HEVC has no present or future, it proved to be a catastrophe.

[Stears555]

Whether H265 has a good future very much depends on the availability of decoding hardware IMO.
I don't really like H265(and also VP9) because it is really heavy, much heavier than H264... so if it were to be popularized, consumer-level TV, recorder and set-top box need to have capable but economical hardware to do it(at least for decoding)

Is there anyone mass-producing H265 decoder chipset? I don't know

and there is the 4K TV factor.
if 4K gets pushed and get popular, there will be incentive to push HEVC also as that helps to keep data rate in check within available bandwidth. If 4K is not that popular, the need for HEVC will also reduce.

HEVC will find some use, but I don't think it will get a bright future as good as H264.

I have no problem with 4K. Ok I have some problems, because the 8K would be better, the technology exist, but it is very far from commercial level. 8K means, you can watch movies close to the same quality level as they were recorded. However, that technology is too expensive for the business policy of the main manufacturers yet. 4K broadcasting via internet or streaming is still problem for countries like the USA Germany or Japan, where the speed of internet is very slow for average users, due to the backward tel.com. infrastructure in these countries. (mobile internet technologies cable or DSL etc..)

[flashandpan007]

I am waiting for successor of AVCHD (-> AVC -> H.264) . Is the successor probably HEVC?

But I want UHD (some say 4k but the width is different if you compare). Anyway, 50p/60p support and timecode like in AVCHD metadata is also on my wishlist.

Will that come?

[LigH.de]

The successor for AVC (H.264) is supposed to be HEVC (H.265). It is already used in the UHD follow-up specs of the Blu-ray, and AVCHD is very similar, just for different media, so I believe an UHD successor of AVCHD using HEVC may also be established.

[flashandpan007]

How long did it take in the past, when AVCHD followed Blu-ray?

[LigH.de]

You expect me to read the Wikipedia for you? ... Both were close, 2006/2007.

[flashandpan007]

Ok

[pandy]

Because it is fact. IT is technically impossible to make good HW encoders.

Well - this your opinion not fact and as obviously you have no knowledge on this area thus your opinion is completely irrelevant.
HW encoders are one of most important elements for every headend - this is fact.
Other topic is how to define HW and how to define good encoder but i doubt that you can provide any useful feedback on this but i will be glad to change my opinion so please try to define what is HW encoder and what means good encoder.

[pandy]

Is there anyone mass-producing H265 decoder chipset? I don't know

There is plenty SoC with HW H.265 decoding, Broadcom, ViXS, Rockchip, Mediatek, it is even funnier - H.265 decoders are on some FPGA'a (Xilinx Zynq for example) as a separate part of silicone. This is only few of them...

[Stears555]

Because it is fact. IT is technically impossible to make good HW encoders.

Well - this your opinion not fact and as obviously you have no knowledge on this area thus your opinion is completely irrelevant.
HW encoders are one of most important elements for every headend - this is fact.
Other topic is how to define HW and how to define good encoder but i doubt that you can provide any useful feedback on this but i will be glad to change my opinion so please try to define what is HW encoder and what means good encoder.

Oh boy...
Good HW encoder? IT was the joke of the year (oh not generally the joke of the year, but it was surely the best joke in the topic of video technology on this site)

What will be your next statement? You can build a car which is faster than the light? Or you can prove that the planet Earth is flat, and only the evil scientists misled the public opinion for centuries with their conspiracy? ))

I don't want to make personal attacks, but I must ask: How old are you? )))


Good new SW encoder: at least 2times higher compression ratio/quality development than the previous generation encoder. H265 can't reach that since 5years. When H264 and especially its x264 variant appeared, x264 produced a leap in compression within 2y development which was much much bigger than the best HEVC compressor the x265 can produce.

[pandy]

Oh boy...
Good HW encoder? IT was the joke of the year (oh not generally the joke of the year, but it was surely the best joke in the topic of video technology on this site)

What will be your next statement? You can build a car which is faster than the light? Or you can prove that the planet Earth is flat, and only the evil scientists misled the public opinion for centuries with their conspiracy? ))

I don't want to make personal attacks, but I must ask: How old are you? )))

How many HW encoders you know? Name at least few of them please.

