Stream from PC to HDV Tape Software.

[dellsam34]

Hello everyone, I need to test some HDV decks so I need a pre recorded HDV tape, Unfortunately I don't have one and I don't have a HDV camcorder, I do however have some blank HDV tapes and some HDV files on the computer so I can make my own tape using Sony HVR-M15AU deck and a piece of software that can stream the HDV file back to tape, It's exactly reversing the process that I did few years ago. There is a lot of DV record to tape programs, I have yet to see a HDV software that can stream to tape besides the big $$$$ software such as Adobe premiere.
Any suggestions??

[smrpix]

Most of the big $$$ software have free trials that should get you through your test. You are correct, there is a lot more software capable of capturing HDV than laying it back.

[dellsam34]

Yes I know that they have free trials, It's just a hassle going thru all the installation process for a small job, but I will if I have to.

[dellsam34]

Well I did install Adobe Premiere CC after going thru the painful 45min process of creating a cloud account and installing the software just to find out it doesn't work at least with my deck, When I load a HDV file and choose export to HDV/DV tape nothing happens, it does export to a file though, Capturing works fine with my deck I can control it from premiere and capture successfully, but not exporting to tape.

[aedipuss]

you could try sony vegas pro 13 it works with my canon hv30. never tried it with a deck though.

[dellsam34]

I just installed Sony Vegas but in export tab I don't see tape option:

[aedipuss]

click the tools tab/print to HDV tape

[dellsam34]

Thanks, I will try that tonight.

[dellsam34]

Ok I tried this morning it didn't work; I cannot get the software to record to device even though it detects it - see screen shots, I even tried the option of selecting an existing file from a folder but it is not seeing my file, it is looking only for TS M2T files which a HDV file is not.

Edit: I think I know why it does nothing, Looking at the file path it is looking for Untitled.m2t which I don't have, I don't know why it doesn't take the file that is currently loaded to the main page?
Are the old versions of Vegas can print mpg HDV files, or all print only ts and m2t?

[aedipuss]

my guess is you have non-compliant HDV files, probably came from a mac i'd guess. the only way to get them to tape is to make them compliant by re-encoding them. vegas works perfectly writing to tape with spec .m2t

[dellsam34]

It was a Sony consumer HDV camcorder, So I guess it does pro HDV only. I don't mind re-ecoding my goal is just to create an HDV tape, How do I do that?

[JVRaines]

Edit: I think I know why it does nothing, Looking at the file path it is looking for Untitled.m2t which I don't have, I don't know why it doesn't take the file that is currently loaded to the main page?

Nope, that's not it. Vegas first has to render your project to an MPEG2 transport stream file before it can send it to tape. This dialog is just asking what you want to call the file and where to put it. Check "Delete after print" if you don't need to keep it around.

My guess is that there is a problem with your IEEE 1394 connection. You might try switching to the legacy 1394 driver. Or it may be that your deck is stuck in output mode, which can sometimes be fixed by setting edit points and putting it into record pause.

EDIT: Also found this bit in the manual:

Before connecting the i.LINK cable, set [HDV/DV SEL] and [i.LINK SET] in the [IN/OUT REC] menu. If you perform the settings after connecting the cable, the computer (editing machine) may not recognize the unit correctly or may freeze.

[aedipuss]

dellsam - if it were a direct transfer from the cam tape to computer it would be an .m2t file and vegas would be able to transfer back to tape. did you use something like HDVsplit to capture the original file as it's on the tape? that's the only way vegas or any other program can write it back to tape without re-encoding it.

[dellsam34]

I don't remember what I used back than but I believe it was a direct transfer as it was done in real time, the files are MPEG2 1080x1440 interlaced so I don't know why this is not a compliant HDV format? I will post a sample tonight for you guys to take a look at.

[dellsam34]

I picked up a file from the FX1 that I know I transferred at 1:1 now the file shows up on the browser box but when I select the file I get an error message.

The file is from Sony camcorder, Laptop is Sony with 4pin firewire input, the deck is Sony, Vegas is Sony what could go wrong and yet nothing worked, It must have something to do with Win 7 or Sony just dropped support for HDV recording.

