Quote Quote  
  17. I've posted my VHS restoration steps many times. You can search here or at doom9.org.

    I wanted to violently agree with what manono said: "... I turn off all sharpening and noise reduction ..."

    This is the key to using any VCR, whether Panasonic, JVC or anything else. All those 1980s analog processing circuits cannot hold a candle to what you can do with AVISynth's filters.

    The exception to this rule is processing that can only be done with direct access to the analog signal itself. The most obvious is time base correction. Despite the brave efforts of a few to re-align each scan line by looking at herring bone patterns in the overscan, the only way I know to get each scan line aligned properly is with a TBC (there are other things a TBC can do as well).

    So, turn off all that VHS noise reduction circuitry (which is sometimes done by turning ON the edit switch). This includes the HQ circuitry which simply adds sharpening which, once again, you are better off doing digitally, if at all.
    Quote Quote  
  18. I've posted my VHS restoration steps many times. You can search here or at doom9.org.

    I wanted to violently agree with what manono said: "... I turn off all sharpening and noise reduction ..."

    This is the key to using any VCR, whether Panasonic, JVC or anything else. All those 1980s analog processing circuits cannot hold a candle to what you can do with AVISynth's filters.

    The exception to this rule is processing that can only be done with direct access to the analog signal itself. The most obvious is time base correction. Despite the brave efforts of a few to re-align each scan line by looking at herring bone patterns in the overscan, the only way I know to get each scan line aligned properly is with a TBC (there are other things a TBC can do as well).

    So, turn off all that VHS noise reduction circuitry (which is sometimes done by turning ON the edit switch). This includes the HQ circuitry which simply adds sharpening which, once again, you are better off doing digitally, if at all.
    Quote Quote  
  19. Thanks guys for all your replies. I have some serious experimenting to do, and will look up your guide as well John.
    I'm sure I'll be back for some more tips or advice. Thanks again.
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads