Playback issues with 60fps videos, or maybe else, help

[mindblowing]

Hello guys, this is my first post here.

I'm experiencing occasional stutter when watching 4K (even 720p/1080p @ 60 FPS) videos both on YouTube and files downloaded on my SSD, with MPC-HC. On YouTube (Chrome), I've been dropping frames on heavier videos. The likes of 4K/60P, but the ones that are 4K/24/30P seem to be perfect with 0 drops. The 60FPS (even 720p/1080p) ones are a different story.

My CPU is Intel Core i7 6700K, and as far as I know, it supports smooth playback at 4K and 60 frames per second. My internet connection is also pretty good ~60-80mbps. I also want to note that I'm using the integrated graphics card on the CPU, as I do not have a dedicated one currently.

I opened Task Manager 5 minutes ago, and I noticed that every time there's frame drops, my CPU usage spikes up. Please, take a look at this screenshot:

http://postimg.org/image/r9pnl6f4v/full/

Why does this happen? Isn't the CPU powerful enough to play 4K/60P buttery smooth? Why the spikes?

A few quick notes - all system drivers updated, latest bios, no overclocks, everything's stock, no other tabs in Chrome, no other apps running, @ High Performance, CPU temps are perfect ( low 20s, even 18-19c when Idle - when watching those videos - no more than 50-60c). Tried other browsers - no change. Tried flash - worse.

I just noticed that even on videos that are 720/1080 @ 60FPS it stills drops a lot of frames, even though CPU usage is like 10-15%... I even tried switching the codec - from VP9 to MP4/VC1 (through an YouTube extension), and it still drops frames. So it mustn't be the codec either. It doesn't matter if it's full screen or not. I guess there's ALSO a problem with the videos being 60 frames per second. I just ran a 4K@30P video for 40 minutes on repeat and there wasn't a single frame drop, so yeah.. what the hell.

https://youtu.be/bhFTsEYyFiA - A video example that drops frames in YouTube. It also stutters on the computer with MPC-HC.

Can anyone clarify if the 6700K is/isn't powerful enough to play 4K60P perfectly (on its own)? Maybe I need a dedicated graphics card too, in order to play those video smoothly? Because if the iGPU is helping, which I assume it is, since Hardware Acceleration is enabled (and when I disabled it, clips got completely unwatchable).. this should mean that it's not strong enough to help out the CPU. Which leads to the conclusion (if that's true) that you definitely need a dedicated graphics card for stutter-free playback and no dropped frames, especially at 60P. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I hope that I've been clear enough with my issue and I want to thank in advance anyone who might chime in!

[Dougster]

Are you using the 64 bit version of Chrome? And if you are then try another browser.

[flashandpan007]

Video plays fine and very smooth in 60p with newest firefox 45.0.1, what kind of player do you use, HTML 5 or flash?

[flashandpan007]

I must also say that 4K HFR (here 60p) is only available as WebM, test the HTML5 Player ...

[mindblowing]

@Dougster @flashandplan007

Hello and thanks for replying!

I tried Google Chrome 64bit - no change. I've tried Firefox, Opera, IE, Edge - no change. I'm using HTML5, because it seems to be the only one that supports 4k @ 60FPS. When I force the use of mp4/avc1 instead of VP9 - there's no option for 60FPS, only up to 30FPS.

I've also tried Adobe Flash and it's worse. I also want to note that I just tested another random video which was 4K but 30FPS and it didn't drop a single frame for 2 hours. 0/200,000 frames.

I think the problem lies somewhere in those 60FPS videos, because even at 720p or 1080p I get frame drops, if they're playing with 60FPS.

I want to mention again, that I do experience this lag with 60FPS videos even when they're playing from my hard drive. So I'm pretty sure that it's not a YouTube/online problem.

I am open to any other possible suggestions.

Thanks again!

[flashandpan007]

What is the refresh rate of your monitor?

[mindblowing]

I'm using a DVI-D Cable and here are the specs of the monitor:

http://postimg.org/image/ppqxs5io7/

In Graphics Properties it says 60hz, so that must be it.

