JVC: do I need a Dynamic Drum for VHS tapes recorded w 80/90's camcorders?

[LouGee]

I have a bunch of old VHS tapes that were recorded on 2 camcorders:

1989 - 1997: Panasonic CG9806 (full size VHS)
1997 - 2001 Panasonic PVD407 (VHS-C)

All tapes were done at SP speed and all tapes were virgin when recorded, and never recorded/reused over. All tapes are currently stored in a dry place in sealed storage bags to further reduce humidity.

I want to get a top-line JVC VHS-S machine with TBC to play them into my ADVC110 -> Premiere. But do I really need the Dynamic Drum for these tapes? I'm under the impression that the DD was invented mainly for the purpose of using FF/RWD to keep the picture quality -- which obviously doesn't apply to what I'm trying to do.

Here's the catch: some of the later VHS-C tapes started to do a weird "skipping" thing during playback, but not always. Sometimes it would do this skipping when played back on a regular VCR but less when played back within the Camcorder itself. Is this a known problem with VHS-C tapes being played in the "adapter" for playback on a full-size VHS machine? Is it a tape alignment thing? And might the DD have any relevance to correcting this?

[LouGee]

I should also add that afaik, these are the model numbers for the relevant JVC machines:

Dynamic Drum: 7500, 7600, 9500, 9600, 9800, 9900

Non-Dynamic Drum: 7800, 7900, 9911, SR-V10u

(the non-DD machines usually cost less on Ebay, and don't have the issue of the DD getting broken)

[JVRaines]

Dynamic Drum adjusts scanner tilt for better tracking in fast wind modes. Some people say it results in a better picture in normal play mode but I have not seen any reliable evidence for this claim. In fact, DD introduces more parts that can fail in these aging decks.

Your problem is more likely due to the VHS-C adapter. Some adapters are terrible to begin with and even the best change the geometry and tension in ways that can screw up a marginal tape. I do all my VHS-C conversions with an SVHS-C camera.

[lordsmurf]

VHS-C is best done with Panasonic AG-1980 and JVC CP7U adapter.

[LouGee]

DD introduces more parts that can fail in these aging decks.

Thanks, that's my feeling too. If I don't need it, I'd rather avoid the extra potential problems.


VHS-C is best done with Panasonic AG-1980 and JVC CP7U adapter.

Thanks for that too about the Panasonic deck. I did some digging, and I'm finding web-posts elsewhere that say stuff like "JVC S-VHS decks like eat VHS-C tapes" Can anyone confirm? (even the higher-end JVC decks I've mentioned?)

[LouGee]

Wait.... new thought... considering that all my VHS was shot on Panasonic camcorders, might it be better to convert ALL of them (full-size and VHS-C) with the Panasonic AG1980 instead of one of those JVC S-VHS machines mentioned above?

[LouGee]

Ok, based on posts within these 3 old threads, I'm seriously considering getting a Panasonic AG1980 (to play back my tapes made in Panasonic camcorders) instead of one of those JVC's mentioned above;

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/305272-Panasonic-AG-1980P-vs-JVC-HR-S9800-SR-V10U
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/346068-Panasonic-AG1980-Info
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/307394-Panny-1980-vs-JVC-9911-vs-what-s-your-preference-and-why

Does anyone agree or disagree?

[JVRaines]

Panasonic is often recommended as a complement to JVC. Tapes that don't play well in one tend to play well in the other. I have the JVC CP8U adapter and it works fine in my JVC deck. I still use the JVC camcorder for compact tapes — if just to save wear on the deck.

[davideck]

Why not use the camcorder itself for playback? The best playback is often provided by the VCR it was recorded on.

If a TBC is necessary, then that might be a better purchase.

[LouGee]

and JVC CP7U adapter.
I have the JVC CP8U adapter

I have the Panasonic VYMW0009 (Playpak) adapter that came with my VHS-C camera. Does anyone know it it's as good as the JVC adapters? Or do I really need to get a JVC adapter?


Why not use the camcorder itself for playback? The best playback is often provided by the VCR it was recorded on.

I've tried this and I'm also getting that "skipping" thing sometimes with camera playback (though not as bad as with the adpater + VCR). I can play the same sequence back multiple times, and sometimes it'll do it, sometimes not. I don't know what this problem is called. I'm hoping that a TBC VCR will eliminate it completely during playback (anyone have any thoughts on whether it will?)

[Brad]

Is it vertical jitter? (The image shakes up and down.)

You could just attach a short sample of a direct capture; 5 seconds should be enough.

[LouGee]

Is it vertical jitter?

Thanks for that! I didn't know the terminology. I don't have time to go through a tape tonite or tomorrow, but looking at this short youtube clip, the vertical jitter here looks very similar to what I had been seeing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfsotonUjRM

Is vertical jitter the sort of thing that might show up sometimes, and sometimes not, even in the same place on the tape?


I'm doing some research and this thread in another forum had some encouraging words:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/4317-fixing-jittery-video.html

The Panasonic AG-1980P (or comparable PAL model) is suggested for stubborn hard-to-track VHS or S-VHS tapes.

There are also threads here in Videohelp about vertical jitter that also suggest the AG1980, so that's good to know.

[Brad]

Yesterday I captured a 6-hour tape with a Panasonic AG-1980 running to a proc amp then to Philips DVDR3575H (with AG-1980 TBC disabled). After 42 minutes, there was horrible vertical jitter. This portion of the tape was a different recording than the earlier part. I had to stop the capture, manually adjust tracking, and recapture from that point. It happened again during another segment as well, which I didn't notice until after I completed the capture.

I previously captured the same tape using my Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U. At that 42-minute point, the bottom of the image showed grey tracking noise for a few seconds but then the auto tracking cleared it up. Much later on the tape, the auto tracking produced this grey bottom noise throughout an entire 30-minute program. But no jumpiness... from a spot check. I haven't actually watched the whole thing.

VHS is just annoying.

[davideck]

I'm also getting that "skipping" thing sometimes with camera playback (though not as bad as with the adpater + VCR). I can play the same sequence back multiple times, and sometimes it'll do it, sometimes not. I don't know what this problem is called. I'm hoping that a TBC VCR will eliminate it completely during playback (anyone have any thoughts on whether it will?)

Your vertical jitter clip looks like the kind of thing that could be caused by bad tracking. The fact that it comes and goes could imply that the tracking is just a little bit off. Have you tried adjusting the tracking during playback?

I would not expect a TBC to completely eliminate this error.