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  1. Member
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    Hi all,

    I have been using Sony Vegas to make videos for a couple of years now, and I have rendered all of my videos with the Sony AVC/MVC setting using the 'Internet 1280x720p-30' template.

    I've always customized the template. For example, most of the footage I am using is old so it's in the 4:3 aspect ratio so I change the frame size to 640x480 (I have rendered some 720p videos before but still the same problem). I change the frame rate to 50fps and I set the audio to AAC, 44Hz, 320kbps.

    So, I have 2 problems...

    In my videos I sometimes put dialogue (sports commentary) over the top of the music. I use the audio envelope editing tool to slightly lower the music volume so the commentary can be heard clearly, but I don't lower the volume too much because I still like to hear the music well enough to create emotion, suspense, etc.

    The problem is, in the Sony Vegas timeline it all sounds perfect, exactly how I want it to be, but once I play the file after rendering, the music (when the dialogue comes in) is so much lower than it sounds in Sony Vegas... But the thing is, it is not constant. As soon as the commentator stops speaking for even a second the volume instantly increases but then 1 second later the commentator speaks again and the volume lowers again. In the Vegas timeline the music volume is constant throughout the entire time the dialogue is playing.

    Now, the other problem is, I have noticed that the audio is slightly out of sync with the video (whether I add dialogue or not). It is minimal, but enough to be annoying because syncing the audio with the video is what editing is all about (at least for me). Once again, everything is perfect in the timeline but not so when it is rendered.

    Also, the other strange thing is that the syncing issue differs with different media players. For example, with VLC it is barely noticeable, it is there, but not much. Same goes with MPC, it is out of sync, but very minimal. With Windows Media Player however, it is almost a full second out of sync, which is a lot in these types of videos.

    Now, as you can see I have tried multiple media players, 6 in total (VLC, MPC, WMP, iTunes, Quicktime and even my friend's TV) and all have the same problem except one. The exception being Quicktime. For some reason Quicktime plays the files perfectly... No fluctuation in audio levels and no synchronization issues.

    So, even after testing my files on so many different media players, I was sure that I wasn't doing anything wrong to be causing this issue, because after all, there was at least one media player playing my files correctly. So I decided to try Sony Vegas' other MP4 rendering option 'MainConcept AVC/AAC' and it had no problems at all on any of the media players.

    So now I am just very confused... why on earth would the MainConcept AVC/AAC setting work perfectly fine in all the media players, but the Sony AVC/MVC setting only work properly with Quicktime?

    It just makes no sense to me. The only difference I made when rendering with MainConcept AVC/AAC was the framerate, and that is only because for some reason MainConcept AVC/AAC does not allow you to select 50fps.

    So basically, I am just wondering if anyone can possibly explain to me why this would be happening? What is the difference in these two settings that makes one work perfectly fine and the other not so perfectly? According to MediaInfo the 2 files are exactly the same (except the framerate).

    If anyone can help I would really appreciate it.

    Thanks in advance!
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  2. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Just a quick thought.

    Is there a 25p template you could modify ? My guess is that that the template you are using expects 30 fps video whereas you are importing 25 fps.
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    Yes, there are some 25fps templates but they are not MP4.

    I am importing 50fps video.

    Both the Sony AVC/MVC and MainConcept AVC/AAC templates allow me to change the framerate to 25fps, but only the Sony AVC/MVC will allow me to select 50fps.

    I would just use the MainConcept template if it would allow me to select 50fps but unfortunately it won't...

    I don't think frame rate is the issue here, but thanks for taking the time to reply
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  4. You should be able to select 50fps by manually entering it in the FPS field for both Sony and Mainconcept. You might have to change the format profile and level to "unlock" it . My vegas computer is busy with other stuff right now so I can't check - but I'm 99% sure you can. I can check later today if nobody else answers by then
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    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    You should be able to select 50fps by manually entering it in the FPS field for both Sony and Mainconcept. You might have to change the format profile and level to "unlock" it . My vegas computer is busy with other stuff right now so I can't check - but I'm 99% sure you can. I can check later today if nobody else answers by then
    I just tried this out and you are correct! You can manually change it to 50fps. Can't believe I never tried this before. Thanks for your help.

    So now I know I can use the MainConcept setting from now on, but the thing is, I have rendered over 100 videos with the Sony setting, and obviously they all have the audio issues. So I'd still like to know if anyone out there knows why they would not work properly in so many different media players except for Quicktime?

    It's frustrating because the reason I chose MP4 to begin with was because I thought if any one format would work on multiple devices without issues it would be MP4...

    Basically what I want to know is, why does one MP4 work fine and the other not (except for in Quicktime)? Both are AVC/H.264 with AAC audio...

