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  1. I'm looking for a free software that will allow me to replace the audio track of a video and leave the audio uncompressed / lossless.

    Specifically, I need to insert a 44100 Hz 24-bit WAV (PCM) file into a video.

    VirtualDub seems to have problems with 24-bit audio, converting it to 16-bit when saving the file. That's really a shame, seeing how it has the option to adjust exactly when you want the audio to start playing. If a software doesn't have this option, then I'd have to edit the audio to match the video, which can be somewhat time consuming.

    AviDemux just causes a very loud screeching noise after inserting the audio.

    I'm using Shotcut, VirtualDub, and AviDemux to edit my videos. All three are great software, but I'd love to also have something that'll allow me to add 24-bit PCM WAV and save it without compressing the audio.

    The final video needs to be good quality H.264/MPEG-4 AVC to upload to YouTube.

    Any advice is much appreciated.
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  2. Member hech54's Avatar
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    As you've already discovered, 16bit? - no problem.....24bit? - problem.
    I replace audio in video files exclusively with AviDemux.
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  3. Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    As you've already discovered, 16bit? - no problem.....24bit? - problem.
    I replace audio in video files exclusively with AviDemux.
    I'm not sure what you mean. Yes I've tried with AviDemux as well, but the 24-bit audio file just leads to a loud screeching noise in the final video.
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  4. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jacobson View Post
    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    As you've already discovered, 16bit? - no problem.....24bit? - problem.
    I replace audio in video files exclusively with AviDemux.
    I'm not sure what you mean. Yes I've tried with AviDemux as well, but the 24-bit audio file just leads to a loud screeching noise in the final video.
    Because it's 24bit.
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  5. Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Originally Posted by Jacobson View Post
    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    As you've already discovered, 16bit? - no problem.....24bit? - problem.
    I replace audio in video files exclusively with AviDemux.
    I'm not sure what you mean. Yes I've tried with AviDemux as well, but the 24-bit audio file just leads to a loud screeching noise in the final video.
    Because it's 24bit.
    Yes, which is why I opened the thread looking for software that will let me do it.

    16-bit is fine for now, but I want to be able to add 24-bit in the future.
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  6. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Maybe some sort of straight muxing software will allow you to do it, some of those thing let you allow anything to anything(almost). Somebody will be along in a little while to suggest one....I don't use them.
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  7. Member Krispy Kritter's Avatar
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    Why all the work for a Youtube upload? They process everything uploaded to their own specs.
    Google is your Friend
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    Originally Posted by Jacobson View Post
    16-bit is fine for now, but I want to be able to add 24-bit in the future.
    What little support there is for PCM in the MP4 container is for 16-bit only. You need a different container format for 24-bit LPCM.
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  9. Originally Posted by Krispy Kritter View Post
    Why all the work for a Youtube upload? They process everything uploaded to their own specs.
    Because it is what they recommend, to upload lossless audio, preferrably 44100 Hz with 24-bit, although 16-bit is acceptable too:

    https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6039860?hl=en

    Of course it gets compressed, but it's better than already compressed audio getting compressed, which can really read to bad results.

    In this case it's classical music so audio quality is important.
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  10. Originally Posted by JVRaines View Post
    Originally Posted by Jacobson View Post
    16-bit is fine for now, but I want to be able to add 24-bit in the future.
    What little support there is for PCM in the MP4 container is for 16-bit only. You need a different container format for 24-bit LPCM.
    Can you please elaborate? Are you saying VirtualDub converts it to 16-bit because of the MP4 container?

    Much appreciated.
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    If the goal is upload to YouTube, then mux to a MOV file instead of an MP4 one.

    OR compress the audio losslessly to ALAC, then you can use the MP4 container safely.
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  12. Originally Posted by El Heggunte View Post
    If the goal is upload to YouTube, then mux to a MOV file instead of an MP4 one.

    OR compress the audio losslessly to ALAC, then you can use the MP4 container safely.
    I must admit I'm a bit confused.