I know that i'm not English native you seem also to be not English native - this may lead to some misunderstanding so i will try to ask once again.
Please define what means for you HW encoder (not good HW encoder but just HW encoder - i need to know how you will define HW).
Please define what means good encoder (it can be HW, SW or any other flavor encoder but i'm interested to understand what is definition of good encoder).

Reductio ad absurdum mean that you plainly loose dispute by Godwin's rule.

Currently i'm 45 years old and how old you are?

[Skiller]

You can't convince a troll with facts. Stop feeding him already.

Right. Just now I was temped to write a huge reply but then I read LigH's comment and realized there's no point in doing so.

[Stears555]

You can't convince a troll with facts. Stop feeding him already.

Right. Just now I was temped to write a huge reply but then I read LigH's comment and realized there's no point in doing so.

The problem that nobody provided a single reliable reference (in URL) to support the claims and (even laughable) fantasies. Just because somebody make a statement (a simple small-scale entrepreneur with a small miscorsopic villager hillbilly studio) or a teenager boy, or self-appointed expert make a statement, I will not believe it.



I was the only person who used references for history of DVB-T, or about the online media.


Have you ever heard about the FALLACIES IN REASONING? I don't think so. Read about it: http://web.gccaz.edu/~kshinema/FALLACIES.HTML

Itself the make a statement "just because I said it" (like you) doesn't mean argument in a debate.

[pandy]

You can't convince a troll with facts. Stop feeding him already.

Right. Just now I was temped to write a huge reply but then I read LigH's comment and realized there's no point in doing so.

The problem that nobody provided a single reliable reference (in URL) to support the claims and (even laughable) fantasies. Just because somebody make a statement (a simple small-scale entrepreneur with a small miscorsopic villager hillbilly studio) or a teenager boy, or self-appointed expert make a statement, I will not believe it.

The problem is that you not provided any proof for your claim and side to this you completely ignoring reality...



[Attachment 37330 - Click to enlarge]

[Stears555]

You can't convince a troll with facts. Stop feeding him already.

Right. Just now I was temped to write a huge reply but then I read LigH's comment and realized there's no point in doing so.

The problem that nobody provided a single reliable reference (in URL) to support the claims and (even laughable) fantasies. Just because somebody make a statement (a simple small-scale entrepreneur with a small miscorsopic villager hillbilly studio) or a teenager boy, or self-appointed expert make a statement, I will not believe it.

The problem is that you not provided any proof for your claim and side to this you completely ignoring reality...



[Attachment 37330 - Click to enlarge]

There are no HW HEVC encoder which can reach the quality of H264 X264 . This is hard fact.

"you not provided any proof for your claim"
Pfffffffffff
Second, you can't say what you want, everybody can read the whole discussion. You can't delete it
I suggest to read the topic again and again, perhaps it can help to understand it.

[El Heggunte]

...........
There are no HW HEVC encoder which can reach the quality of H264 X264 . This is hard fact.

Yes, but... ¿so what?

That's not sufficient for concluding that "HEVC has no present or future, it proved to be a catastrophe."
HEVC already has a present... and I serious doubt that it will be more ``catastrophical´´ than VC-1, for example...

Second, you can't say what you want, everybody can read the whole discussion. You can't delete it

But Baldrick can delete this thread, if he wants so

[pandy]

There are no HW HEVC encoder which can reach the quality of H264 X264 . This is hard fact.

Hard fact is that HEVC is designed for UHD in area where H.264 is not capable to deliver comparable functionality - it is clear that you completely ignoring fact that H.265 is build around H.264 foundation not opposite to H.264 - H.265 is evolution coding techniques known from H.264.

"you not provided any proof for your claim"
Pfffffffffff
Second, you can't say what you want, everybody can read the whole discussion. You can't delete it
I suggest to read the topic again and again, perhaps it can help to understand it.

You didn't provided any decent paper which can justify your claim - fair - however your opinion is not fact.

And btw you are author in this topic "FALLACIES IN REASONING" - not sure why you created this topic but i'm sure that not for gaining/sharing knowledge.

[Stears555]

...........
There are no HW HEVC encoder which can reach the quality of H264 X264 . This is hard fact.

Yes, but... ¿so what?

