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  1. Rancid User ron spencer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    PowerDirector 16 Ultra was just released, and unsurprisingly does not include UHD Blu-ray authoring: https://www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdirector-ultra/compare-upgrade_en_US.html?&r=1

    [Edit] There was never "a good chance" that UHD Blu-Ray authoring would be added. As has been said many times in this thread:

    1. The entertainment industry doesn't want consumer UHD Blu-Ray authoring software to become available.
    2. Even if Cyberlink were allowed to produce consumer UHD Blu-Ray authoring software, licensing costs would be very expensive, raising the price of the software beyond what the consumer market would bear. Any company that wants to sell UHD Blu-Ray authoring software legally, including Cyberlink, must pay the required licensing fees or face patent infringement lawsuits and heavy fines.
    I doubt it...they more than likely realized nobody uses optical media anymore and there is no market for this stuff. People use servers now.

    With respect to 1&2, and as mentioned in this thread, why don't you email them and ask? Do you have email?
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    Originally Posted by ron spencer View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    PowerDirector 16 Ultra was just released, and unsurprisingly does not include UHD Blu-ray authoring: https://www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdirector-ultra/compare-upgrade_en_US.html?&r=1

    [Edit] There was never "a good chance" that UHD Blu-Ray authoring would be added. As has been said many times in this thread:

    1. The entertainment industry doesn't want consumer UHD Blu-Ray authoring software to become available.
    2. Even if Cyberlink were allowed to produce consumer UHD Blu-Ray authoring software, licensing costs would be very expensive, raising the price of the software beyond what the consumer market would bear. Any company that wants to sell UHD Blu-Ray authoring software legally, including Cyberlink, must pay the required licensing fees or face patent infringement lawsuits and heavy fines.
    I doubt it...they more than likely realized nobody uses optical media anymore and there is no market for this stuff. People use servers now.
    Cyberlink PowerDirector still includes Blu-ray and DVD authoring. If Cyberlink's only reason for not adding UHD authoring was "everybody is using servers", wouldn't they have simply dropped authoring entirely for lack of interest?


    Originally Posted by ron spencer View Post
    With respect to 1&2, and as mentioned in this thread, why don't you email them and ask? Do you have email?
    I was responding to Eugene157's post above. Maybe you have confused me with him.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 19th Sep 2017 at 21:14.
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  3. Rancid User ron spencer's Avatar
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    Cyberlink PowerDirector still includes Blu-ray and DVD authoring. If Cyberlink's only reason for not adding UHD authoring was "everybody is using servers", wouldn't they have simply dropped authoring entirely for lack of interest?
    Of course not...this software is already made and just continue to be sold. It costs them nothing to continue the offering.
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    Originally Posted by ron spencer View Post
    Cyberlink PowerDirector still includes Blu-ray and DVD authoring. If Cyberlink's only reason for not adding UHD authoring was "everybody is using servers", wouldn't they have simply dropped authoring entirely for lack of interest?
    Of course not...this software is already made and just continue to be sold. It costs them nothing to continue the offering.
    It may not cost as much as adding something new, but it does cost something. Every feature, even a pre-existing one, is supposed to be tested by QA to make sure it still works correctly after creating a new version of a program. Possibly there are ongoing licensing fees connected with Blu-ray, DVD, and AVCHD authoring.
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    1. Main problem there is too little demand for it.

    2. It has to be approved by the UHD BR association.

    3.There is a license fee as there is for Cyberlink PDVD. Max license fee is $8. And they certainly get a discount.

    So license fee is not a deal breaker since CL P DVD 17 sells for app $50 including that fee. And the industry could not care less, we are just background noise, how could shaky vacation movies or whatever else be a threat in UHD BR, if they were not in DVD, AVCHD, BR.

    http://www.one-blue.com/royalty-rates/ultra_hd_royalty_rates.html

    Cyberlink and Pinnacle, each have a thread were you can request new features for their products. On both, over the last 12 month period, there was only 1 request for UHD BD. For next year so far there are 3 on CL and 2 on P*.

    I have contacted the sales departments of 6 software producers and the answer has been the same, no demand. And two have even said that the majority of their users are happy with just DVD. Some require an extra cost BR plugin or you have to buy the top program version to burn just simple plain old BR.

