Possible to capture closed captions using hardware devices?

[doncaruana]

Is there any software that can be used to capture/extract closed captions with the Hauppauge PVR 60?

I'm trying to capture from my DVR and I have the option to turn on or off closed captions. As near as I can tell, the PVR 60 (using the native software), just records those as a picture, not as a separate stream. (Although I haven't tried ccextractor yet) on them.

Presuming it's as above, is there any other software I could use to capture the captions so it could be extracted? Or is this just strictly a function of the hardware?

[theewizard]

If it's not being displayed, it is not being sent out
No way to capture as a separate stream from DVR

[usually_quiet]

Is there any software that can be used to capture/extract closed captions with the Hauppauge PVR 60?

I'm trying to capture from my DVR and I have the option to turn on or off closed captions. As near as I can tell, the PVR 60 (using the native software), just records those as a picture, not as a separate stream. (Although I haven't tried ccextractor yet) on them.

Presuming it's as above, is there any other software I could use to capture the captions so it could be extracted? Or is this just strictly a function of the hardware?

The HD-PVR 60 doesn't record closed captions. None of the HD-PVR models do, regardless of the connection used or the capture software. They can only record open captions, which is the term for captions displayed on the screen as a part of the picture.

The ability to capture closed captions is a function of the connection used, as well as the hardware. HDMI and component don't carry closed caption data to record. With some of the Hauppauge cards, software matters too, Want closed captions? Capture from S-Video or composite with the Hauppauge HVR-2255 (using WinTV or Windows Media Center) or get a CableCARD tuner and record the transport stream for the channel. Closed captions are in the MPEG user data of the transport stream.

[doncaruana]

Just to be clear, even with a recorded program, if I have CC display on for the box, it shows up, just like live shows. Does that make any difference?

[doncaruana]

Is there any software that can be used to capture/extract closed captions with the Hauppauge PVR 60?

I'm trying to capture from my DVR and I have the option to turn on or off closed captions. As near as I can tell, the PVR 60 (using the native software), just records those as a picture, not as a separate stream. (Although I haven't tried ccextractor yet) on them.

Presuming it's as above, is there any other software I could use to capture the captions so it could be extracted? Or is this just strictly a function of the hardware?

The HD-PVR 60 doesn't record closed captions. None of the HD-PVR models do, regardless of the connection used. They can only record open captions, which is the term for captions displayed on the screen as a part of the picture.

The ability to capture closed captions is a function of the connection used and the hardware. HDMI and component can't carry closed caption data to record. Want closed captions? Capture from S-Video or Composite with the Hauppauge HVR-2255 or get a CableCARD tuner and record the transport stream for the channel. Closed captions are in the MPEG user data of the transport stream.

Sounds like the CC stream is in the recording on the DVR itself, but gets lost by the time it gets to my computer's side of the HD PVR (if not before).

[usually_quiet]

Sounds like the CC stream is in the recording on the DVR itself, but gets lost by the time it gets to my computer's side of the HD PVR (if not before).

Yes, closed captions are stored in the MPEG user data in the recording on the DVR. ...but since the DVR's HD connections don't carry closed caption data, the only way to view closed captions and watch an HD picture is to have the DVR display them.

[doncaruana]

The ability to capture closed captions is a function of the connection used, as well as the hardware. HDMI and component don't carry closed caption data to record. With some of the Hauppauge cards, software matters too, Want closed captions? Capture from S-Video or composite with the Hauppauge HVR-2255 (using WinTV or Windows Media Center) or get a CableCARD tuner and record the transport stream for the channel. Closed captions are in the MPEG user data of the transport stream.

How about component video? I could have gone with the 1512 vs the PVR 60 which would have given me component video recording but I really like the quality I'm getting out of the PVR 60.

But...since we're past that...what's the absolute cheapest solution I could have to be able to capture the closed captions? My cable box has component, composite, and hdmi. It even has a couple of digital audio outputs.

[usually_quiet]

The ability to capture closed captions is a function of the connection used, as well as the hardware. HDMI and component don't carry closed caption data to record. With some of the Hauppauge cards, software matters too, Want closed captions? Capture from S-Video or composite with the Hauppauge HVR-2255 (using WinTV or Windows Media Center) or get a CableCARD tuner and record the transport stream for the channel. Closed captions are in the MPEG user data of the transport stream.