Thanks!

[flashandpan007]

Video framerate of 60p is normally 59.940, try 59 Hz setting in drivers, if the monitor supports it, I use MPC-HC / MPC-BE which supports Fullscreen automatic refresh rate change. If monitor only is 60p you're out of luck or you buy a monitor-tv like me.

[mindblowing]

What do you mean I'm out of luck if the monitor is 60hz? Please, elaborate. Thanks!

[flashandpan007]

To get smooth playback you must use the matching refresh rate to the framerate of the video otherwise it will be noticeable judder. Just take a 50p video and play it on a computer with a standard monitor which is only capable of 60 Hz which is exacty 60.000 Hz.
You will see motion artefacts, when constant movement is on video like trains or at pans.
In the past I searched a notebook which is capable of other refresh rates but I couldn't find one. The thread must still be here. Tomorro, I live in bavaria and I'm tired, I give you aome more things like a good testvideo player configuration for testing it a bit.
I invested so much time in video technique so I think I should give other people some information.

[mindblowing]

Okay man! I will be watching my thread for sure. Have a good night!

[flashandpan007]

At first a 50i or also called 25i. Same thing, different name. The 50i indicates that the video has 50 fields per second, that means you have the motion resolution of 50 Hz, but the fields are not complete frames per seconds, these are fields. One field are the uneven lines the following fields has the even lines of one frame. The 50 fields are stored in 25 frames, so the picture has two different fields in one frame.
The 25i means that the file has 25 frames but is interlaced which is the same information, if you know about the stuff.

To get this video played smooth we first watch it at 60 Hz for comparison -> the pan is jerky.
At first we check, if the equipment supports different refresh rates like 50 Hz here:


If there is only 60 Hz, we should try a HDMI connection. DVI-D and HDMI uses the same signals, but HDMI supports HDCP and supports all audio formats you can bitstream to your receiver like I do, DTS-HD MA, DTS-HD HR, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, PCM, ..
I had used another monitor in the past which only supported 60 Hz over DVI but all refresh rates over HDMI, so worth a try. If that doesn't help, you're out of luck and must look for another monitor-tv or TV.

23 Hz is for 24000/1001 -> 23.976p
24 Hz is for 24.000 -> 24p
25 Hz is for 25.000 -> 25p but we don't use it
29 Hz is for 30000/1001 -> 29.970p (in general called 30p) but we don't use it
30 Hz is for 30.000 -> 30p but we don't use it
50 Hz is for 50.000 - 50p and also for 25p and also for 50i/25i
59 Hz is for 60000/1001 - 59.940p, 30000/1001 -> 29.970p (in general called 30p) and for 60i/30i
60 Hz is for 60.000 -> 60p

i is for interlaced
p is for progressive

i must be deinterlaced because otherwise you will see horizontal line artefacts


for easy beginning we use MPC-HC:
see here:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/377498-Is-smooth-motion-a-myth-%28aka-how-to-retain...=1#post2437088


For trying Firefox HTML5:
please visit:
https://www.youtube.com/html5

Are all formats checked? If not let me know there is a setting to adjust that in firefox.

[mindblowing]

Hello again, thanks for taking the time to help me out!

First - I got an HDMI cable. Now I have more options, look - http://postimg.org/image/m3ub71w9v/

Which one do I choose from the list? Currently it's on 59hz.

Then, I installed MPC-HC from your link. All V-Sync options enabled. I also checked "Enable YADIF".

Some of the videos still stutter sometimes, because when I click CTRL + J the green and red line are not always together, look -

http://postimg.org/image/m4ibyscnt/full/

Here's another one, which is 23.976FPS, I think it doesn't stutter, but look at the lines -

http://postimg.org/image/7hj2o4y3v/full/


Also, can you give me a video sample to test? I think it would be best, in order to see where the problem is.

We'll deal later with YouTube. I want to fix it on my computer right now, at least.. then we can continue.

Thanks again! Waiting for your reply!