    Most editing programs that handle 4K today have HEVC, the heavy lifting is done. The missing link is the UHD BR file system, while exactly the same as BR, but with different content in those files, to instruct the player what to do.

    But as I said above, that involves a license fee, costly approval process (time and fees) and engineering time. And why do that just to satisfy a few? (At this time)

    Cyberlink P DVD 17 plays UHD on a PC if you meet the PC specs, never mind that for the price of that PC you can buy at least SIX !!! table top UHD BR players. Funny

    Bummer!!!

    Eugene
    Last edited by Eugene157; 23rd Sep 2017 at 14:09.
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    Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post

    Cyberlink P DVD 17 plays UHD on a PC if you meet the PC specs, never mind that for the price of that PC you can buy at least SIX !!! table top UHD BR players. Funny

    Bummer!!!

    Eugene
    Well, if someone is in the market for a new PC anyway, and buys carefully, the additional cost will be less than $200 for a drive and software. I'm planning to do that myself in the next year.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 23rd Sep 2017 at 15:06.
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    Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
    3.There is a license fee as there is for Cyberlink PDVD. Max license fee is $8. And they certainly get a discount.

    So license fee is not a deal breaker since CL P DVD 17 sells for app $50 including that fee. And the industry could not care less, we are just background noise, how could shaky vacation movies or whatever else be a threat in UHD BR, if they were not in DVD, AVCHD, BR.

    http://www.one-blue.com/royalty-rates/ultra_hd_royalty_rates.html
    The $8 license fee that you quoted and all the other fees in your link are related to playback. The UHD BR Association has a vested interest in democratizing the adoption of commercially produced UHD BR discs, and kept the fees low.

    The fees for authoring could be considerably higher. The UHD BR Association also has a vested interest in restricting the purchase of authoring software to select industry insiders, so those insiders can continue to collect money for professional services. Only a few companies are currently doing Blu-ray authoring. See https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/379959-UHD-BD-Authoring-Tool#post2458851
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 23rd Sep 2017 at 15:46.
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    I suggest doing what we did with previous formats. Back in the days when DVDs where expensive, we gathered some movies in MPG files with DVD specs in our hard disks and even created the relevant VOB files using different tools available. If we wanted something approaching DVD quality on a disc to keep, we had to create a DivX CD-ROM which used MPEG 4 encoding, MP3 audio and if video bitrate was higher than 700Kbit/sec quality was acceptable. At first we could only play such discs on a computer, later some DivX compatible DVD players could also play these discs. Nowadays BD-R discs prices have dropped but remain much higher than a typical DVD-R or DVD+R disc. If we want Blu Ray quality on a disc to keep, we can make an AVCHD-DVD (DVD disc containing Blu Ray compatible data) which also plays on most Blu Ray players.

    So what I mean, is that we can store some 4K video files in our hard disk and when we have access to appropriate software we can record them on regular BD-R discs or special BD-R XL discs (if our recorder supports them). I am not 100% sure, but I guess all we have to do is create AVI or MKV or MP4 files with HEVC video and AC3 or EC3 audio. To create the AVI version, I would import the source file in VirtualDub and compress the video part with x265vfw codec (HEVC fourcc code). The audio part I would compress it to AC3. If it has to be EC3, I would import it to Adobe Audition, convert to EC3 file and then use AVI Muxer to multiplex the video and audio parts to a 4K Blu Ray compatible AVI. Then I would keep the file in my hard disk until I get my hands on a 4K version of an application similar to MultiAVCHD. For the time being, since I don't have access to 4K material, I work with HD material and produce AVCHD-DVD versions using MultiAVCHD. These discs play flawlessly on my Blu Ray player, so it is as good as it gets. Besides, if the movies originate from an HD TV channel (typical video bitrate 4-5MBps) is not worth it to produce a real Blu Ray disc (15-25 MBps) as I won't notice any difference, so I produce an AVCHD-DVD version and save money on discs. I can enjoy my favorite series and movies with almost the same quality they were broadcasted. I can even resize to SD if I also want a DVD version which would be much better than starting with an SD source.
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    Originally Posted by spapakons View Post
    I suggest doing what we did with previous formats. Back in the days when DVDs where expensive, we gathered some movies in MPG files with DVD specs in our hard disks and even created the relevant VOB files using different tools available. If we wanted something approaching DVD quality on a disc to keep, we had to create a DivX CD-ROM which used MPEG 4 encoding, MP3 audio and if video bitrate was higher than 700Kbit/sec quality was acceptable. At first we could only play such discs on a computer, later some DivX compatible DVD players could also play these discs. Nowadays BD-R discs prices have dropped but remain much higher than a typical DVD-R or DVD+R disc. If we want Blu Ray quality on a disc to keep, we can make an AVCHD-DVD (DVD disc containing Blu Ray compatible data) which also plays on most Blu Ray players.

