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  1. I'm seem to recall the FCC decided to require the cable companies to come up with a unified standard so 3rd party OEM's could make and sell DVR's so people wouldn't have to rent one anymore. Has that changed now that the providers have to create an app? I've kept my old CRT's along with a digital to analog converter box from Time Warner, so I can still use my old VCR's to record shows. Really wanted to buy some big screen TV's but haven't because I didn't want to rent their DVR or buy a TIVO.
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    Originally Posted by jacatone View Post
    I'm seem to recall the FCC decided to require the cable companies to come up with a unified standard so 3rd party OEM's could make and sell DVR's so people wouldn't have to rent one anymore. Has that changed now that the providers have to create an app? I've kept my old CRT's along with a digital to analog converter box from Time Warner, so I can still use my old VCR's to record shows. Really wanted to buy some big screen TV's but haven't because I didn't want to rent their DVR or buy a TIVO.
    All you ever do is come here to whine about this one subject every few months. Is a link about this subject from a reputable source too much trouble? Like maybe this: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/07/cable-lobby-set-top-offer-no-dvr...re-compromises

    Don't hold your breath. The FCC tried something similar, Allvid, 6 years ago and nothing happened. At this rate you will be dead without owning an HDTV.
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  3. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jacatone View Post
    Really wanted to buy some big screen TV's but haven't because I didn't want to rent their DVR or buy a TIVO.
    I've yet to hear of an HDTV that can't play analog composite coming from a VCR, or analog tuning via coax. You could still use your VCR for time shifting, and watch live programing in its original broadcast quality.
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  4. Rancid User ron spencer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jacatone View Post
    I'm seem to recall the FCC decided to require the cable companies to come up with a unified standard so 3rd party OEM's could make and sell DVR's so people wouldn't have to rent one anymore. Has that changed now that the providers have to create an app? I've kept my old CRT's along with a digital to analog converter box from Time Warner, so I can still use my old VCR's to record shows. Really wanted to buy some big screen TV's but haven't because I didn't want to rent their DVR or buy a TIVO.
    LOL....you are missing out. This post made my day!
    'Do I look absolutely divine and regal, and yet at the same time very pretty and rather accessible?' - Queenie
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  5. Hey usually_quiet why aren't you. I don't understand why you've taken up the job of monitoring my occasional posts so you can pass judgement on them. If you ever had kids, I feel sorry for them. Did read the article you linked and am more confused than ever. I would have thought the cable providers would embrace third party oem's making dvr's since these providers are steadily losing viewers. Will look into using my old vcrs with an hdtv though.
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    Originally Posted by jacatone View Post
    Hey usually_quiet why aren't you. I don't understand why you've taken up the job of monitoring my occasional posts so you can pass judgement on them. If you ever had kids, I feel sorry for them.
    If you have kids, I feel sorry for them. Having to listen to a parent whine about the same things over and over, year after year would be really annoying.

    Originally Posted by jacatone View Post
    Did read the article you linked and am more confused than ever. I would have thought the cable providers would embrace third party oem's making dvr's since these providers are steadily losing viewers.
    ROTFLMAO Cable providers still make money whether people drop cable and move to Internet streaming services or not, since they are also the only choice for high-speed home Internet service in most places. One CATV provider, Comcast is also a content producer, owns a share of Hulu, and owns an OTA network, NBC.

    So what is stopping you from cutting the cord? Since free OTA TV is apparently not an option for you, are you also too cheap to pay more for adequate Internet service and pay for suitable streaming services?
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  7. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    ROTFLMAO Cable providers still make money whether people drop cable and move to Internet streaming services or not, since they are also the only choice for high-speed home Internet service in most places.
    Can usually get either ADSL, ADSL2+, or Bonded ADSL2+ in most areas. DSL usually goes to the places cable won't, as the phone companies were required to offer POTS service in unprofitable areas. Along with Fiber becoming more of threat, being pushed by electric companies/coops, municipalities, and big companies like Google. Often times offering their own TV packages.

