ATI TV Wonder 750 USB AVI capture

[fuga]

I just got the ATI TV Wonder 750 USB device. It came with the ArcSoft Total Media 3.5.
From the specifications I read that it should be possible to capture VHS video in several formats, like AVI, MPEG, MPEG4, etc. using this device and software. However I only manage to capture i mpg. I can not find any setting to select output capture format.
Any idea to make it work?

[PuzZLeR]

You're going to hate me.

First of all, the 750 is a bad product IMO. Also, the software bundled with it is also bad.

Then again, pretty much all software bundled with capture devices is usually bad. Try capturing with VirtualDub (free and no installation required).

File -> Capture AVI
Device -> Do you see it here?
Video -> Compression -> Select a codec, depending on what you've installed on your PC.

I'd say try this first. If your video is fine, and no AGC issues, none of the many dropped frames, good quality, etc, then you're on your way with the 750. Somehow, I doubt that. But I could be wrong.

[lordsmurf]

Yes, the 750 is not a quality product like ATI's of earlier generations.

That was a post-AMD device, and was a clone of something else from what I recall. It wasn't really ATI at that point. ATI was bought in 2006, and anything released in 2007 onwards was disappointing.

[fuga]

I am trying to start the capture i virtualdub but only get a black screen and the message "Unable to start video capture". I have installed the huffyuv codec. I have uninstalled the bundled ArcSoft software that came with the USB 750. Any idea what I have done incorrect?

[Brad]

What OS? You can try these CD drivers, if you didn't already use this version.


https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/355946-Diamond-ATI-TV-Wonder-HD-750-No-video-source...=1#post2240942

[fuga]

It is Win 7 64 bit OS.
I will check the suggested solution.

[fuga]

Edit: Tried the suggested solution and uninstalled the original ATI driver and replaced it by the one suggested in the referred thread (Compro Technology, Inc. 6.14.10.404). The USB is recognised in virtualdub as ATI AVStream Analog Capture (DirectShow). Still just a black screen and the error message "Unable to start video capture".
Since I am a complete nowbie on virtualdub - is there anything else I should do to capture my VHS video?

[PuzZLeR]

I'm just wondering if you did indeed install the HuffYUV codec properly. I know that on Win7 it needs a manual installation.

Some suggestions:

Try another codec that is installed in your system, if any, just to see if you see or get any video.

Try and install HuffYUV manually if you didn't. It's rather easy to do, and best outlined here:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-conversion/2193-cannot-install-huffyuv.html#post11627

Or, if the above doesn't work for you, you can try other lossless codecs, such as Lagarith, or UT.

[fuga]

Thanks PuzzLeR.
I checked, and you might be right that the HuffYUV codec was not propoerly installed.
I did not try to reinstall it, but I did install the Lagarith codec instead. It still doesn't work with the ATI 750 USB. Same message as before. So, I tried to use my other USB which is the Hauppauge USB Live2. This one works with the Lagarith codec but I am not satisfied with the video capture quality. Just for comparision I opened the captured avi file in my trial version of Sony Movie Studio and rendered it as a MPEG2 video. When I compare this output with the AVCHD I get using the Hauppauge software the AVCHD file is much better IMO. I still would like to capture in avi for edit/archive and then render in a compressed format.

Can someone help clarify this - does the Hauppauge USB Live2 actually do hardware encoding first and then I do the encoding i virtualdub based on the already compressed file, that could explain the lower quality from virtualdub. Actually just as if I used the AVCHD file as input to virtualdub?

Would the ATI USB 750, if I managed to get it working in virtualdub, deliver better capture quality?

[jagabo]

If VirtualDub doesn't show huffyuv in its list of codecs it wasn't installed correctly. Same with any other codec. Seeing a black picture in the preview window usually indicates you haven't chosen the right input (s-video, composite, tuner...) in the capture driver.

[Brad]

The Hauppauge USB-Live2 doesn't feature a hardware encoding chip, nor has anyone ever claimed it does anything other than software-based compression. Why are you comparing AVI->MPEG-2 vs AVC and declaring that the AVI is worse? Just compare the actual AVI.

What does the Video Decoder tab of Video -> Capture Filter show? Just attach a screenshot after connecting your source and selecting the correct input.

[fuga]

Is this the screen your asking for? I hope it indicates the settings even though it happens to be installed with swedish language...
I guess I have the default settings.