How about component video? I could have gone with the 1512 vs the PVR 60 which would have given me component video recording but I really like the quality I'm getting out of the PVR 60.

But...since we're past that...what's the absolute cheapest solution I could have to be able to capture the closed captions? My cable box has component, composite, and hdmi. It even has a couple of digital audio outputs.

Closed captions aren't present in a component video signal. I already told you that. Analog closed captions are present only in composite video, S-video and analog channels delivered by RF. The original HD-PVR cannot capture closed captions from composite. The hardware is incapable of doing it.

The Hauppauge HVR-2250/2255 can capture closed captions from its composite and S-video connections using WinTV 8. I have one. According to one member here, the WinTV-HVR-1950/1955 can capture closed captions, with the right drivers: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/339483-DVDs-With-No-Closed-Captions-Hauppauge-HVR-1...=1#post2112659

However there is a chance that your cable box won't produce a signal from any of its analog connections and HDMI at the same time.

[SHS]

Is there any software that can be used to capture/extract closed captions with the Hauppauge PVR 60?

I'm trying to capture from my DVR and I have the option to turn on or off closed captions. As near as I can tell, the PVR 60 (using the native software), just records those as a picture, not as a separate stream. (Although I haven't tried ccextractor yet) on them.

Presuming it's as above, is there any other software I could use to capture the captions so it could be extracted? Or is this just strictly a function of the hardware?

It not even remotely possable with any HD Video Recoder
The only way to do is enable CC for direct rendering on top of the video and capture it that way
I work with Hauppauge Dev to make this happing all ready with 1st HD-PVR and component video signal + composite video for extracting cc signal at the same time but it was way to buggie so it end up in the trash bin.
And it not even possable with HDMI.
The only way of doing is you have capture the a/v data steam which has everything enbeded in the steam sorry but your pettey much SOL.

[gll99]

I've posted this a few times before but it's not an easy answer:

I use 2 separate capture devices and a Graphedt filter graph to start both captures at once. One is a bt878 pci tuner card to capture only the cc data to a raw/bin Mcpoodle file from the composite input and the other the Hauppauge 1212 or 1512 (HDMI) for the video and audio. ccextractor then converts the raw cc to srt subs. Then I match the cc start time and mux the 2 files using TSMuxer. It's not a one step process but it works well.

I also have a Kworld (KW_UB445-U) OTA (including a svideo/composite-rca) to usb capture device ($20 variety). It captures imbedded cc with the OTA 1080i and 720p mpeg which can be extracted with ccextractor. Although I can't see why not, if I built a graph for it, I've never tested the svideo/composite to see if I could capture only the cc to a raw format from a pvr or cable box similar to the pci tuner card and still capture the video and audio with the Hauppauge. It might be an option for someone who doesn't have a standard pci slot for a card but wants to do the same as I do.

I'm not aware of any one step solutions.

[doncaruana]

I've posted this a few times before but it's not an easy answer:

I use 2 separate capture devices and a Graphedt filter graph to start both captures at once. One is a bt878 pci tuner card to capture only the cc data to a raw/bin Mcpoodle file from the composite input and the other the Hauppauge 1212 or 1512 (HDMI) for the video and audio. ccextractor then converts the raw cc to srt subs. Then I match the cc start time and mux the 2 files using TSMuxer. It's not a one step process but it works well.

I also have a Kworld (KW_UB445-U) OTA (including a svideo/composite-rca) to usb capture device ($20 variety). It captures imbedded cc with the OTA 1080i and 720p mpeg which can be extracted with ccextractor. Although I can't see why not, if I built a graph for it, I've never tested the svideo/composite to see if I could capture only the cc to a raw format from a pvr or cable box similar to the pci tuner card and still capture the video and audio with the Hauppauge. It might be an option for someone who doesn't have a standard pci slot for a card but wants to do the same as I do.

I'm not aware of any one step solutions.