That's not sufficient for concluding that "HEVC has no present or future, it proved to be a catastrophe."
HEVC already has a present... and I serious doubt that it will be more ``catastrophical´´ than VC-1, for example...

Second, you can't say what you want, everybody can read the whole discussion. You can't delete it

But Baldrick can delete this thread, if he wants so

But the deletion of this thread is only the interest of 1 user: pandy Who dreamed about the fantastic shocking quality HW HEVC encoder, and those who dreamed about the big future of UHD discs (physical media like discs has no bright future) Just read about it: http://4k.com/news/why-4k-blu-ray-is-has-a-doubtful-future-in-home-entertainment-12053/

[pandy]

But the deletion of this thread is only the interest of 1 user: pandy Who dreamed about the fantastic shocking quality HW HEVC encoder, and those who dreamed about the big future of UHD discs (physical media like discs has no bright future) Just read about it: http://4k.com/news/why-4k-blu-ray-is-has-a-doubtful-future-in-home-entertainment-12053/

You are plainly liar as i never expressed anything that gives you right to claim: "Who dreamed about the fantastic shocking quality HW HEVC encoder" , by this you proved to be a "used car salesman" also you fulfilled all conditions of the Goodwin's law and it allow me to end with overall conclusion that you are video neophyte who practicing strange proselytism but your religion is your problem...

[Stears555]

There are no HW HEVC encoder which can reach the quality of H264 X264 . This is hard fact.

Hard fact is that HEVC is designed for UHD in area where H.264 is not capable to deliver comparable functionality - it is clear that you completely ignoring fact that H.265 is build around H.264 foundation not opposite to H.264 - H.265 is evolution coding techniques known from H.264.

"you not provided any proof for your claim"
Pfffffffffff
Second, you can't say what you want, everybody can read the whole discussion. You can't delete it
I suggest to read the topic again and again, perhaps it can help to understand it.

You didn't provided any decent paper which can justify your claim - fair - however your opinion is not fact.

And btw you are author in this topic "FALLACIES IN REASONING" - not sure why you created this topic but i'm sure that not for gaining/sharing knowledge.

boy,

I played VCD-s with MPEG1 on my PC, I recorded low res TV shows with mpeg2 in 1997, and played DV videos since 1999 which I've recorded that time. I bought my first analog TV card in 1997, I could record even 160 X 120 pixel primitive 15fps videos from the TV. I bought my first DBT-T mpeg2 TV card around 2002. I bough my first camera (VHS tape) in 1991 (when I was 14y), I bought my first CCD camcorder in 1996 I bough my first 3CCD miniDV in 1998. Than I bought my first HDD camcorder in 2005, than I switched to HDV when I ough my HV20, than I switched to AVCHD since 2010.

In the early 2000s I transcoded many rare films and I uploaded them to the internet. Later I started to use torrents to share films. (Yes I know it was a bit illegal, but I'm interested about rare films, which were not available on the market.

I made many of these things when you were only a child, or before your birth. IT is funny for me, when you try to tell the story of MPEG and codecs development

[Stears555]

But the deletion of this thread is only the interest of 1 user: pandy Who dreamed about the fantastic shocking quality HW HEVC encoder, and those who dreamed about the big future of UHD discs (physical media like discs has no bright future) Just read about it: http://4k.com/news/why-4k-blu-ray-is-has-a-doubtful-future-in-home-entertainment-12053/

You are plainly liar as i never expressed anything that gives you right to claim: "Who dreamed about the fantastic shocking quality HW HEVC encoder" , by this you proved to be a "used car salesman" also you fulfilled all conditions of the Goodwin's law and it allow me to end with overall conclusion that you are video neophyte who practicing strange proselytism but your religion is your problem...

Again read it))) http://web.gccaz.edu/~kshinema/FALLACIES.HTML

[Hoser Rob]

The people who don't like HEVC seem to be the same people who preferred xvid over h.264 because they didn't know how to use h.264 and/or their hardware was too old to play new formats.

[Hoser Rob]

The people who don't like HEVC seem to be the same sort of people who preferred xvid over h.264 because they didn't know how to use the h.264 parameters and/or their hardware was too old to play new formats.