[KarMa]

Yadif is a software based deinterlacer and tends to be very demanding in real time, putting the load completely on your CPU. Usually best just to let the LAV Filters take care of any needed deinterlacing, which will be offloaded onto your GPU. And most 4K content I've seen is progressive anyway.

In the LAV Video properties window, I would try using "DXVA2 (native)" as the hardware acceleration as it may help more than the Intel Quicksync. When I change the decoder settings, I find I have to close and restart the program for the changes to take effect. If it makes it worse, just change it back.

In the LAV Video change log for version 0.68.0 they list

- NEW: VP9 DXVA2 Hardware Acceleration

[mindblowing]

Yadif is a software based deinterlacer and tends to be very demanding in real time, putting the load completely on your CPU. Usually best just to let the LAV Filters take care of any needed deinterlacing, which will be offloaded onto your GPU. And most 4K content I've seen is progressive anyway.

In the LAV Video properties window, I would try using "DXVA2 (native)" as the hardware acceleration as it may help more than the Intel Quicksync. When I change the decoder settings, I find I have to close and restart the program for the changes to take effect. If it makes it worse, just change it back.

In the LAV Video change log for version 0.68.0 they list

- NEW: VP9 DXVA2 Hardware Acceleration

Hello!

It's DXVA2 Native in the settings. How do I install the new version of LAV so that it updates the one in MPC-HC?

Also, aren't those supposed to be checked, because they're not - http://postimg.org/image/511v95r4n/

One more thing - is it at all possible that my CPU is damaged/defect, if I experience those random stutters? Or it's definitely a software issue?

And do you by any chance have any 60P video sample that I can test, which is not borked in any way?

Thank you!

[flashandpan007]

http://postimg.org/image/7hj2o4y3v/full/
refresh rate is at 59 Hz but video is 23.976 -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down
That's the reason for the grafic with the lines

You have integrated Intel HD grafics 530 which supports all refresh rates needed, but your monitor doesn't seem to support 23Hz or 24 Hz modes.

http://postimg.org/image/m4ibyscnt/full/
Can you please provide a MediaInfo log, so I can look at the specs. Insert the text here. This issue is the difference of 60.000 vs 59.940 which stutters at about every 41 seconds.

[flashandpan007]

http://www.aktiv-verlag.com/~webvideos/testvideos/2009/sony/Sony_CX520.MTS
Here's the 50i/25i sample which you can test to play at "deinterlaced 50p" which should look very smooth.

[mindblowing]

http://postimg.org/gallery/eqzo5gti/b5f2f1f5/

Here's MediaInfo from 3 clips. How do I play your video? Do I need to change the Hz?

Also, http://postimg.org/image/c8ut0vwp9/

But there are no options other than 60hz in MPC-HC - http://postimg.org/image/mjzrjqq75/

I changed my monitor's refresh rate to 50p and it played your video smoothly, yeah. Look - http://postimg.org/image/pu8ysdcmj/full/

Do you have any 60FPS videos that I can test?

I don't quite get it. Do I have to change my monitor's refresh rate every time I watch 50/59/60FPS videos, in order to play them smoothly?

This is awful, if it's true.

Also, I still don't understand why I'm dropping frames on YouTube, in every video that's 60FPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLHMDVmUVVA

Am I the only one here dropping frames on this video? It's 30 seconds, 100% pre-loaded, and I get a dozen dropped frames (1080-60p), look

http://postimg.org/image/l4yka7vyf/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LRXLU9l9rs - This one is 4K@60P, pre-buffered, around 20-30 dropped frames, it's only 1 minute long. I'm not doing anything else on the PC.

Look - http://postimg.org/image/7k3ngq7pj/full/

Google Chrome 64 bit.


Either the videos I'm watching are totally screwed, or something's going on with my PC.

[flashandpan007]

https://forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36165&d=1457976101
No, that would be awful, click on the checkbox above the red box and click on a refresh rate to change it automatically. The Devs of MPC-HC AND MPC-BE added for me delay timer you can set up to pause playback till refresh rate is done.