I'm ok with 2 step. I also found an old post by usually_quiet (https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/363840-Extract-closed-captions-from-PVR?p=2317348&v...=1#post2317348) that seems to outline all this. Is the only way to use that by windows media center? Cause I can get a diamond hd 750 pretty cheap. Coax isn't an option for me, but composite and s-video are.

[gll99]

I'm using a similar graph with xp sp3. The full graph image is pretty wide so I don't know how clear it will look posted here

[doncaruana]

I'm using a similar graph with xp sp3. The full graph image is pretty wide so I don't know how clear it will look posted here

what capture software are you using? I'm hoping somewhere there exists a combination of graphedit + diamond hd 750 + windows 7 x64 that I can use to grab something that I can then use ccextractor to pull the closed captions, even if I have to do a separate capture "run" from the video.

[usually_quiet]

I'm ok with 2 step. I also found an old post by usually_quiet (https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/363840-Extract-closed-captions-from-PVR?p=2317348&v...=1#post2317348) that seems to outline all this. Is the only way to use that by windows media center? Cause I can get a diamond hd 750 pretty cheap. Coax isn't an option for me, but composite and s-video are.

That graph is roll-your-own MPEG-2 capture software for the ATI TV Wonder 600 HD USB. It runs in GraphStudio. It doesn't capture closed captions by themselves. It captures closed captions along with the MPEG-2 video. The closed captions would be retreived from the mpg file with ccextractorgui. I have never made a graph that captures raw closed captions by themselves from this device.

[doncaruana]

I'm ok with 2 step. I also found an old post by usually_quiet (https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/363840-Extract-closed-captions-from-PVR?p=2317348&v...=1#post2317348) that seems to outline all this. Is the only way to use that by windows media center? Cause I can get a diamond hd 750 pretty cheap. Coax isn't an option for me, but composite and s-video are.

That graph is roll-your-own MPEG-2 capture software for the ATI TV Wonder 600 HD USB. It runs in GraphStudio. It doesn't capture closed captions by themselves. It captures closed captions along with the MPEG-2 video. The closed captions would be retreived from the mpg file with ccextractorgui. I have never made a graph that captures raw closed captions by themselves from this device.

I was actually fully-expecting it to be part of a stream that I could then extract with ccextractor (see previous post). The key for me is getting a stream with it in there!

Pardon my ignorance, but what does "roll-your-own mpeg-2 capture software" mean? Is that just basically whatever will work with the device (in your case, the 600, presumably in mine the 750 would work the same)?

[usually_quiet]

I'm ok with 2 step. I also found an old post by usually_quiet (https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/363840-Extract-closed-captions-from-PVR?p=2317348&v...=1#post2317348) that seems to outline all this. Is the only way to use that by windows media center? Cause I can get a diamond hd 750 pretty cheap. Coax isn't an option for me, but composite and s-video are.

That graph is roll-your-own MPEG-2 capture software for the ATI TV Wonder 600 HD USB. It runs in GraphStudio. It doesn't capture closed captions by themselves. It captures closed captions along with the MPEG-2 video. The closed captions would be retrieved from the mpg file with ccextractorgui. I have never made a graph that captures raw closed captions by themselves from this device.

I was actually fully-expecting it to be part of a stream that I could then extract with ccextractor (see previous post). The key for me is getting a stream with it in there!

Pardon my ignorance, but what does "roll-your-own mpeg-2 capture software" mean? Is that just basically whatever will work with the device (in your case, the 600, presumably in mine the 750 would work the same)?

"Roll-your-own" is the same thing as "do-it-yourself". The boxes in the graph are DirectShow filters originating from WDM device drivers for the capture device, plus Windows, and sometimes other software installed on the computer. GraphStudio and GraphEdit are software development tools which allow someone to test how various DirectShow filters work together without writing any code. This makes it possible to "run" the graphs within GraphStudio or GraphEdit to use them as capture software.

There is some similarity in the basic design of the graphs from one device to the next, but the WDM device driver filters available for each device are different (the name is a little different, available pins are a little different, properties pages are different). The selection of other filters available on each Windows PC are also a little different.

I didn't mention this option because 75% of those who want to capture something have no interest in doing anything this geeky. They are only willing to use standard capture software with a GUI.