[pandy]

boy,

I played VCD-s with MPEG1 on my PC, I recorded low res TV shows with mpeg2 in 1997, and played DV videos since 1999 which I've recorded that time. I bought my first analog TV card in 1997, I could record even 160 X 120 pixel primitive 15fps videos from the TV. I bought my first DBT-T mpeg2 TV card around 2002. I bough my first camera (VHS tape) in 1991 (when I was 14y), I bought my first CCD camcorder in 1996 I bough my first 3CCD miniDV in 1998. Than I bought my first HDD camcorder in 2005, than I switched to HDV when I ough my HV20, than I switched to AVCHD since 2010.

In the early 2000s I transcoded many rare films and I uploaded them to the internet. Later I started to use torrents to share films. (Yes I know it was a bit illegal, but I'm interested about rare films, which were not available on the market.

I made many of these things when you were only a child, or before your birth. IT is funny for me, when you try to tell the story of MPEG and codecs development

boy... story of your life is highly amusing and it is good that you have some video related hobby but obviously you have no clue about professional video technology. For me you a liar and this is sad conclusion for this thread...

[Stears555]

The people who don't like HEVC seem to be the same people who preferred xvid over h.264 because they didn't know how to use h.264 and/or their hardware was too old to play new formats.

HEVC parameters are not more complicated than X264.

[Stears555]

boy,

I played VCD-s with MPEG1 on my PC, I recorded low res TV shows with mpeg2 in 1997, and played DV videos since 1999 which I've recorded that time. I bought my first analog TV card in 1997, I could record even 160 X 120 pixel primitive 15fps videos from the TV. I bought my first DBT-T mpeg2 TV card around 2002. I bough my first camera (VHS tape) in 1991 (when I was 14y), I bought my first CCD camcorder in 1996 I bough my first 3CCD miniDV in 1998. Than I bought my first HDD camcorder in 2005, than I switched to HDV when I ough my HV20, than I switched to AVCHD since 2010.

In the early 2000s I transcoded many rare films and I uploaded them to the internet. Later I started to use torrents to share films. (Yes I know it was a bit illegal, but I'm interested about rare films, which were not available on the market.

I made many of these things when you were only a child, or before your birth. IT is funny for me, when you try to tell the story of MPEG and codecs development

boy... story of your life is highly amusing and it is good that you have some video related hobby but obviously you have no clue about professional video technology. For me you a liar and this is sad conclusion for this thread...

Yes, the young owner of the small*scale enterprise micro studio has really big experience...
Again read it, and you can decide who is the liar. http://web.gccaz.edu/~kshinema/FALLACIES.HTML

According to you, all professional websites about video-technology are liars, because they simply don't support your fantasy)))))

[_Al_]

Stears555 you should be banned, just an opinion, trolling, mixing apples and oranges, bringing some life into forum, but not in a good way I think ...

---who cares how good or bad HEVC is, it IS already part of new standard, remember early days of internet and wmv, you had no choice but encode it! Positive, it was that no one had problem with compatibility, except it sucked quality-wise, now,..., can you think for a second was it bad or good? Anyone on the World using PC and Windows (most) could play that video which was important in those early days.

---who cares about new standard, you can encode into anything you want now, it is a bit different thatn long time ago and wmv era, H.264, or some new "miracle" AV1 if it comes, whatever, do you realize that Hollywood or big boys have its thing to distribute?

---You claim that hardware encoder suck, so why would you care at all about them and what are they encoding into?

---why are you bringing broadcast into this, let those guys broadcast into whatever the hell they please, it has nothing to do with encoding video

---btw yes, Hungarians are geniuses, rest of the World has no idea what is going on, no doubt about that , accept your hockey team really sucks

---every stupid $50 Android box based on latest SoC, for example , released this year would decode HEVC besides other formats, so why would you care what is better or worse? These things play anything. UHD player does not. So what? Let us cry and moan? I think not.

---You keep saying government this and government that, so do you want a higher authority to ban alternatives with its decisive ruling and tell you what the best is ? Some of your relatives might have died in 1956 to prevent that so calm down , step back and breathe.

---Are you a Pro? So what, be a Pro, suck it up and use H.264 or HEVC, what is the problem, give it 10% more bitrate and calm down Compatibility is your issue, be happy that anyone can play it (enyone would play it using official player) . To be disturbed because it is not the best codec is a colossal non-issue.