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  1. Hello support,

    Since the "Value for Money" rating really doesn't apply to freeware, would it be possible to change that rating selection to something like:

    Value for time invested (freeware) or money
    Value for research (freeware) or money

    The reason I am asking for this change is someone challenged my rating of a freeware program where I gave it a 4 for value of money. The reason I did this is because if time is money, then I received no value as that program did not work for me. However, I did learn something from my research of that program; in that, I need to find a comparable program that gives me a good starting point for understanding presets. So, that is why I gave it a 4 instead of a 0. In summary, if you download a freeware program, and test it for an hour, and you find out it does not work for your purposes, there has to be a way to rate it accordingly without someone hammering you for your rating of same.

    Thank you,

    gus
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  2. Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    .... is because if time is money, then I received no value as that program did not work for me.
    It's a good job those who write freeware don't take that rather mercenary view of the world!


    I don't agree with your assertion here.... it's freeware we're talking about. Someone has taken the trouble to write something (hopefully) useful, and invited you to try it out - for free.
    If you've paid for something that doesn't work, then of course you can complain about poor 'value for money'....

    There's no compulsion to try out a free program, if you don't want to take the risk of wasting your 'valuable time'.
    Rating freeware 'value for money' at less than 10 is simply insulting the author. And that's out of order, in my opinion..
    Last edited by pippas; 1st Feb 2016 at 08:30.
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  3. @pippas,

    This is about "my" value for the money rating, not the author's value for his time. Once again, I have been pounded for making a suggestion or comment. And, regarding your comment "Rating freeware 'value for money' at less than 10 is simply insulting the author." No, it is not, it is just saying it does not fit my needs; period! Furthermore, your comment only reinforces the need to either modify that choice to what I advised or, better yet, remove it completely for freeware programs as it makes no sense "as is." BTW, let's not talk about insulting the authors because I have seen many authors insulting "other" authors and that seems to be OK. Just get rid of that choice for freeware; so how's that?
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  4. One more comment regarding your comment: There's no compulsion to try out a free program, if you don't want to take the risk of wasting your 'valuable time'. FYI, I'll try out any program I like and I don't have to give every author a 10 just because it is freeware. And, the arrogance of your wording is unjustified because if you really read my suggestion, you will see it might have some merit but the best solution is to not have a "value for money" rating at all for freeware programs.
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  5. Originally Posted by pippas View Post
    Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    .... is because if time is money, then I received no value as that program did not work for me.
    It's a good job those who write freeware don't take that rather mercenary view of the world!
    That seems to be golden answer, right on the money.

    Think of those free programs like a gift. You do not judge giver for giving you something that did not work for you. You just restrain yourself of public judgment, sort of. If it works for me , you can share that opinion. If not you can ask what is wrong, trying to troubleshoot the problem. Those guys want a feedback, look at Hybrid for example, an trying to fix it. He/she (you never know like x264 developers, heh) spent a time to wrote it, you spend a time to troubleshoot it with him if it is possible. Even if that does not work, it is still a gift.
    If software does not work and there is no will to troubleshoot with the author or author is not available, you are still in that gift category, where in real life you 'd restrain comment. Most of the time you have to compromise or learn new workflow, perhaps becoming a bit of a geek like those authors, but that usually opens the door to something new , exiting, if you care. If not test paid version.

    Number of comments , good ones usually tells you that software might work for you, if it is free, or even better if comment tells the compromises to make it work. That works for everyone and author as well. You seem to miss this point. The comments are a process to get software better, but if you give it not enough stars it is out there forever.
    Last edited by _Al_; 1st Feb 2016 at 09:31.
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    I don't give value ratings period..even for the software I bought like video redo
    I like it, or I don't like
    It works for me, or it doesn't

    But I have to agree that a value for$$ , is really not an appropriate rating for free ware
    Free or paid, I show my appreciation by recommending good software that gets the job done for me
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  7. Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    Originally Posted by pippas View Post
    Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    .... is because if time is money, then I received no value as that program did not work for me.
    It's a good job those who write freeware don't take that rather mercenary view of the world!
    That seems to be golden answer, right on the money.

    Think of those free programs like a gift. You do not judge giver for giving you something that did not work for you. You just restrain yourself of public judgment, sort of. If it works for me , you can share that opinion. If not you can ask what is wrong, trying to troubleshoot the problem. Those guys want a feedback, look at Hybrid for example, an trying to fix it. He/she (you never know like x264 developers, heh) spent a time to wrote it, you spend a time to troubleshoot it with him if it is possible. Even if that does not work, it is still a gift.
    If software does not work and there is no will to troubleshoot with the author or author is not available, you are still in that gift category, where in real life you 'd restrain comment. Most of the time you have to compromise or learn new workflow, perhaps becoming a bit of a geek like those authors, but that usually opens the door to something new , exiting, if you care. If not test paid version.