    And in case anyone is wondering why I made over 100 videos before I noticed a problem. I actually noticed the issue very early on, but I just assumed that was how it was supposed to be. I just assumed that unfortunately the end product was supposed to be slightly different to what I had in the timeline. That was until last week when I got so sick of it that I decided to test the files in multiple media players and as I stated above, the only one that played them correctly was Quicktime. Which is a little disappointing because I hate Quicktime. VLC is my default media player.

    So technically, if there is one media player that plays the files correctly, then there is nothing wrong with my videos, it just seems that most media players will not play them correctly, and it is very frustrating, considering VLC is supposed to be able to play just about everything...

    If anyone has any idea what the problem is I would appreciate their help.

    Thanks again to those who have replied so far
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  6. Sorry I kind of skimmed your 1st post and missed the other issue:

    The audio level fluctuations - I have no idea why that is happening, vegas is usually very good with audio (originally it was an audio editor). The exported file might be lower in volume but the relative relationship should be the same . Take a random project and export audio only (make sure all the audio tracks are selected), and do a quick test on a loop region - does the problem occur with uncompressed PCM WAV?

    The fluctuation can also be a player side issue (e.g some have audio plugins enabled like normalization, band pass filters , etc...) . When you re-import the PCM WAV back into vegas, or an audio editor like audacity, how does it sound ?



    RE: the sync issues in every player except quicktime

    1) What are your computer specs ?

    2) describe the sync issues more specifically - is it constant sync, gradually worsenen as time progresses, etc..? How much of a delay? What about seek behaviour - if you jump to a location does it begin in sync again ?

    3) Post a mediainfo report (view=>text) of one of the problem files

    Note that compressed audio always has some delay . Typically ~20-40ms. If you render out uncompressed audio, is there a sync issue (e.g. AVI video with PCM WAV), try a quick test
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    Thanks for your help so far, poisondeathray

    So, just to clarify, Quicktime also has no issue with the fluctuating audio. It plays the file perfectly. No sync issues, no fluctuation.

    According to MediaInfo there is a delay of 20ms, which might be what I am noticing in VLC and MPC (although it seems a little more), but for some reason WMP plays the audio much more than 20ms out of sync. I would say more like 500ms if not even a full second...

    I will try to do what you said with the PCM audio and test it out, but I'm not sure if you read the part where I said that when I render with Mainconcept AVC it does not have any issues at all in any of the media players, and that is with compressed audio as well. No delay, no fluctuation. The problem only ever occurs when I render with Sony AVC.

    Here is the MediaInfo for one of the problem files...

    Format : MPEG-4
    Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
    Codec ID : mp42
    File size : 557 MiB
    Duration : 8mn 49s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 8 814 Kbps
    Encoded date : UTC 2015-12-27 00:40:51
    Tagged date : UTC 2015-12-27 00:40:51

    Video
    ID : 2
    Format : AVC
    Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile : High@L4.0
    Format settings, CABAC : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
    Codec ID : avc1
    Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration : 8mn 49s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 8 487 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate : 9 000 Kbps
    Width : 640 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 4:3
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 50.000 fps
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.553
    Stream size : 536 MiB (96%)
    Language : English
    Encoded date : UTC 2015-12-27 00:40:51
    Tagged date : UTC 2015-12-27 00:40:51

    Audio
    ID : 1
    Format : AAC
    Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
    Format profile : LC
    Codec ID : 40
    Duration : 8mn 49s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 320 Kbps
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L R
    Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Delay relative to video : 20ms
    Stream size : 20.2 MiB (4%)
    Language : English
    Encoded date : UTC 2015-12-27 00:40:51
    Tagged date : UTC 2015-12-27 00:40:51
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  8. It's weird because quicktime is usually the player with all the problems. Did you try different versions of MPCHC, VLC etc.. ?

    You can't necessarily rely on mediainfo to determine a delay or the magnitude of the delay. Also, different AAC encoders will typically have different delays. For example Apple AAc typically has ~20ms but Nero typically has about ~40ms . Sony might be using a different one when you use Mainconcept vs Sony
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    Yeah, I never would have expected Quicktime to be the one that plays it correctly.

    However, I actually just found another media player that will play my files correctly. I searched around and decided to try SMplayer and surprisingly it played the files perfectly.

    So now that is 2 media players that I know of which can play them correctly. It's a little more reassuring that there are other players out there that work.

    It's still just a mystery as to why one of the best media players available won't play them correctly (as well as a few others).

    To answer your question, I haven't tried other versions of VLC. I am using the latest version of both VLC and MPC.