[doncaruana]

"Roll-your-own" is the same thing as "do-it-yourself". The boxes in the graph are DirectShow filters originating from WDM device drivers for the capture device, plus Windows, and sometimes other software installed on the computer. GraphStudio and GraphEdit are software development tools which allow someone to test how various DirectShow filters work together without writing any code. This makes it possible to "run" the graphs within GraphStudio or GraphEdit to use them as capture software.

There is some similarity in the basic design of the graphs from one device to the next, but the WDM device driver filters available for each device are different (the name is a little different, available pins are a little different, properties pages are different). The selection of other filters available on each Windows PC are also a little different.

I didn't mention this option because 75% of those who want to capture something have no interest in doing anything this geeky. They are only willing to use standard capture software with a GUI.

Definitely out of my depth here but I am a true geek anyway! I have a diamond 750 on the way and once it gets here, I'm going to dive in and see if I can use all the info you've posted here to do what I need to do. Never used graphedit/graphstudio before so there will be learning involved!

[gll99]

I'm using a similar graph with xp sp3. The full graph image is pretty wide so I don't know how clear it will look posted here

what capture software are you using? I'm hoping somewhere there exists a combination of graphedit + diamond hd 750 + windows 7 x64 that I can use to grab something that I can then use ccextractor to pull the closed captions, even if I have to do a separate capture "run" from the video.

In my example it's the filter graph that does the capture when it runs so I don't use a separate software.

The 1st device in the graph is the Hauppauge 1512

The 2nd device (Conexant) in the lower part is a generic bt878 pci analog only capture card which uses wdm drivers to capture from a svideo or composite source.

When you run the graph (in my case) graphedit activated manually (or from a vb program I wrote) it starts both captures. The way I created the bt878 capture section it only captures the vbi (cc) to it's own file. I don't need the analog video since I'm capturing the HD video with the Hauppauge (In the top part of the graph). It also plays the video as it captures from the Hauppauge but the last part after the splitter in the Hauppauge chain could be left out if a display window isn't needed.

Each graph will be a bit different since we don't have the same hardware drivers or software directshow drivers installed.

When you build the graph in graphedit for the 1st time you will be able to select the inputs, outputs and formats yourself by clicking on the boxes and/or the pins. For example in box 1 for the Hauppauge 1512 driver I was able to choose between an analog source (composite, component) or hdmi. Once I select hdmi and save the graph it remembers the input. For the "Conexant" driver in part 2 of the graph it is the generic driver of my bt878 analog capture card I was able to select whether the input source is from the tuner, composite or svideo.

The only HD captures I've seen that imbed the cc data with the mpeg video is the OTA captures I did with the KWorld usb device and I believe that's a special case for OTA not available with cable HD sources. Unfortunately this device will only accept HD from OTA so I can't prove it. The breakout cable which allows other sources are only for analog svideo and composite. I've never looked for win7 drivers for my device but there are probably more modern versions of my Kworld that operate with Win7 and it may be possible to build a graph just to capture the cc data from the analog output of your pvr/box in a separate pass if that is what you want. That part of the graph is the simplest to build since it's only about 4 boxes. But remember I've never tried to build a graph with my Kworld since I'm using the bt878 card to capture the raw cc for now.

btw) As far as I can tell the Hauppauge 1212 driver (I don't have a composite dongle for the 1512) doesn't expose the vbi selection whether the input is from a component or composite source. It's possible that none of their models do and that's why I use a separate analog capture device to obtain the raw cc data.

[gll99]

Your usb diamond hd 750 and Haup pvr 60 should work. I decided to run a bit of the test with my not exact but similar equipment and it worked fine. You can probably run them separately or at the same time based on my experiment.

1st I connected the composite-out from my cable box to the Kworld breakout cable's composite-input and made a test graph to see if I could capture the vbi data.



The circled parts are for visual display purposes only and are not needed to capture the raw cc data. I could have combined them to play the cc as an overlay on the video using a different renderer but didn't bother for the test since I'm not too interested in the composite analog video.

