Correct way to connect a Panasonic ES10/15 as a pass through line TBC

[jimj]

I will be capturing video from my VCR which only has composite out to a ATI 600 USB device. I'm looking to buy a Panasonic ES10 or 15 (whichever I can find cheaper) and I have a couple questions:

1. Do I want to run the audio through the ES10/15 or should I run the audio directly from the VCR into the ATI 600?
2. I assume I should use a S-video connection from the ES10/15 to the ATI 600?

This is how I assume I should have these components wired:
VCR---composite A/V---ES10/15----S-Video and composite audio---ATI 600

[pippas]

This is how I assume I should have these components wired:
VCR---composite A/V---ES10/15----S-Video and composite audio---ATI 600

That's the way I connect my Panasonic DVD Recorder into my capture chain. (Although it's a DMR E55 rather than an ES10/15) Works very well.

[manono]

Me too. I use the ES15 and do it that way to a Canopus box connected to the computer. Make sure to use the S-Video connection in the back of the ES15 as the one in the front doesn't work as a TBC pass-through. My audio goes from the VCR directly to the Canopus box, bypassing the ES15.

[Skiller]

Make sure to use the S-Video connection in the back of the ES15 as the one in the front doesn't work as a TBC pass-through.

Must be a region specific thing. The European/Scart ones do the same processing on all inputs, including the front ones. The rear S-Video and Composite outputs (out, not in) should not be used however due to a "content depending brightness pumping" (German Doom9 Thread with GIF animation) but the Scart out is free of this.

[manono]

Interesting. I haven't proven that 'back-only' statement for myself, but was going by what sanlyn used to say about it - that only one of the outputs worked as a TBC passthrough. As for the brightness pumping, I can't say as I've ever noticed it myself. But the tapes on which I work are of old and not properly cared for movies and the luma often fluctuates anyway.

[Brad]

I've tested the front and back inputs of my NTSC DMR-ES15 and ES25; the TBC is applied regardless which is used.

[manono]

Thanks. Good to know.

[jimj]

Thanks for the replies. Based on these replies it looks like my audio will be fine whether I run it through the ES10/15 or straight into my capture device.

The rear S-Video and Composite outputs (out, not in) should not be used however due to a "content depending brightness pumping" (German Doom9 Thread with GIF animation) but the Scart out is free of this.

If I read the Google translated version of that post correctly only the SCART output is free of this problem. Since US units don't have a SCART connection that would mean there's no way to avoid the brightness pumping with a US ES10/15. I don't understand the technical reason/cause of the brightness pumping, but maybe it only affects European models? If this was a problem with all US units I would be surprised to see so many people recommend the ES10/15.

[Skiller]

If I read the Google translated version of that post correctly only the SCART output is free of this problem.

Correct.

Since US units don't have a SCART connection that would mean there's no way to avoid the brightness pumping with a US ES10/15. I don't understand the technical reason/cause of the brightness pumping, but maybe it only affects European models?

We believe it is related to how the Panas route/amplify the signal after the DAC to their various connectors.
Every European model has a Scart out but not every European model has additional separate S-Video and Composite outs.
The Scart out is the primary connector for the European models, and as such it is unaffected by the brightness pumping. All outputs are active all the time (even if nothing is connected) so any secondary connectors have to be fed by some duplicated/amplified signal and that seems to be the cause for the brightness pumping.

Since the North American models do not have Scart connectors their primary outputs are the Composite and S-Video connectors and therefore they might not be affected by it. I also believe someone would have noticed this in all the years if it was the case.

[jimj]

I've tested the front and back inputs of my NTSC DMR-ES15 and ES25; the TBC is applied regardless which is used.

I noticed in this post that user LMotlow said
"Use input Line 1 if you want the tbc. Some production models have tbc on all inputs, some use only Line 1. Its impossible to tell by looking at the unit."
So it appears that using the back inputs is the safest route, but I'd think it'd be pretty obvious if the TBC wasn't working on the front inputs.

Since the North American models do not have Scart connectors their primary outputs are the Composite and S-Video connectors and therefore they might not be affected by it. I also believe someone would have noticed this in all the years if it was the case.

Thanks for the additional details. I just won a Panasonic DMR-ES15 on eBay, so I hope your "North American models might not be affected" theory is correct.