[Brad]

I meant for the ATI 750, not the USB-Live2. The "Videodekoder" tab specifically.

[fuga]

Ah, sorry. Here is when I have selected the ATI 750.
The numer for the "Identified lines" jumps from approx 300 to 625.

[Brad]

Tried the suggested solution and uninstalled the original ATI driver and replaced it by the one suggested in the referred thread (Compro Technology, Inc. 6.14.10.404). The USB is recognised in virtualdub as ATI AVStream Analog Capture (DirectShow). Still just a black screen and the error message "Unable to start video capture".

I'm a bit confused. On the Win7 x64 machine I'm using at the moment, Device Manager shows Hybrid TV Stick. The provider is ATI Technologies, version 6.15.10.501, signer Microsoft Windows Hardware Compatibility Publisher. That's the version I directed you to (the attached RAR file).

[PuzZLeR]

Thanks PuzzLeR.
I checked, and you might be right that the HuffYUV codec was not propoerly installed.
I did not try to reinstall it, but I did install the Lagarith codec instead.

I personally like HuffYUV, but others will also recommend Lagarith as a good choice. Lagarith can be more efficient in file size, but would need a bit more horsepower provided your computer can handle it. All other things being equal, quality should be the same.

It still doesn't work with the ATI 750 USB. Same message as before. So, I tried to use my other USB which is the Hauppauge USB Live2. This one works with the Lagarith codec...

Maybe the 750 simply doesn't support Lagarith, or maybe the color space, or other settings (ex: resolution, NTSC/PAL, etc) you're using. Not sure since I got rid of the 750 a while ago, but I can confirm I have a USB-Live2, and it works with VirtualDub and lossless and full 480i in NTSC.

...but I am not satisfied with the video capture quality. Just for comparision I opened the captured avi file in my trial version of Sony Movie Studio and rendered it as a MPEG2 video. When I compare this output with the AVCHD I get using the Hauppauge software the AVCHD file is much better IMO.

You really are comparing two totally different things here as explained. Also, I personally wouldn’t use an editor today for encoding. How did it look in raw lossless from VirtualDub?

I still would like to capture in avi for edit/archive and then render in a compressed format.

This is a recommended high-end workflow here.

Can someone help clarify this - does the Hauppauge USB Live2 actually do hardware encoding first and then I do the encoding i virtualdub based on the already compressed file, that could explain the lower quality from virtualdub. Actually just as if I used the AVCHD file as input to virtualdub?

Just to add, the USB-Live2 is not a hardware encoder like, for example, the WinTV-HVR-1955 would be – at least not declared as such, and the latter would indeed demand less resources from your computer. But that’s where the advantages end. The USB-Live2 is fully capable of formats up till 4:2:2. This alone can be a quality increase over the 1955 which is MPEG/4:2:0 based. Furthermore, hardware encoder chips as stand-alone encoders - at least at the consumer level - simply will not perform as well as a device that uses resources from your computer - the result tends to be softer and less detailed with hardware encoders.

Would the ATI USB 750, if I managed to get it working in virtualdub, deliver better capture quality?

The 750 may be sharper on some scenes, such as when you may look at grass or hair, but there are way too many other issues with it, like oversharpening, color bursts, field messups, dropped frames, etc. I simply didn't like it at all. I'd stick with the USB-Live2.

Here's a small sample from when I had it to give you an idea of just one of the problems with it. This happened too frequently.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/331817-Best-MPEG-2-Capture-Device?p=2056893&viewful...=1#post2056893

I'd say disregard the 750 and stick with the USB-Live2.

[fuga]

Thanks PuzZLeR.
I think I'll follow your advice and stick with the USB-Live2. Dealing with the 750 seems to require some effort and the USB-Live2 appears to be rather good after all.
What does it mean that "the USB-Live2 is fully capable of formats up till 4:2:2"? Is this referred in the codec settings where I (for the Lagarith codec) have the MODE options: RGB, RGBA, YUY2 and YV12.
Any of the other codec options I should set?

What would you say is the "best practice" settings to use as a baseline for best possible video capture with the USB-Live2, based on your experience?

I get your point regarding the quaility comparision I did. Maybe a bit "unfair".
What I notice on the lossless capture using the Lagarith codec is some jagged surface on moving objects.
Playing the video in VLC with deinterlace on, makes it look much better. Does that mean I should leave it that way in terms of capture? I read that deinterlace filter may reduce the video sharpness. Or should I use other settings to prevent ths artifact?