This worked fine so I expanded the graph to see if capturing from 2 usb sources would work ok. The top part is the Haup 1212 from component to capture the 1080i video and audio to .ts format. The second is the Kworld usb device using composite video from the cable box to acquire just the cc data. This test runs using the component and composite simultaneously from my cable box outputs going to 2 separate usb capture devices.



This generated 2 files. I extracted the raw cc with ccextractor gui to generate an srt file. In the gui as input options, I chose ... raw (McPoodle's) instead of autodetect and in output1, srt (Subrip) as the format. I then muxed the 2 files with TSMuxer v2.6.12 and adjusted the font to my liking. To my eyes, the start time required no adjustment in either ccextractor gui or tsmuxer for this short sample.

As you research the subject you may come across a few problems. As I recall from the original MCPoodle thread on the subject of using graphs for capturing cc there was need of a specific filter file called dump.ax to write the output files. Some file writer filters didn't work with either the HD output format or the raw CC data I'm not sure which but I use it for both. You may have already seen this and maybe it's included with the graphedit installer but in any case I've attached a copy.

DUMP_ax.rar

You can register the filter manually by running the following in a command prompt. Just make sure the filter is in the same directory as shown in the command prompt console box

regsvr32 dump.ax /s

[doncaruana]

Finally got the 750 and I'm not sure if I'm on the right track. Does this look like it's remotely close? I tried a quick run with it and got a zero byte file. (sorry about the huge mess of a file - don't know how to get rid of it).

[gll99]

I use the CC Decoder filter in my graphs (part of ksproxy.ax). On my system it's listed under "WDM Streaming VBI codecs". I don't know what role the "Closed Caption Analysis Filter" you have in its place does in your graph. As I said earlier I also use the Directshow (Dump.ax) filter named "Dump" to write the output.

Also the Tee sink filter I use in the analog capture portion of my graphs for vbi is not a splitter. I don't know if it matters. All I know is what works for me. On my system it's under WDM Streaming Communication Transforms and it's called Tee/Sink-To-sink Converter. It's also part of the ksproxy.ax filter.

[doncaruana]

I use the CC Decoder filter in my graphs (part of ksproxy.ax). On my system it's listed under "WDM Streaming VBI codecs". I don't know what role the "Closed Caption Analysis Filter" you have in its place does in your graph. As I said earlier I also use the Directshow (Dump.ax) filter named "Dump" to write the output.

Also the Tee sink filter I use in the analog capture portion of my graphs for vbi is not a splitter. I don't know if it matters. All I know is what works for me. On my system it's under WDM Streaming Communication Transforms and it's called Tee/Sink-To-sink Converter. It's also part of the ksproxy.ax filter.

Don't have the CC Decoder filter - apparently it's been removed (I'm on Win 7x64) according to this. I'm actually already using dump for my output, but I don't have a replacement for the cc filter. The native software that comes with this thing only captures mpg and no cc stream in there.

I replaced the Tee sink filter with yours and I found an "ArcSoft VBI Codec Filter" which has VBI as the input and both teletext and closed caption as the output. I tried that and still got a zero byte file. I actually tried the teletext output from the closed captions analysis filter and got a file but ccextractor didn't find anything.

[godai]

i look this , very interesting i dont see yet here.

''I am hard-of-hearing and I have been searching for the 4 player/recorders that are supposed to decode the captions and send over HDMI. I have found the Panasonic DMR-EZ28K, DMR-EZ485V but can't find the other 2 models. There are supposedly 4 models that work in displaying captions on HDTV from box source. Would any of you know the other two models? or any new players? I know I can view them over analog or component, but that defeats the HD purpose.
Only confirmed models please.''


http://www.alldeaf.com/threads/new-hdmi-capable-cc-decoder.78615/


http://www.docaption.com/

[godai]

hey guys i find a working graph!

i use a mix of things, one i have two usb , one aver volar max, and ati wonder hd 600

i was looking capture cc for a long time but just now i try in deep


i wish find a way to make scheduler for capture. scheduler on graphstudio is limited.

[doncaruana]

hey guys i find a working graph!

i use a mix of things, one i have two usb , one aver volar max, and ati wonder hd 600

i was looking capture cc for a long time but just now i try in deep


i wish find a way to make scheduler for capture. scheduler on graphstudio is limited.