[manono]

I noticed in this post that user LMotlow said
"Use input Line 1 if you want the tbc. Some production models have tbc on all inputs, some use only Line 1. Its impossible to tell by looking at the unit."
So it appears that using the back inputs is the safest route, but I'd think it'd be pretty obvious if the TBC wasn't working on the front inputs.

Right. I won't go into the gory details but sanlyn and LMotlow are the same person. sanlyn made the point a number of times before leaving and taking most of his posts with him. And LMotlow says the same thing. Almost. The earlier sanlyn often made the blanket statement that the TBC was found only on AV1. However, vaperon800 disputes the claim but, as I said, I don't know and don't much care because I only use the back S-Video connector with no problems.

[usually_quiet]

sanlyn didn't just leave. He was also banned, presumably for deleting nearly all his posts, most of which have since been restored by Baldrick.

[LMotlow]

I won't go into the gory details but sanlyn and LMotlow are the same person.

.....manono said, going into some gory detail.
Nope. El multo incorrecto. Keep guessing.

That might have come from one of several posts like this one, of which I saw several here and on digitalfaq and AVS by various people, re: ES10/15/20:

BTW, this was through the back inputs, for those who have seen posts saying the ES20 TBC functionality is only through the inputs on the back. I haven't tried testing that with my ES10. I just use Line 1.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/319420-Who-uses-a-DVD-recorder-as-a-line-TBC-and-wh...=1#post1982637

I haven't tried testing that with my ES10. I just use Line 1. Before I got an ES10 I went thru two ES20's. Not much of a tbc anyway, but one had tbc on Line 1, another copy had tbc everywhere. Got two ES10's, two ES15's. I'll stick with Line 1.

But, then, I Learned a while back to take this forum with a whole shaker of salt.

[PuzZLeR]

Why do I tune in to such interesting threads so late? You guys are fast.

Do I want to run the audio through the ES10/15 or should I run the audio directly from the VCR into the ATI 600?

No need. Run the red and whites straight through.

Personally, I capture video and audio separately, since some VCRs are better at the other, and just mux and sync with VirtualDub later, and I personally find better quality capturing straight to a good sound card (like Asus) instead of through my ATI 600 USB.

I assume I should use a S-video connection from the ES10/15 to the ATI 600?

Both are effective on my NTSC unit.

This is how I assume I should have these components wired:
VCR---composite A/V---ES10/15----S-Video and composite audio---ATI 600

The rear S-Video and Composite outputs (out, not in) should not be used however due to a "content depending brightness pumping" (German Doom9 Thread with GIF animation) but the Scart out is free of this.

If I read the Google translated version of that post correctly only the SCART output is free of this problem.

I can't say for sure on my model (an ES15) because all along I've been using a proc amp in my chain, which must be correcting any pumping problem like this - if it exists.

My video chain:
VCR -> ES15 -> Proc Amp (I use a SignVideo) -> ATI 600 USB -> PC -> VirtualDub software (all S-Video, except if the VCR I choose has only Composite Out).

My audio chain, which I would use independently, and, if, for any audio cassettes too:
VCR/Tape Player -> Asus Xonar DG sound card -> PC -> Audacity/Goldwave software (all Composite red/white for right/left channels)

As per the front-rear input/output thing, both work just as well on my ES15 NTSC unit. However, like Manono, I could care less even if only one worked as I would just physically set it up this way in my chain, rather permanently, anyway. It's not like we buy these things to actually also be a recorder/burner somewhere else in our house ... ironincally!

That's the way I connect my Panasonic DVD Recorder into my capture chain. (Although it's a DMR E55 rather than an ES10/15) Works very well.

Nice to see there's yet another choice in model.

But, then, I Learned a while back to take this forum with a whole shaker of salt.

When exactly did this "Learned" occur? He he... Sanlyn/Sanlyn 2.0, or not, now you're starting to sound like someone else entirely who is in this Forum.

Tune in next episode to the Chronicles of VideoHelp!

[usually_quiet]

But, then, I Learned a while back to take this forum with a whole shaker of salt.

Since you are a member of this forum, this admonition must be applied to anything you write as well. LOL

I have seen first hand evidence that you can be wrong, and I'm not talking about a matter of opinion/personal preference. I mean a verifiable fact.