[dellsam34]

I loaded a file to the time line and let Vegas render it and print it to tape, But still a big question mark to why my HDV files from 2 different camcorders one is pro and one is consumer are not compliant with Vegas recording to tape requirement ? Comparing files info with Mediainfo I don't see any difference from my HDV files and the one rendered by Vegas.

[smrpix]

Your screenshots show both 25/50 and 30/60 framerates. Are you sure your footage, your projects and your cameras are all using consistent, compatible settings?

[dellsam34]

Yes 60i, The screen shot above shows 50i is just a mistake, I always select 60i the files are 60i my deck is set to 60i, Looking again at the files the only thing different that I can think of is the time code, My files when they were transferred to computer had to do some losseless cut and stitch and that probably reset the time code, So Vegas looking at the file with no time code as an unknown format. Maybe?

[aedipuss]

whatever you used didn't make compliant HDV. if you look at your screenshot of golden gate bridge info it says vbr. it has to be constant bit rate not variable.

[dellsam34]

whatever you used didn't make compliant HDV. if you look at your screenshot of golden gate bridge info it says vbr. it has to be constant bit rate not variable.

I did not change the files' bitrate that's how they were shot with both consumer and pro camcorders, Maybe you are talking about DV has to be constant bitrate, HDV is an MPEG2 doesn't have to be constant and if that's the case I didn't have an option to change it in the camera menu, at least in the consumer one.
Can you try the attached sample on your end? if it works for you, It might be that the trial version has to render the files to insert the trial watermark.

I just recaptured the rendered file by Vegas from the tape back to the computer using HDV split and it is VBR, Vegas detected the file as a valid format and printed it to tape without rendering, So we can rule out the VBR.

[aedipuss]

i'll download and check it out. but why is it a .ts? HDV captures should be .m2t or .m2ts



edit - it'll be awhile the forum is only uploading at 200k - may take a couple hours to download

[dellsam34]

i'll download and check it out. but why is it a .ts? HDV captures should be .m2t or .m2ts



edit - it'll be awhile the forum is only uploading at 200k - may take a couple hours to download

I think you are referring to AVCHD camcorders, HDV camcorders are MPEG2 either TS or PS at least mine were, Here is the info from the HDV file that has been rendered by Vegas, So lets also rule out the m2t/m2ts theory.

[aedipuss]

sorry that golden gate video is so non-compliant vegas won't even open it. and sorry to inform you, but HDV spec only is 25mbps constant bit rate, nothing else.

[dellsam34]

sorry that golden gate video is so non-compliant vegas won't even open it. and sorry to inform you, but HDV spec only is 25mbps constant bit rate, nothing else.

I just told you the file rendered by Vegas is variable bit rate see above post, You are contradicting yourself.
Read post #20 again. And if you don't believe me, Check this attachment with your Vegas it is VBR not constant and worked fine with my Vegas:

[aedipuss]

i haven't contradicted myself once. this is the standard HDV template in vegas. don't change anything or you make non-compliant video. get it? it's has to be cbr or it can't go back to tape. i don't know what you are checking the file with but none of them are always accurate. for the last 14 years i've own and run a video production house. the HDV standard hasn't changed in all that time. i'm out. maybe someone else with more knowledge can help you.

[JVRaines]

MediaInfo is not the Word of God. It makes mistakes. ffprobe is more reliable.

Video stream data for HDV out from Vegas.m2t:

index=0
codec_name=mpeg2video
codec_long_name=MPEG-2 video
profile=Main
codec_type=video
codec_time_base=1001/60000
codec_tag_string=[2][0][0][0]
codec_tag=0x0002
width=1440
height=1080
coded_width=0
coded_height=0
has_b_frames=1
sample_aspect_ratio=4:3
display_aspect_ratio=16:9
pix_fmt=yuv420p
level=6
color_range=tv
color_space=unknown
color_transfer=unknown
color_primaries=unknown
chroma_location=left
timecode=00:00:00:00
refs=1
id=0x12d
r_frame_rate=30000/1001
avg_frame_rate=30000/1001
time_base=1/90000
start_pts=3003
start_time=0.033367
duration_ts=1363362
duration=15.148467
bit_rate=25000000
max_bit_rate=25000000
bits_per_raw_sample=N/A
nb_frames=N/A
nb_read_frames=N/A
nb_read_packets=N/A
DISPOSITION:default=0
DISPOSITION:dub=0
DISPOSITION:original=0
DISPOSITION:comment=0
DISPOSITION:lyrics=0
DISPOSITION:karaoke=0
DISPOSITION:forced=0
DISPOSITION:hearing_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:visual_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:clean_effects=0
DISPOSITION:attached_pic=0

