cinavia

[Mark97213]

Is it safe to assume that no Media Players will be affected by Cinavia? Was thinking about getting Roku 4 Media Player but am unsure as to Cinavia.

[pandy]

I wont have a clue how to do all that

Try something like this - should work if i correctly understood where cinavia watermarking is stored - of course audio will be quite low quality (more like portable - small FM radio) but at least without annoying phase distortions.

@ffmpeg.exe -y -threads %cput% -hide_banner -loglevel 32 -stats -i "%1" -c:v copy -c:a ac3 -b:a 384k -af "firequalizer=gain='if(gte(f,20),0,-INF)+if(lte(f,7000),0,-INF)'" -c:s copy -f matroska "%~n1.mkv"

And btw - people simply don't buy cinavia decoders - it is strange that people wish to pay money for cinavia (i mean to implement cinavia producer of the decoder need to buy cinavia as cinavia is commercial and patented product - go for cheapest China player you can find - there is high chance that it will have no cinavia implemented at all).

[Kerry56]

Is it safe to assume that no Media Players will be affected by Cinavia? Was thinking about getting Roku 4 Media Player but am unsure as to Cinavia.

If it doesn't have an optical drive, then you won't find Cinavia detection on a streaming media player. There were only a handful of players with optical drives, like the Dune HD, so the vast majority of streaming players do not have Cinavia.

[Mark97213]

Great. Interesting that the studios haven't pushed to incorporate everything that is capable of playing back media, some type of firmware capable chip that incorporates Cinavia detection as they did with the Blu-ray optical drives licensing.

[Mark97213]

How about TV's? Do TV's with Networking capabilities and optical outs to connect to your AV Receiver or whatever, do they have the ability to incorporate Cinavia detection?

[sneaker]

It was added to older BluRay players with a new firmware so there really shouldn't be any reason it couldn't be added to TVs as well. But that doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

Great. Interesting that the studios haven't pushed to incorporate everything that is capable of playing back media, some type of firmware capable chip that incorporates Cinavia detection as they did with the Blu-ray optical drives licensing.

Who says they didn't try?

[Mark97213]

I have an Oppo Blu-ray player BDP-83SE that I use for Blu-ray and hard wired streaming. Not knowing much about Cinavia, I was hesitant to update firmware on it so I called Oppo and asked specifically about the Firmware process. I expressed my fear about updating the firmware and unknowingly updating to make my unit now Cinavia enabled. Oppo stated it doesn't work that way. The unit would have had to be manufactured with technology capable of utilizing Cinavia at time of manufacture in order to implement Cinavia protection. Cinavia cannot be firmware updated to make a non Cinavia licensed unit to all of a sudden become one.

[tarzan54]

I have an Oppo Blu-ray player BDP-83SE that I use for Blu-ray and hard wired streaming. Not knowing much about Cinavia, I was hesitant to update firmware on it so I called Oppo and asked specifically about the Firmware process. I expressed my fear about updating the firmware and unknowingly updating to make my unit now Cinavia enabled. Oppo stated it doesn't work that way. The unit would have had to be manufactured with technology capable of utilizing Cinavia at time of manufacture in order to implement Cinavia protection. Cinavia cannot be firmware updated to make a non Cinavia licensed unit to all of a sudden become one.

Didn't the firmware update on some bluray players and the PS3 player enable cinavia.

[hdfills]

yes they did tarzan so software based not hardware based

[Mark97213]

Some time ago I heard rumors that certain PS3's would still play Cinavia enabled content IF they hadn't updated to a specific firmware but I have no idea if that is true or if that rumor was just a reflection of PS3's manufactured after the licensing. I have to imagine even if true, the PS3's effected by the firmware must have already had the build to utilize Cinavia but didn't until all the legal arguments were satisfied and then owners updated to activate Cinavia at a letter date. Just a guess. However, according to Oppo, their pre Cinavia builds cannot now be reprogrammed to use Cinavia via firmware after the fact.

[pandy]

Cinavia detection require signal processing i.e. you must have or software and do DSP in software or HW DSP and do signal processing in HW - Cinavia require processing power and player must be able to deliver this processing power.
Many players was build before Cinavia (PS3 for example) so Cinavia update was added later trough firmware - PS3 has plenty processing power so it was possible to accommodate Cinavia detection without problems Oppo made before Cinavia may be not capable to be upgraded due for example fixed function DSP (so hardware DSP) without possibility to update firmware on DSP side.
Definitely Cinavia is commercial and patented technology and this means it is not for free, every vendor producing player need to pay for Cinavia - nowadays Cinavia may be implemented at chip level so for example semiconductor vendor may offer only chips with Cinavia but still presence of Cinavia algorithm doesn't mean that playing protected content will be prohibited.

[hello_hello]

Great. Interesting that the studios haven't pushed to incorporate everything that is capable of playing back media, some type of firmware capable chip that incorporates Cinavia detection as they did with the Blu-ray optical drives licensing.

Fortunately the studios don't control everything. I can't remember exactly what it costs, but it's hideously expensive to license Cinavia and every disc that includes it requires a royalty payment.
Bluray players include it because it's compulsory.... part of the licence to manufacture a Bluray player...... and for any other player it'd require a manufacture to pay a lot of money to license a technology that'll deter people from buying their product. Unless it became law in a particular country for all media playing capable devices to include it, it'll be unlikely to happen.

Cinavia seems monumentally dumb to me. I don't think it's use on Bluray discs is very wide spread anyway, and all it seems to do is encourage people not to use a Bluray player as a multimedia device. The Playstation includes Cinavia because Sony have a vested interest, and software Bluray players such as PowerDVD probably have to include it, but that's about it.

There was a cut-off date for including Cinavia in Bluray players (Feb 2011?). Any players licensed for manufacture before then weren't required to include it and could be produced till the end of time without it (even if they're updated via firmware). In reality though, models are frequently updated so eventually all current players had it. I suspect part of the motivation for manufacturers to include Cinavia in firmware updates for older players if they could, was to not discourage people from buying a new player any more than they had to. If you could continue updated your old player without it being inflicted with Cinavia there's less incentive to buy a new one.

[theewizard]

the simple explanation

you want to mfg blu-ray disc player, you can't get a new license to the technology (its patent protected) unless you includes cinavia in your device, the license to the tech requires you to include the cinavia detection protection in your BR player

movie producers aka studios, pay a license fee to use cinavia to protect their BD movies, hoping to maximize sales of the retail discs, because copies won't play in consumer disc player

[GrampaD]

[snip] You are much better off using a device that doesn't obey the Cinavia signal, for example, any streaming media player that doesn't have an optical drive.

...FOR THE MOMENT. But if cinavia remains unbroken, then it's only a matter of time before the studios add it to video, then add encrypted code to it that will make protected video files unplayable even in software players.

after that, the only way to, ah, make backups of either video or audio files protected by cinavia is to CAM the output. IMO, the only good thing about the North Koreans getting better and better at hacking is that they might be able to break cinavia then post decrypted video files in their honeypots.