A new guide to convert NTSC to PAL without judder!!!

[t0nito]

At least the best way I found using software.

Software requirements:

-Virtualdub
-TMPGEnc
-Avifrate

Ok check this out.

1 Capture your NTSC source in NTSC format if source is from VCR choose 480x480 using VirtualDub make sure you use a codec that allows you to capture interlaced (like MJPEG or Huffy) Or if you already have a NTSC file to convert go to step 2

2. Open your NTSC capture (or file) with VirtualDub

3. Click on Video/filters... Then add the resize filter

4. In new width choose 480 in height choose 576, filter mode Precise Bicubic (A=1.00) and MAKE SURE YOU CLICK ON INTERLACED and ignore their recommendation if you click on show preview you will know why. (If you don't click on interlaced the final video will look very crapy!!!)

5. Click on Video/frame rate... In the inverse telecine (3:2 pulldown removal) box choose Reconstruct from fields - adaptive

6. Save AVI with the huffy codec or MJPEG codec. You can't frameserv because there's more...

---As you may know PAL has 25 fps and this new AVI is 480x576 but 23.96 fps so there's a 4% speed diference so you must...---

7. Open TMPGenc and open the new avi. Click on File/Output to file-> WAV file choose 48 kHz 16bit stereo.

8. Use your favourite audio editing software and speed up the audio in 4%. Save the WAV file.

9. Download avifrate (in the tools section of vcdhelp.com) and open the new AVI file and choose 25 fps as new frame rate. Or use Virtualdub's Frame rate changer.

10. In TMPGEnc open the AVI file and in the Audio source choose the new WAV and reencode the new AVI file to your PAL (S)VCD template.

And there it is. A totally compatible PAL output with out any jerk or judder nor interlacing artifacts. Give it a try.

[HaZZaD]

Hi there..what audio app can i use to speed up the audio..the vid part is simple but i haven been able to find a audio app to speed the audio up to a respectable quality. i have tried winamp and found it wasnt the best at keeping quality. Also tried Be Sweet but couldnt work out how to use it fro the guides...any other simple ones out there?

Cheers,

HaZ

[fantomlord]

Hi there..what audio app can i use to speed up the audio..the vid part is simple but i haven been able to find a audio app to speed the audio up to a respectable quality. i have tried winamp and found it wasnt the best at keeping quality. Also tried Be Sweet but couldnt work out how to use it fro the guides...any other simple ones out there?

Cheers,

HaZ

Use BeSweet...check out Doom9.org: http://www.doom9.org/mpg/avi2svcd.htm
this guide should show you what you need

[Dragonsf]

you can use CoolEdit for stretching/shrinking audio tracks, either conserving speed (thus altering pitch) or conserving pitch (and so altering speed) or conserving none of the above.Within limits, the quality of the result is fine.

[Stinky]

Can I ask one question? Why are you converting? I was under the assumption that any standalone DVD player will play both PAL and NTSC VCD's and SVCD's ... mine does and so do all my friends. Are you sure you even need to do this?

Just curious because I assumed (wrongly) when I first started making VCD's that I had to convert formats. There is a problem with DVD's but not VCD's or SVCD's.

[HaZZaD]

DVD authoring apps only accept 25 or 29.97 fps mpeg2...wont deal with 23.97 hence the need to convert..

HaZ

[bugster]

If your video is 23.97 fps just use pulldown.exe and hey presto, your DVD authoring app will accept it. if it still doesn't then the issue is elsewhere.

Note: pulldown.exe will only work with video only mpgs, not multiplexed streams (AFAIK) so you still need to seperate the audio and video streams.

[Stinky]

Ahhh ok that makes sense. The topic doesn't state DVD authoring though? and since he is stating in his guide to use "44.1 16bit stereo" I would safely assume he's talking about SVCD's or VCD's.

I just see a lot of people talking about converting PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL for VCD's when I don't believe it's necessary.

[HaZZaD]

bugster...theres many ways to convert the video..thats not an issue..the prob i have is getting audio in synch with the video after its frame rate has changed...

On that note can someone please explain how BeSweet works...i have read both the guide here and on Doom9 and neither make sense to me when i get to the Lame config part. Teh Doom9 doc talks about green bottons that i dont even have, and im confused about the input and output files on that page. The vcdhelp guide shows that you have to put input/ouput files into both the besweet and lame config pages...and they are all diff names...im confused..someone want to spell it out in simple english?

HaZ

[HaZZaD]

ok..trying to setup besweet and when i go to press the wav->mp2 button it quickly pops up a dos box saying "Unable to find ssrc interface". I have specified the ssrc path..does anything elsee need to be specified in that section? Im trying to end up with DVD compliant 25 fps audio and my readings shave said that if thats the case, you need not set anything in ssrc section...anyone help?

HaZ

[bugster]

HaZZaD, the point I am trying to make is that is not very often necessary to do NTSC to Pal conversion. Parctically all European DVD players will play NTSC Discs (VCD, SVCD, DVD etc) with no problems and most modern TV's sold in Europe will handle NTSC signals. This saves a lot of effort required to do conversion. If you are unfortunate enough that your player/TV cannot handle NTSC, the you are right that conversion is required. I am sorry that I cant help with BeSweet but I have Soic soundforge Which does a great job of sample rate conversion and time stretch/shrink. Drop me a line if you want any help with it

[TurboRunner]

Hi,

There is another reason unless dvd players don't have a problem
but if you got a few Video clips that you want on one vcd but half are Pal 25fps and the other half Ntsc 29.97fps and you want all video clips on the same vcd do you need to convert to the one standard pal or Ntsc?