Note that the bit_rate and max_bit_rate are the same. This is a CBR stream. Now look at Golden Gate Bridge_0001.ts:

index=0
codec_name=mpeg2video
codec_long_name=MPEG-2 video
profile=Main
codec_type=video
codec_time_base=1001/60000
codec_tag_string=[2][0][0][0]
codec_tag=0x0002
width=1440
height=1080
coded_width=0
coded_height=0
has_b_frames=1
sample_aspect_ratio=4:3
display_aspect_ratio=16:9
pix_fmt=yuv420p
level=6
color_range=tv
color_space=unknown
color_transfer=unknown
color_primaries=unknown
chroma_location=left
timecode=00:00:00:00
refs=1
id=0x12d
r_frame_rate=30000/1001
avg_frame_rate=30000/1001
time_base=1/90000
start_pts=3003
start_time=0.033367
duration_ts=5960955
duration=66.232833
bit_rate=N/A
max_bit_rate=25000000
bits_per_raw_sample=N/A
nb_frames=N/A
nb_read_frames=N/A
nb_read_packets=N/A
DISPOSITION:default=0
DISPOSITION:dub=0
DISPOSITION:original=0
DISPOSITION:comment=0
DISPOSITION:lyrics=0
DISPOSITION:karaoke=0
DISPOSITION:forced=0
DISPOSITION:hearing_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:visual_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:clean_effects=0
DISPOSITION:attached_pic=0

The bit_rate is missing, which means this is a VBR stream, which isn't allowed in HDV. (Read what Sony has to say if you don't believe me or aedipuss.)

[dellsam34]

Yes, makes sense now, didn't think mediainfo is that bad, The question now is why the FX1 and HC something camcorders record VBR, was an option in the camcorder that I missed ? I know for a fact that I transferred my tapes as 1:1

[JVRaines]

There is no option to record VBR with an HDV camera. If it's VBR, it ain't HDV.

How come your file is VBR? I dunno. Maybe it really is CBR and the metadata is broken.

[_Al_]

I loaded that Golden Bridge ts in Vegas 8.0c and exported it as HDV again to m2t, it showed "No recompression required".
Vegas 10 could not load it.

Here is that m2t that should be somehow 100% HDV, same video, no re-compression, just run it through that Vegas 8.0c, so you can try to put it on that deck if it works. Btw look what problems you have just to store it. Who would go thru some ordeal again to actually capture it again.
So can you put it to tape, this one or that 40MB sample of yours?

[dellsam34]

I loaded that Golden Bridge ts in Vegas 8.0c and exported it as HDV again to m2t, it showed "No recompression required".
Vegas 10 could not load it.

Here is that m2t that should be somehow 100% HDV, same video, no re-compression, just run it through that Vegas 8.0c, so you can try to put it on that deck if it works. Btw look what problems you have just to store it. Who would go thru some ordeal again to actually capture it again.
So can you put it to tape, this one or that 40MB sample of yours?

Ok, Good to know, I will install Vegas 8 and see if it works, I have no need to print back to tape as I already made a tape that I needed for some other hardware testing but I was just curious to why my HDV backups are not recognized by Vegas 13.

Update:
I installed Vegas 8 and I'm getting the exact same results as Vegas 13, so for me the version didn't matter.
To answer your question the Untitled file that you have attached prints fine to tape on both 8 and 13 versions, What did you do to the original file to make it compliant, I run it myself thru Vegas 8 and it says file unknown, Could you give some more details on how you run it thru Vegas 8 and it recognized it?