    I'm reading this here: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6039860?hl=en

    Under "Video Profile" it says ".mp4" or ".mov", and the "Audio Profile" lists 24-bit as recommended and 16-bit as acceptable, with the preferable audio codecs being "Linear PCM" and "FLAC".

    Based on that, I understood that 24-bit would have to be compatible with mp4?

    I also remember successfully inserting 24-bit audio in an MP4 some time ago, but this was with "Machete Video Editor" and the trial has unfortunately expired.

    Can anyone please shed some more light on this?
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  13. Originally Posted by Jacobson View Post
    Based on that, I understood that 24-bit would have to be compatible with mp4?
    It is compatible, but open source, free muxers cannot mux uncompressed l/pcm wav into mp4 container . Only mov, mxf, m2ts, mkv for the free variety . So if mov is on the list, use mov . You could use ffmpeg (command line) or some GUI for ffmpeg to do it
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  14. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by Jacobson View Post
    Based on that, I understood that 24-bit would have to be compatible with mp4?
    It is compatible, but open source, free muxers cannot mux uncompressed l/pcm wav into mp4 container . Only mov, mxf, m2ts, mkv for the free variety . So if mov is on the list, use mov . You could use ffmpeg (command line) or some GUI for ffmpeg to do it
    Thanks. As you can see, I'm pretty new to all this.

    Is there any freeware that will allow me to convert this video into MOV and also add the 24-bit lossless PCM WAV?

    Could I pull this off somehow with AviDemux, Shotcut, or VirtualDub?

    I'm also confused which video codec we're talking about here, as YouTube recommends H264.
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  15. I just tried adding the 24-bit audio in a MKV file with AviDemux, and that doesn't work either. All I get is a loud screeching noise.
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  16. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Ridiculous waste of time.
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    For creating Matroska files, prefer MKVtoolnix.

    VirtualDub should have no problem in muxing 24-bit .WAVs into an AVI container through Direct Stream Copy.
    The problem is you have H.264 video, which doesn't go well with AVI...

    As for YouTube "recommendations"... normally you should NOT pay much attention to them.
    As long as Google have decompressors for most audio and video formats, your uploads should be re-encoded without problems.

    When I had a YT channel, I uploaded only AVIs and WMVs... Some of those WMVs contained Lossless WMA at 44.1KHz, and YouTube simply "dealt" with it.
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  18. Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Ridiculous waste of time.
    There is no need for such remarks. If you are not able/willing to help out, please do not contribute to the thread.

    I am new to this, and I have respectfully asked for help, without violating any rules AFAIK.
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  19. Originally Posted by El Heggunte View Post
    For creating Matroska files, prefer MKVtoolnix.

    VirtualDub should have no problem in muxing 24-bit .WAVs into an AVI container through Direct Stream Copy.
    The problem is you have H.264 video, which doesn't go well with AVI...

    As for YouTube "recommendations"... normally you should NOT pay much attention to them.
    As long as Google have decompressors for most audio and video formats, your uploads should be re-encoded without problems.

    When I had a YT channel, I uploaded only AVIs and WMVs... Some of those WMVs contained Lossless WMA at 44.1KHz, and YouTube simply "dealt" with it.
    Thank you. Well, I actually found a freeware to convert from MP4 to MOV, it's called MPEG Streamclip 1.2.

    Now after converting to MOV, is there any known freeware that'll allow me to insert the 24-bit audio?
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  20. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jacobson View Post
    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Ridiculous waste of time.
    There is no need for such remarks. If you are not able/willing to help out, please do not contribute to the thread.