[t0nito]

The main reason is like If you have a video in NTSC that you would like to copy to tape to share with your friend and you live in a PAL country you need to do this as PAL vcrs will not record NTSC signals. This is like a software PAL to NTSC converter instead of those expensive harware converters.

[geek rock]

The main reason is like If you have a video in NTSC that you would like to copy to tape to share with your friend and you live in a PAL country you need to do this as PAL vcrs will not record NTSC signals. This is like a software PAL to NTSC converter instead of those expensive harware converters.

or you could just buy a slightly better DVD player that automatically converts PAL/NTSC and save hours of work..

I've got a Mico Celo 80, and that plays PAL and NTSC VCD's and SVCD's, (as well as DVD's) and I can record anything to PAL VHS.

-Mark

[Stinky]

There is another reason unless dvd players don't have a problem
but if you got a few Video clips that you want on one vcd but half are Pal 25fps and the other half Ntsc 29.97fps and you want all video clips on the same vcd do you need to convert to the one standard pal or Ntsc?

nope I put PAL clips and NTSC clips on my VCD's all the time - last night I watched a PAL SurvivorUK episode then an NTSC episode of the Osbournes on one CDR ....no problems at all

only VCR's and DVD's have PAL/NTSC issuues --- I never ever convert PAL or NTSC to watch as VCD/SVCD ... it just doesn't matter

[dvddarren]

is there a way to put a pal and ntsc video clip on 1 dvdr?

[vhelp]

dvddarren,


in ONE burn, ...probably not, but i remember doing a few and my dvd
player had no trouble playing a 25fps and a 29fps clip on one disk.

I have the Apex AD-1500 and it play both PAL and NTSC (convert both)
fine. Clips play smooth.

But, this process isn't new. It's ben around for a while.
It doens't always work for every captures. The REAL test is on those
PANNing scenes. (see jerassik park prev. on directv) after doing this
process and a couple variations of my own methods, I still get the panning
scene jidder or judder as you put it tonito

Basically, there is NO one single process that will work for every project
I've ben searching for this for many months now, to no avail. But, i'll
keep a lookout, he, he...
Oh, case you're curious, my sources are capture Satalitte, even DVD via
my Apex AD-1500 via my DV cam. I've trie w/ DV firewire caps and
my ATW (ati-tv wonder) (not all in wonder) analog, and same results.

tonito, thanks for your avifrate idea. Believe it or not, I was act
ually using it (this app) BEfore the frame change in vdub. ...dahhh!!
Some people can be really stupid some times, (me) , he, he...
Now, I have a bunch of new ideas to run. Ok, i'm off to explore, he, he...

-vhelp

[t0nito]

The main reason is like If you have a video in NTSC that you would like to copy to tape to share with your friend and you live in a PAL country you need to do this as PAL vcrs will not record NTSC signals. This is like a software PAL to NTSC converter instead of those expensive harware converters.

or you could just buy a slightly better DVD player that automatically converts PAL/NTSC and save hours of work..

I've got a Mico Celo 80, and that plays PAL and NTSC VCD's and SVCD's, (as well as DVD's) and I can record anything to PAL VHS.

-Mark

That's true, my Mustek v520 dvd player can output PAL with NTSC disks and vice-versa, BUT the results aren't as good as there is always frame dropping effects.

[HaZZaD]

Bugster..id love to not have to voncert and up until now never have...only reaon i am now is because im trying to creat a dvd project with a 23.97 fps video and it wont accept it...so i have to convert it to 25 or 29.97. Thanks for the responses anyway.

HaZ

[bugster]

HaZZaD, if your source video is 23.97 fps this is the NTSC film standard. In order to persuade your DVD authoring software to accept it, convert to Mpeg using TmpGenc at 23.97. (use the NTCS DVD template but change the frame rate, do not apply 3:2 pulldown here). Demux the audio and video into seperate files (.m2v for video and .mp2 for audio) and use pulldown.exe on the .m2v. Re-multiplex and supply the resulting file to your Authoring software. Pulldown.exe adds flags to the 23.97 fps video to persuade apps that it is really 29.97fps. It does not affect the actual length of the video so it should still be in sync with the audio If your authoring software will still not accept it in this form then the problem almost certainly lies elsewhere. What DVD authoring package are you using?

[raunso]

Great guide. Can't wait to try it out.

But I'm curious, why do you recommend TmpgEnc to downsample the sound or if it's already 44.1, to save the wav-file? I thought VirtualDub was better at this.

Thanks,
Raunso

[bugster]

raunso, there may be a misunderstanding here or maybe I have missed soemthing in this thread but I most certainly do not reccomend TmpGenc to donwsample the audio, its quality for this is poor to say the least. The simplest way, as you suggest, is to seperate the audio and video with virtualdub. In fact, for DVd's I would do this then process only the video with TmpGenc, then let the authoring software multiplex the .wav you saved from vdub with the .m2v output from TmpGenc. Why let TmpGenc do this as the authoring software (well, Mydvd/DVDit anyway) only demux's it again!

[raunso]

Hi..

Quote from the guide (1st post in this thread):

7. Open TMPGenc and open the new avi. Click on File/Output to file-> WAV file choose 44.1 16bit stereo.

It's this step, that I'm talking about.

Raunso

[t0nito]

Hi..

Quote from the guide (1st post in this thread):

7. Open TMPGenc and open the new avi. Click on File/Output to file-> WAV file choose 44.1 16bit stereo.

It's this step, that I'm talking about.

Raunso

Well if your source is higher than 44.1 kHz you don't need to downsample. In this guide I used a captured file from my capture card and usually I capture at 44.1 kHz, but you can use this with whatever source you like. If your original source is e.g. 48 kHz of course there is no need to downsample. 8)

[t0nito]

Ok, I've made a few changes in the guide. Take a look.