The video with 60.000 fps should be played at 60 Hz mode, if you use these settings in https://forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36165&d=1457976101 except for 23Hz and 24 Hz, because your monitor doesn't seem to support that. MPC-HC or MPC-BE already adjust the right refresh rate for you.

One file of yours is variable framerate, you won't be able with the best equippment to get full smooth playback, because the video is coded like that.


On my HDDs I have found a very nice file in technical view with 60.000 fps and 3840x2160p UHD. These file was encoded by guys who know what they are doing (!!)
http://distribution.bbb3d.renderfarming.net/video/mp4/bbb_sunflower_2160p_60fps_normal.mp4
With that file you should on every computer or player get perfect smooth playback at 60Hz which every PC can.

[mindblowing]

Well, I may be wrong or tired haha, but I think those settings work for me - the bunny video runs great! I can't see it glitching anywhere.

The problem with YouTube stays though.. can you check out those videos that I posted from YouTube? Do you have any idea why there are frame drops? And ultimately, do you think there's a problem with my processor/a hardware problem, or not?

And also, can you recommend the best possible combination for a video player and codecs? Is there a guide anywhere on how to setup MPC-HC for optimal performance and smooth playback?

And another question. How will you explain the following - I'm watching a 4K video on YouTube, and even though it's loaded enough, and there are no frame drops - I will still see some lag from time to time? It's not from the video, because If I replay the same part, it won't lag.

Oh I forgot, is there a way to check if there are any dropped frames while watching videos in MPC-HC? Because I don't see an option like that.

[flashandpan007]

best player: MPC-HC with internal LAV Filters or MPC-BE with external LAV Filters, but also the built in are very nice. BEWARE: Don't install K-Lite codec pack or any other codec pack, you don't get your pc clean after.
with LAV Filters you can play about 99,9 % of all videos. That'S enough. If someone think to use a very rare codec, then must also know that many people can't play the file. Just use my settings in the linked Thred and finetune your preferred settings in MPC-HC. You can also giv madvr a try, but I personally don't use, I just took a look at it, it'S nice but I don't need it.

What does Chrome say on: https://www.youtube.com/html5


I take a look at the youtube videos ...

[mindblowing]

http://postimg.org/image/v19u2ks1t/ - Chrome

It happens in all other major browsers - Firefox, Opera, Edge, IE. If I force the mp4 codec in YouTube, the dropped frames are less. If I use the default VP9, they're more.

Which version of MPC-HC do you think is better, 32bit or 64bit?

[flashandpan007]

you won't need the 64 bit version, but a 64 bit application is generally better. Since you can use external filters and some are 32 bit only you have to use 32 bit version. I used 64 bit in the past, but now I only use 32 bit and to be honest, I don't see a difference. Use what you want

[mindblowing]

Is there a guide to set-up MPC-HC or I should just use the settings you gave me?

Or, if it's better, I'm going to set-up MPC-BE with external filters. Should I follow this how-to https://cyberraiden.wordpress.com/2014/08/25/media-player-classic-black-edition-x64-x8...s-lav-filters/ ?

Or there's a better one?

Thanks!

[flashandpan007]

To be honest - I never looked for tutorials. If you know the video technique things you must know you can set it up on your own.

[mindblowing]

@flashandpan007 - Thanks for the help you provided, it's appreciated! The problem with YouTube stays, but at least I managed to get them kind-of-working on my computer.

[flashandpan007]

I checked the youtube videos, some of them have strange framerates which no refresh rate on earth can match. These are coded wrong. No way to play them perfectly smooth, there are some jumps during playback.

[mindblowing]

Can you tell me which ones have the jumps so I can check again? Do you get dropped frames too?

[flashandpan007]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLHMDVmUVVA is wrong coded, but I don't get dropped frames of any of the videos in firefox. It only stutters during playback at some points. Have you another computer with a dedicated grafics card? If yes try this pc to test playback with dropped frames.

[mindblowing]

As far as I've tested, the Stats for Nerds option in Firefox doesn't count the dropped frames. It works in Chrome, you can try there. I don't have a spare graphics card, unfortunately.