    I am new to this, and I have respectfully asked for help, without violating any rules AFAIK.
    You are wasting your time with this 24/16 bit nonsense.
    We are not new to this. It has nothing to do with rules or respect.
    How is this quest working out for you? So far you've received nothing but opinions(including mine)
    because the problem has not been solved yet....and may never be solved.
    AND....this is only YouTube we are talking about.
    AND AND....unless you can verify that your equipment is 24bit capable all the way through the chain(from file to your speakers/headphones), there
    is a distinct possibility that what you are hearing is actually 16bit.
    Chew on that for a while.
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  21. Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    You are wasting your time with this 24/16 bit nonsense.
    We are not new to this. It has nothing to do with rules or respect.
    How is this quest working out for you? So far you've received nothing but opinions(including mine)
    because the problem has not been solved yet....and may never be solved.
    AND....this is only YouTube we are talking about.
    AND AND....unless you can verify that your equipment is 24bit capable all the way through the chain(from file to your speakers/headphones), there
    is a distinct possibility that what you are hearing is actually 16bit.
    Chew on that for a while.
    It is not nonsense, especially if the final video is complex classical music where every detail matters and everyone will be closely listening more than once, not only from a musical standpoint but also paying attention to the audio quality itself.

    Of course YouTube compresses the audio, but it's better to compress it from 24-bit than from 16-bit. The end result will no doubt be better, which is why I'm looking for the 24-bit solution to insert it in a MOV file.

    Again, if you cannot contribute anything whatsoever except ranting about how I'm wasting time (yours, mine, or someone else's), then please don't visit the thread and don't post in it. It is really as simple as that, so maybe you should chew on that.
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  22. Update: I think I've successfully managed to do it with FFMPEG.

    I'll have to double check some things and then write back.
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  23. Originally Posted by Jacobson View Post
    It is not nonsense, especially if the final video is complex classical music where every detail matters and everyone will be closely listening more than once, not only from a musical standpoint but also paying attention to the audio quality itself.
    Another reason, is that YT stores the original file, and eventually in the future 24bit might be the version streamed. This has occurred several times in YT history, where the original file gets an update for the streaming version. For example right now some original files are getting VP9 and opus treatment. Other files are getting 1080p60 treatment. If you didn't upload the original 1080p60 file in the past, only uploading the 1080p30 version, thinking "oh, youtube only supports 30p", well you missed the boat on that one.

    Of course YouTube compresses the audio, but it's better to compress it from 24-bit than from 16-bit. The end result will no doubt be better,
    Not necessarily better for all types of conversions. If you take control of it, YOU have control over the algorithm and depth conversion, dithering etc...instead of being at the mercy of YT. There are different ways to convert 24bit to 16bit. YT doesn't necessarily use the highest quality algorithms.

    For example, animations are typically done in RGB, and are subsampled to 4:2:0. YT doesn't necessarily do the "best" chroma subsampling conversion, instead more emphasis on speed. If you take control of that operation, the end result is better.

    But as you are an audio content creator or music partner, I would still upload the 24bit version
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  24. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Another reason, is that YT stores the original file, and eventually in the future 24bit might be the version streamed. This has occurred several times in YT history, where the original file gets an update for the streaming version. For example right now some original files are getting VP9 and opus treatment. Other files are getting 1080p60 treatment. If you didn't upload the original 1080p60 file in the past, only uploading the 1080p30 version, thinking "oh, youtube only supports 30p", well you missed the boat on that one.
    Great point, actually. And thank you for suggesting FFMPEG earlier in the thread, because it seems to have worked.

    The only thing bugging me is this: After I open the final file in VirtualDub just to check the audio track under "File -> File Information", this is what it says:

    Codec: pcm_s24le: PCM signed 24-bit little-endian
    Channels: 2
    Sample format: s32 (-> s16)
    Sampling rate: 44100 Hz
    Layout: stereo
    Bitrate: 2116 kb/s


    The "sample format" is confusing me.

    How can I know 100% if I successfully inserted the 24-bit audio?
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    Originally Posted by Jacobson View Post
    ........
    How can I know 100% if I successfully inserted the 24-bit audio?
    ffmpeg -i filename.ext, OR ffprobe, or MediaInfo.