    Would you like me to upload a sample of one of my videos so you can test it out for yourself? I know some people don't like to download files that others have posted on forums, so I understand if you'd rather not. But if you're interested in taking a look, I'd be happy to upload a sample for you.

    Thanks once again for all your help.
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  10. If you have a small sample that you can reproduce the issue with on VLC, MPCHC etc... then go ahead an upload it. Since SMPlayer and QT can play it properly - It's more likely a local issue on your computer, such as player settings, or version of player (some VLC builds are very buggy)
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    Ok, so I have uploaded a small sample of both the Sony AVC setting and the MainConcept AVC setting. Just so you can see (or hear) the difference for yourself.

    Please note that you may have to turn the volume up a little more than usual to hear the difference. Nothing over-the-top, but if you have it too low you won't really notice the difference. FYI, I always listen with headphones, and they are good quality headphones too.

    Also, the dialogue starts at about 20 seconds into the video.

    Sony AVC (Problem file)

    https://mega.nz/#!atlRDRTK!0jgHYmdZiGuDi8xIDStuaYctVmRiXqbaFC7R30_fJNU


    MainConcept AVC

    https://mega.nz/#!Kw0EhKSA!joeSh2rpfwCZkdLmxiaeXKNk63eoHHD13TvHxp6F_4w


    I have to go out for a while now so I won't see your reply until I get back.

    Thanks again for taking the time to help.
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  12. Not the greatest clip to test for sync, because there aren't any visible cues like speech (mouth moving) , clear events linked to audio like clapboard, gunshots, door slamming etc... You know the edit intimately , so to you it will be easier to tell for you . But a quick look in a few media players doesn't show any big discrepancies. The would be easier to pick out if you had a better test clip

    If you open them in an audio editor like audacity and zoom right in to the waveform, they both start about 40ms in (that's the compressed delay), but otherwise are pretty close (one is slightly longer too), but the waveforms pretty much match up with minor deviations
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    I understand, I know it's not the best clip but I used it because it was my most recent project with dialogue and the only project file that I hadn't deleted. I didn't expect you to notice the delay in audio because as you said, you don't know what to look for whereas obviously I do, and it is only very minimal.

    Could you hear the fluctuation though? This is my main concern...

    And can I ask which media players you tested them with?

    Thanks once again for taking the time to test them out. I really appreciate it

    EDIT: Just so you are aware, when you are listening for the fluctuating audio, you should notice the music volume suddenly drop as soon as the commentator speaks and then rise again as soon as he stops speaking...
    Last edited by RMCF10; 4th Feb 2016 at 05:31.
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  14. I checked in MPCHC, potplayer . But if audio normalization was on in potplayer - I noticed there is some fluctuation much as you describe. So again it supports a player / configuration issue . But I can't explain why it only affects the Sony file. The MC file wasn't affected (or at least not as much)
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  15. Originally Posted by RMCF10 View Post
    The only difference I made when rendering with MainConcept AVC/AAC was the framerate, and that is only because for some reason MainConcept AVC/AAC does not allow you to select 50fps
    Not sure why it happens while using Sony template, but that Mainconcept can render 50p/59.94p:

    -just type it in there, that 50.000 or 50 (frame rate) , if it is not an option, or if it does not work maybe you need to change profile first to High or at least Main

    -change project properties to 50p before export , if you do not have that set

    -or you can use frame server, but is a bit advanced, not straight forward ... but you'd be rewarded with most custom export possible ...
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    Originally Posted by RMCF10 View Post
    The problem is, in the Sony Vegas timeline it all sounds perfect, exactly how I want it to be, but once I play the file after rendering, the music (when the dialogue comes in) is so much lower than it sounds in Sony Vegas... But the thing is, it is not constant. As soon as the commentator stops speaking for even a second the volume instantly increases but then 1 second later the commentator speaks again and the volume lowers again.
    Go to Render As, click Customize Template and then click on the Audio tab. If you find an Automatic Gain Control option, uncheck it.
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    Originally Posted by JVRaines View Post
    Go to Render As, click Customize Template and then click on the Audio tab. If you find an Automatic Gain Control option, uncheck it.
    Thanks for your reply, but there is no automatic gain control option in the template I am using.

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    I checked in MPCHC, potplayer . But if audio normalization was on in potplayer - I noticed there is some fluctuation much as you describe. So again it supports a player / configuration issue . But I can't explain why it only affects the Sony file. The MC file wasn't affected (or at least not as much)
    I understand. Well it seems that I will just have to accept that it is what it is. I knew it would be unlikely that anyone could explain why it only affects the Sony files.

    I searched around and found someone with the same issue on a different forum, but unfortunately it was unresolved as well.

    Anyway, thanks again to everyone who tried to help, especially poisondeathray. I really appreciate it.
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