    My local small town does not even have a cable provider, so DISH is pushed heavily here.
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    Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    ROTFLMAO Cable providers still make money whether people drop cable and move to Internet streaming services or not, since they are also the only choice for high-speed home Internet service in most places.
    Can usually get either ADSL, ADSL2+, or Bonded ADSL2+ in most areas. DSL usually goes to the places cable won't, as the phone companies were required to offer POTS service in unprofitable areas. Along with Fiber becoming more of threat, being pushed by electric companies/coops, municipalities, and big companies like Google. Often times offering their own TV packages.

    My local small town does not even have a cable provider, so DISH is pushed heavily here.
    A lot of DSL service does not qualify as high speed Internet. I had Verizon DSL service over a POTS line not too long ago. At well under 1 Mbps, it was too slow to stream SD video without constant buffering. Verizon preferred its customers in this area switch to FIOS telephone service, cable and Internet, and eventually eliminated DSL entirely. The FCC regulates Verizon's cable service the same way as other cablecos.

    In some states, there are laws in place which only permit cablecos and telcos to provide high speed Internet. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/isp-lobby-has-already-won-limits-on-public-...-in-20-states/ Even in places where communities are allowed to offer their own high-speed Internet service, only a small percentage of communities have it.

    There are not many locations where Google fiber is available and they are expanding at a snail's pace. https://fiber.google.com/newcities/
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 12th Sep 2016 at 14:04. Reason: spelling
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  9. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    There are not many locations where Google fiber is available and they are expanding at a snail's pace. https://fiber.google.com/newcities/
    And it's getting slower:

    http://www.zdnet.com/article/google-fiber-reportedly-told-to-cut-half-its-staff-to-off...ber-shortfall/
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  10. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    A lot of DSL service does not qualify as high speed Internet.
    If you are talking about the FCC's definition of 25Mbit, then yes as only ADSL2+ bonding can go above 25Mbit. But Netflix tends to stream 1080p at ~3Mbit and recommends a 5Mbit connection.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I had Verizon DSL service over a POTS line not too long ago. At well under 1 Mbps, it was too slow to stream SD video without constant buffering. Verizon preferred its customers in this area switch to FIOS telephone service, cable and Internet, and eventually eliminated DSL entirely. The FCC regulates Verizon's cable service the same way as other cablecos.
    I'm currently on 1.5Mbit from Centurylink. Despite that, VP9 on youtube makes a big difference allowing for 480p-720p buffer free. But I still think Centurylink is cancer, and would switch if there was anything better.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    In some states, there are laws in place which only permit cablecos and telcos to provide high speed Internet. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/isp-lobby-has-already-won-limits-on-public-...-in-20-states/
    Those laws target municipalities only, as they claim it's unfair to have to compete with organizations that also has local legal power. In my state, these laws are also in effect but a town near me of 13k people, has a municipal fiber internet service. They built the fiber service before the law came so it's exempt. I don't like these municipal bans but the big telcos have a point, and are going to exploit it to keep the status quo of low competition.

    That being said, rural electric coops can built fiber networks easily as their entire point of existing is to own and maintain power poles/lines. Poles which can easily hold fiber optic lines. The rural coop next door to me has completed their fiber roll out and now sell 1Gbit for $100 to any electrical coop members. Words can not describe how jelly I am, and wish I could switch coops just for the internet. Any electric company that owns the poles can put up fiber without much legally to stop them. Also helps that fiber can go about 20 miles before needing any kind of boost/amp, so the range exceeds DSL by far.