    EDIT: Also:

    Code:
    Sampling rate: 44100 Hz
    Layout: stereo
    Bitrate: 2116 kb/s
    Just do the math: 1411.2kbps x 1.5 = 2116.8kbps
    Last edited by El Heggunte; 28th Jul 2016 at 16:53. Reason: edit
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  26. The vdub decoding pathway might be downconverting the audio, depending on what decoder or input driver you are using. It's opening as float, then downconverting to 16bit

    Also post your commandline (in case you might be doing other things you're not supposed to), and the full workflow history for the audio (how did you get from point A to point B, and which programs)
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  27. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    The vdub decoding pathway might be downconverting the audio, depending on what decoder or input driver you are using. It's opening as float, then downconverting to 16bit
    Hmm, I don't know. You see, when I open the original 24-bit WAV file in VLC player, it says the following under Codec Information:

    Type: Audio
    Codec: PCM S24 LE (s24l)
    Channels: Stereo
    Sample Rate: 44100 Hz
    Bits per sample: 32

    But when I use VLC to examine the file created with FFMPEG, I get this:

    Type: Audio
    Codec: PCM S24 LE (in24)
    Language: English
    Channels: Stereo
    Sample rate: 44100 Hz
    Bits per sample: 32

    As you can see, the main difference is "in24" in the FFMPEG file, and "s24l" in the original WAV. The other difference is the additional "Language: English".

    Do you know what could be going on here?

    Also post your commandline (in case you might be doing other things you're not supposed to), and the full workflow history for the audio (how did you get from point A to point B, and which programs)
    This is what I did:

    ffmpeg -i video.mp4 -i audio.wav -codec copy -shortest output.mov

    It converted the MP4 to MOV and added the audio. The original video had no audio track.

    I'm not exactly sure what the "-shortest" is for, but I got it from this site: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11779490/how-to-add-a-new-audio-not-mixing-into-a-v...o-using-ffmpeg

    I also extracted the audio from the FFMPEG-created file using FFMPEG itself, and it has the exact same file size as the original 24-bit WAV, which is a great sign I think.

    I'm not sure how I can post the full workflow history though.
    Last edited by Jacobson; 28th Jul 2016 at 17:40.
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  28. Originally Posted by Jacobson View Post
    Do you know what could be going on here?
    Not sure what that difference is , probably just metadata and labelling differences


    I'm not exactly sure what the "-shortest" is for, but I got it from this site: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11779490/how-to-add-a-new-audio-not-mixing-into-a-v...o-using-ffmpeg
    That cuts off the file, according to whichever stream is shorter.


    I also extracted the audio from the FFMPEG-created file using FFMPEG itself, and it has the exact same file size as the original 24-bit WAV, which is a great sign I think.
    Yes, that is the "proof" . But definitive proof would be to do a file comparison check eg. md5 or similar


    I'm not sure how I can post the full workflow history though.
    I just wanted to make sure you didn't use programs or workflow step that didn't support higher than 16bit . Then you would really be doing all this for nothing.
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  29. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Not sure what that difference is , probably just metadata and labelling differences
    I checked on Google, and it seems that "in24" is how it works with MOV files, but I could be wrong. I also found this interesting: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/1881


    Yes, that is the "proof" .
    Awesome.

    I just wanted to make sure you didn't use programs or workflow step that didn't support higher than 16bit . Then you would really be doing all this for nothing.
    Well, this is literally it:

    1.) Original videos filmed with Samsung Galaxy S3.

    2.) Cut into sections with AviDemux.

    3.) Edited together with Shotcut, using H264 video codec and "disable audio".

    4.) Audio added with FFMPEG.

    I think that's all okay?

    And thank you very much for suggesting FFMPEG, and for helping out in general!
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  30. That looks ok, but where is the audio from? What are the actual audio steps ?

    Youtube uses the same libraries as ffmpeg to decode, so if ffmpeg can create and decode it, it's very likely YT can as well . Apple has it's own way of doing things, that is sometimes different from the rest of the world
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