    So what I mean, is that we can store some 4K video files in our hard disk and when we have access to appropriate software we can record them on regular BD-R discs or special BD-R XL discs (if our recorder supports them). I am not 100% sure, but I guess all we have to do is create AVI or MKV or MP4 files with HEVC video and AC3 or EC3 audio. To create the AVI version, I would import the source file in VirtualDub and compress the video part with x265vfw codec (HEVC fourcc code). The audio part I would compress it to AC3. If it has to be EC3, I would import it to Adobe Audition, convert to EC3 file and then use AVI Muxer to multiplex the video and audio parts to a 4K Blu Ray compatible AVI. Then I would keep the file in my hard disk until I get my hands on a 4K version of an application similar to MultiAVCHD. For the time being, since I don't have access to 4K material, I work with HD material and produce AVCHD-DVD versions using MultiAVCHD. These discs play flawlessly on my Blu Ray player, so it is as good as it gets. Besides, if the movies originate from an HD TV channel (typical video bitrate 4-5MBps) is not worth it to produce a real Blu Ray disc (15-25 MBps) as I won't notice any difference, so I produce an AVCHD-DVD version and save money on discs. I can enjoy my favorite series and movies with almost the same quality they were broadcasted. I can even resize to SD if I also want a DVD version which would be much better than starting with an SD source.
    I'll bet you didn't read much of this thread before posting. Most (or at least some) who replied to this thread already suggested saving UHD video as files on HDDs or optical media while waiting for consumer UHD Blu-ray authoring software.