    Can also get internet from some WiMax style ISPs, I have one locally in my small town, or cellphone internet service (expensive usually). Could get satellite but that's the nuclear option.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    There are not many locations where Google fiber is available and they are expanding at a snail's pace. https://fiber.google.com/newcities/
    Yeah, they keep having to fight with the people who own the poles.
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    Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    A lot of DSL service does not qualify as high speed Internet.
    If you are talking about the FCC's definition of 25Mbit, then yes as only ADSL2+ bonding can go above 25Mbit. But Netflix tends to stream 1080p at ~3Mbit and recommends a 5Mbit connection.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I had Verizon DSL service over a POTS line not too long ago. At well under 1 Mbps, it was too slow to stream SD video without constant buffering. Verizon preferred its customers in this area switch to FIOS telephone service, cable and Internet, and eventually eliminated DSL entirely. The FCC regulates Verizon's cable service the same way as other cablecos.
    I'm currently on 1.5Mbit from Centurylink. Despite that, VP9 on youtube makes a big difference allowing for 480p-720p buffer free. But I still think Centurylink is cancer, and would switch if there was anything better.
    I'm not alking about the FCC's definition for broadband. DSL speeds are dependent upon how well the lines are maintained, and the distance from the point of origination for the service. That is why providers only promise "up to" a particular speed in the plan's description. My DSL service was advertised as up to 1 Mbps but the best I ever had was 300 kbps. There were no faster choices in my area for DSL. I currently have 3 Mbps using Comcast's Economy Internet service. Yep I am cheap, but I prefer renting movies from Redbox to streaming, so I don't need faster service
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 12th Sep 2016 at 16:25.
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    A fact sheet outlining the FCC commissioner's latest proposal can be downloaded here: https://www.fcc.gov/document/chairman-wheelers-plan-increase-choice-and-innovation-video

    A more detailed version of the plan won't be available until after the commission formally approves it.

    Cable companies and satellite companies which are not exempt (on account of being too small) must supply free apps that run on various devices (tablets, streaming devices, game consoles, smart phones, and smart TVs were mentioned) which support the use of streaming services. The app has to provide the same access to content as the provider's set top box, which means both linear channels and on-demand content must be available, in most cases.

    A requirement to support third-party set-top boxes with tuning capability (sans CableCARD) was not mentioned. There was nothing indicating that apps must be able to record programming either.

    Since content will presumably be streamed over the Internet, it doesn't look like people without a home network and suitable Internet service will be able to benefit from the proposed changes.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 13th Sep 2016 at 02:27. Reason: clarity
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  13. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I'm not talking about the FCC's definition for broadband.
    Then you are making up your own definition for what "quali[fies] as high speed Internet".

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    DSL speeds are dependent upon how well the lines are maintained, and the distance from the point of origination for the service. That is why providers only promise "up to" a particular speed in the plan's description. My DSL service was advertised as up to 1 Mbps but the best I ever had was 300 kbps. There were no faster choices in my area for DSL. I currently have 3 Mbps using Comcast's Economy Internet service. Yep I am cheap, but I prefer renting movies from Redbox to streaming, so I don't need faster service
    Sounds like you either had a really long and maybe noisy phone line, or you were connected to a copper fed remote DSLAM that was oversold many times over. Can't really know without looking at your modem stats, which is impossible now that you don't have the DSL service.

    Usually your contract says that they are required to provide 70-80% of the advertised rate at a minimum. Which ISPs should take seriously, at least Centurylink did by coming out and trenching me a new 20ft of line to the pole to fix an old noisy line (to their credit). Of course I had to call them and convince them there was a problem, and that it was on their side of the demarcation.

    You can certainly stream on 3Mbit, maybe not always 1080p but surely 720p on things like Netflix and Youtube. Don't know about other streaming providers.
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    Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I'm not talking about the FCC's definition for broadband.
    Then you are making up your own definition for what "quali[fies] as high speed Internet".
    You seemed to be saying the current FCC definition was unreasonable. (The FCC previously defined broadband as 4 Mbps or better.) However, my point was nobody's definition of broadband likely includes DSL as slow as I had.

    Originally Posted by KarMa View Post
    Sounds like you either had a really long and maybe noisy phone line, or you were connected to a copper fed remote DSLAM that was oversold many times over. Can't really know without looking at your modem stats, which is impossible now that you don't have the DSL service.
    Where FIOS fiber is available, copper lines are never replaced again, and the copper lines in my area were not new when FIOS arrived. I had the best physical connection the tech could find. It beat dial-up, which was what I had previously.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 13th Sep 2016 at 12:31.
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