[PuzZLeR]

Thanks PuzZLeR.

Sure.

I think I'll follow your advice and stick with the USB-Live2. Dealing with the 750 seems to require some effort and the USB-Live2 appears to be rather good after all.

Even if/when you do get the 750 to "work", I believe your headaches will not end there. You can try for the sake of an academic effort, but, in the long run, my good money says you'll end up using the USB-Live2 over the 750.

Take a look at this thread.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/331817-Best-MPEG-2-Capture-Device?p=2056893&viewful...=1#post2056893

Also, if you search around, you’ll also see it’s not just lonesome me that’s had issues with the 750.

What does it mean that "the USB-Live2 is fully capable of formats up till 4:2:2"?

It means more color information over, say, capture devices limited to 4:2:0 (which formats like DvD uses). With 4:2:2, you will capture twice the vertical color resolution, hence more quality.

Is this referred in the codec settings where I (for the Lagarith codec) have the MODE options: RGB, RGBA, YUY2 and YV12.

Lossless YUY2 4:2:2 is more than sufficient for VHS, but also good for post-processing the harsh signal, and encoding to deliverable formats, afterwards.

RGB / YUV 4:4:4 is overkill.

Any of the other codec options I should set?

I really do mean to put together some sort of "best of" guide of methods used around forums for VHS capture, but, for the moment, you can look at the first few posts here:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/365390-How-do-I-use-VirtualDub-to-capture-8mm-camcorder-VHS-tapes

What would you say is the "best practice" settings to use as a baseline for best possible video capture with the USB-Live2, based on your experience?

Similar to the above link, but I find the case of the USB-Live2’s proc amp for sharpness rather elastic, so I like to put it to the limit for VHS. Experiment.

Lagarith settings should be similar to HuffYUV’s in that example.

I get your point regarding the quaility comparision I did. Maybe a bit "unfair".

Yes, leave it to accountants to fudge results.

What I notice on the lossless capture using the Lagarith codec is some jagged surface on moving objects.
Playing the video in VLC with deinterlace on, makes it look much better. Does that mean I should leave it that way in terms of capture? I read that deinterlace filter may reduce the video sharpness. Or should I use other settings to prevent ths artifact?

Keep in mind, what you capture, and what you will use to view, may be two different things: acquisition and delivery.

Acquisition:
Capture in lossless, with 4:2:2, and retain all interlacing. Do all edits and processing in this format. When done, this is your Source. Again, do not deinterlace - you will lose valued chroma and luma information (hence, sharpness too). Archive it this way (forever).

Delivery:
Using the Source above, encode to whatever format fits your playback needs, ex: DvD, BD, YouTube, DivX, mobiles, etc. If you prefer to have a display/decoder deinterlace it for you, or prefer to deinterlace at the encode level, for playback, that's fine, as long as you keep your Source, and keep it interlaced.

Having said that, deliverable formats like DvD, and BD shouldn't need deinterlacing. For most other deliverable formats, such as H.264 in MP4/MKV or DivX/Xvid, etc, you may want to deinterlace if the display is unforgiving. And, if you do deinterlace at the encoding level, a good way for higher quality is with a good deinterlacer like QTGMC, and double the frame rate to maintain the field info and for much better quality.

But, no matter what you do, keep the Source separately, and keep it interlaced.

[fuga]

Thanks again.
Is "Capture in lossless, with 4:2:2" achieved by selecting the compression option in Virtualdub described as "No recompression: YUY2"?

[jagabo]

Is "Capture in lossless, with 4:2:2" achieved by selecting the compression option in Virtualdub described as "No recompression: YUY2"?

That's lossless but not compressed. If you select a lossless compression codec like huffyuv, lagarith, or ut video codec, and configure it to work in YUY2 mode, you will get a smaller file with no loss of quality. That will cut the file size down to about 1/2 to 1/3 the size of the uncompressed YUY2 file.

[PuzZLeR]

Just realized this.

Take a look at this thread.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/331817-Best-MPEG-2-Capture-Device?p=2056893&viewful...=1#post2056893

Please disregard the double posting of this link here (and now a third time). I was posting it also in vaporeon800's recent thread, where it was relevant there too, and lost track of where I also posted it before.

I was having a stack overflow moment.