    Also some of what you suggested is not good practice. You can use AVI for almost any type of video, but AVI was not designed as a container for video codecs which typically use heavy inter-frame compression and very long GOPs like AVC and HEVC. Even if PCs can play such files, it is doubtful that the built-in media player in any UHD Blu-ray player would play AVC or HEVC in an AVI file. Support for TS, MKV or MP4 files is typical, but it is always necessary to check the manual because container/codec support varies. There is no industry-approved consumer authoring format like AVCHD for UHD video yet.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 5th Nov 2017 at 20:14. Reason: clarity
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    You got me! Yes, I didn't read at single reply in this thread, sorry. I didn't mean to create an AVI with AVC or HEVC content to play on a standalone player. This is only the "digital master" (after removing ads, deinterlacing etc) that I will later import into a compatible application to create a standard HD Blu Ray or 4K Blu Ray version. I currently produce AVI files with x264vfw (H264 fourcc) video and AC3 audio which I import into MultiAVCHD to create the final AVCHD-DVD disc to keep. If the AVI file is Blu Ray compliant (AVC video and AC3 audio), MultiAVCHD creates the relevant files without re-encoding. This saves a lot of time and best of all, it keeps original (master's) quality, doesn't produce a 2nd generation (re-encoding) disc. I haven't tried with 4K discs, but I think they will be similar. Just create a compatible file as a "digital master" to feed it in an appropriate authoring application when available. If you make sure the file is compliant to the standard, the application should keep original data and give you the best disc without re-encoding (further loss of quality). Since VirtualDub has many nice features, if I can make a 4K compliant AVI to feed to the application, I would use x265vfw (HEVC fourcc) and AC3 audio. Why bother with MKV? I don't plan to play the AVI anywhere else than my computer or use it as the "master" for the final disc, so compatibility is of least concern. Once I have my disc created, I usually delete the AVI, unless I want to use it for other formats (eg make a standard DVD version in which case I import it in TMPGEnc).
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  11. I don't follow exactly what you are proposing. But consumer software to author DVD and BD has existed for a while. There is no need for hacked solutions. IOW, I already author my 4K content to DVD and BD. Of course, I need to downrez for each format, but with care, the results are often stunning. The 4K digital edits however can only be viewed by some other means, not properly authored UHD BD, which is what this thread is about. As for using BD-R as a form of WORM archiving, I already do that as well. Some have made the assertion that studios want UHD BD to be some form of luxury format that consumers pay a premium for. Given that there are currently multiple ways to view 4K content on 4K TV in 4K besides UHD BD means, IMHO, that studios have failed in this endeavor. But the fact remains that UHD BD is orphaned. I suspect a consumer version will eventually appear on the market similar to BDAV and probably with a cap on the bitrate to prevent straight copying of Hollywood films. It is one of the few reasons I come to this forum anymore. Some rando will post in this thread when a consumer solution pops up.
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    I always try to make my video files AVCHD-DVD compliant so that MultiAVCHD can create the necessary files without re-encoding and reducing quality. But I have used MultiAVCHD some times to work directly on non-compliant MKV files in order to produce an AVCHD-DVD disc. In that case I have to choose compatible settings such as resolution and the encoding bitrate. At the resolution selection I have seen greater than 1920x1080 resolutions, including 3840x2160 or 4096x2160. This means that potentially you can record 4K in AVCHD-DVD format, but haven't tried as I never had a true 4K source and no 4K TV to see the result. Anyone having a 4K TV could try creating such a disc and see if the resulting quality is acceptable and if the disc plays in standalone 4K Blu Ray player. Then please post here to inform us about.
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    Originally Posted by spapakons View Post
    I always try to make my video files AVCHD-DVD compliant so that MultiAVCHD can create the necessary files without re-encoding and reducing quality. But I have used MultiAVCHD some times to work directly on non-compliant MKV files in order to produce an AVCHD-DVD disc. In that case I have to choose compatible settings such as resolution and the encoding bitrate. At the resolution selection I have seen greater than 1920x1080 resolutions, including 3840x2160 or 4096x2160. This means that potentially you can record 4K in AVCHD-DVD format, but haven't tried as I never had a true 4K source and no 4K TV to see the result. Anyone having a 4K TV could try creating such a disc and see if the resulting quality is acceptable and if the disc plays in standalone 4K Blu Ray player. Then please post here to inform us about.
    This is unworkable. UHD Blu-ray uses HEVC. As expected, since AVCHD is AVC only, MultiAVCHD didn't accept my 3840x2160 HEVC source file for AVCHD authoring. MultiAVCHD did accept a 3840x2160 AVC file, and I was able to author a non-compliant AVCHD disc containing 3840x2160 AVC video and AC3 audio, with a 1920x1080 menu. I doubt that a UHD Blu-ray player would be able to make heads or tales of it. This oddity is wildly off-spec for both AVCHD discs, where resolutions exceeding 1920x1080 are forbidden and UHD Blu-ray, where only HEVC is allowed.
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    Some Blu Ray players can also play some video files on a DVD or DB-R disc. Have you tried creating a disc with 4K AVC files and see if the player can play them? You may be surprised!
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    Originally Posted by spapakons View Post
    Some Blu Ray players can also play some video files on a DVD or DB-R disc. Have you tried creating a disc with 4K AVC files and see if the player can play them? You may be surprised!
    LOL No, I would not be surprised. I guess you don't remember, but I already wrote a reply to you stating that some who responded to this thread suggested that many UHD Blu-ray players would play UHD video files on optical media:
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Most (or at least some) who replied to this thread already suggested saving UHD video as files on HDDs or optical media while waiting for consumer UHD Blu-ray authoring software.
    I looked through the user manuals for a few UHD Blu-ray players months ago. Codec and container support varies among UHD Blu-ray players, but either AVC or HEVC were often supported, and support for TS, MKV or MP4 files is common. However, there is no reason to use MultiAVCHD to create an AVCHD disc structure or an MTS file.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 13th Nov 2017 at 15:19.
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