Will definitely have to try this later when I get home!! Thanks!!

[usually_quiet]

I use the CC Decoder filter in my graphs (part of ksproxy.ax). On my system it's listed under "WDM Streaming VBI codecs". I don't know what role the "Closed Caption Analysis Filter" you have in its place does in your graph. As I said earlier I also use the Directshow (Dump.ax) filter named "Dump" to write the output.

Also the Tee sink filter I use in the analog capture portion of my graphs for vbi is not a splitter. I don't know if it matters. All I know is what works for me. On my system it's under WDM Streaming Communication Transforms and it's called Tee/Sink-To-sink Converter. It's also part of the ksproxy.ax filter.

Don't have the CC Decoder filter - apparently it's been removed (I'm on Win 7x64) according to this. I'm actually already using dump for my output, but I don't have a replacement for the cc filter. The native software that comes with this thing only captures mpg and no cc stream in there.

I replaced the Tee sink filter with yours and I found an "ArcSoft VBI Codec Filter" which has VBI as the input and both teletext and closed caption as the output. I tried that and still got a zero byte file. I actually tried the teletext output from the closed captions analysis filter and got a file but ccextractor didn't find anything.

Teletext isn't used in N. America, so you won't get any usable output from the teletext pin.

You may or may not be able to capture raw closed caption data from the CC pin without capturing video along with it. I have tried but have not found a combination of filters that works for capturing the just the raw closed caption data from ATI TV Wonder 600 HD USB.

[godai]

I use the CC Decoder filter in my graphs (part of ksproxy.ax). On my system it's listed under "WDM Streaming VBI codecs". I don't know what role the "Closed Caption Analysis Filter" you have in its place does in your graph. As I said earlier I also use the Directshow (Dump.ax) filter named "Dump" to write the output.

Also the Tee sink filter I use in the analog capture portion of my graphs for vbi is not a splitter. I don't know if it matters. All I know is what works for me. On my system it's under WDM Streaming Communication Transforms and it's called Tee/Sink-To-sink Converter. It's also part of the ksproxy.ax filter.

Don't have the CC Decoder filter - apparently it's been removed (I'm on Win 7x64) according to this. I'm actually already using dump for my output, but I don't have a replacement for the cc filter. The native software that comes with this thing only captures mpg and no cc stream in there.

I replaced the Tee sink filter with yours and I found an "ArcSoft VBI Codec Filter" which has VBI as the input and both teletext and closed caption as the output. I tried that and still got a zero byte file. I actually tried the teletext output from the closed captions analysis filter and got a file but ccextractor didn't find anything.

Teletext isn't used in N. America, so you won't get any usable output from the teletext pin.

You may or may not be able to capture raw closed caption data from the CC pin without capturing video along with it. I have tried but have not found a combination of filters that works for capturing the just the raw closed caption data from ATI TV Wonder 600 HD USB.

i just try with ati wonder 600 hd , im able to get cc too

working with hvr 1600, ati wonder 600 hd, and aver volar max

[usually_quiet]

I built a similar graph, which didn't work for me. I already boxed up everything, and don't want to set it all up again to try a new graph just to satisfy my curiosity. I have no need to capture CCs separate from video at this point.

[gll99]

@doncaruan
I'm on XP but maybe you can still register this version of ksproxy.ax. It came with the wdm drivers for my old bt848/bt878 ATI TVWonder card. That's probably why it's still on my system even though the card has been in a box for a few years. I have to rar or zip it to load it here.

ksproxy.rar

A also have an older copy that came with the Directx9 sdk

ksproxy from DX9 sdk.rar

Might be worth a try if nothing else works.

[godai]

@doncaruan
I'm on XP but maybe you can still register this version of ksproxy.ax. It came with the wdm drivers for my old bt848/bt878 ATI TVWonder card. That's probably why it's still on my system even though the card has been in a box for a few years. I have to rar or zip it to load it here.


[Attachment 36662 - Click to enlarge]

A also have an older copy that came with the Directx9 sdk


[Attachment 36663 - Click to enlarge]

Might be worth a try if nothing else works.

you not get delay in subtitles? i just try capture .ts and .raw, and i get delay in subtitles.