    Number of comments , good ones usually tells you that software might work for you, if it is free, or even better if comment tells the compromises to make it work. That works for everyone and author as well. You seem to miss this point. The comments are a process to get software better, but if you give it not enough stars it is out there forever.
    At this point, the only way to do that is be totally silent because you must insert an entry for "value for money." So, if I want to provide any feedback (good or bad) I "must" enter a value for money rating; period! And, since a value for money rating is inappropriate for freeware, why must one always enter a 10? Just remove that value from the rating system for freeware and that will solve this issue 100%.
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  8. Originally Posted by theewizard View Post
    I don't give value ratings period..even for the software I bought like video redo
    I like it, or I don't like
    It works for me, or it doesn't

    But I have to agree that a value for$$ , is really not an appropriate rating for free ware
    Free or paid, I show my appreciation by recommending good software that gets the job done for me
    Thank you for reading my original post and understanding the point I was trying to make.
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  9. Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    And, since a value for money rating is inappropriate for freeware, why must one always enter a 10?
    Becasue entering any other figure may simply be seen as just rude.

    I have to agree that it might make sense to change it, but until then I see no need to enter any figure other than 10, out of courtesy.

    You obviously see it differently, and seem upset that anyone would dare to criticise your viewpoint... even though you chose to post in an open forum.

    Perhaps you might have been better off sending a PM to request a change, either to the forum administrator or one of the mods?....
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  10. Originally Posted by pippas View Post
    Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    And, since a value for money rating is inappropriate for freeware, why must one always enter a 10?
    Becasue entering any other figure may simply be seen as just rude.

    I have to agree that it might make sense to change it, but until then I see no need to enter any figure other than 10, out of courtesy.

    You obviously see it differently, and seem upset that anyone would dare to criticise your viewpoint... even though you chose to post in an open forum.

    Perhaps you might have been better off sending a PM to request a change, either to the forum administrator or one of the mods?....
    Well, I see it the other way. It is the challengers that are upset that I chose/dared to rate it something other than a 10. And, if that was so bad, why do they even offer that option for freeware (hint, hint)? I also posted in a general forum to seek credible responses to my suggested change and the focus was immediately switched to my personal rating.
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  11. Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    Well, I see it the other way....
    I sort of worked that out all by myself...I still think you're wrong...
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  12. Originally Posted by pippas View Post
    Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    Well, I see it the other way....
    I sort of worked that out all by myself...I still think you're wrong...
    Another snide comment that only serves to detract from my originally intended purpose.
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  13. OK, different page, I can try for example,

    value for money, how it could be 5 stars if you did not pay anything? Time is money? What World, some Jewish proverb or something? This is voluntary based world and opinion exchange. You test it, it does not work, you give opinion. But you should not be reimbursed! That is money, pay-back. I do stuff for my brother for free, he does the same. That is community. Another point is, you do not have to do anything. You download free software from open source whatever community, where your money come from. Thin air? Because you spend a time to test it? I sleep 10 hours, you 8 hours, should I pay someone because I wasted my time? Anyway who says that 2 hour is a waste.

    Or another look, that software COULD bring you money, say, you are videographer, are you going to automatically donate to author? Is it mandatory? That is money.

    Personally I do not care what the people say while commenting on that page, just reading those who have something to say, not caring about stars. Just meaning what "value for money" can obviously be interpreted in many ways.
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  14. The fact that the author gave their software aware for free entitles them to gratitude but not automatic praise. If the software was garbage and didn't work I'd be grateful that they offered their time and knowledge freely and tried to be helpful, but no more than that.

    Likewise, if someone gave me a present that turned out to be a turd wrapped in a sparkly bow I wouldn't be singing their praises.
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    In the interest of a fair rating system, and to placate the members of this forum who insist on taking every word they read literally, the value for money rating would have to be removed for freeware.

    Even though "value for the money" doesn't apply to freeware in a literal sense, I have certainly used some freeware that was only worth the price charged (worth nothing) as well as some that was worth far more.

    If someone must enter something for "value for the money", what does one choose for freeware which is truly awful? That number does count towards the overall rating. If bad freeware was automatically given a 5 in the value for money section just because it is free, it would raise the overall rating unfairly in comparison to paid software, where value for money does apply in the literal sense.
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  16. Originally Posted by davejavu View Post
    The fact that the author gave their software aware for free entitles them to gratitude but not automatic praise. If the software was garbage and didn't work I'd be grateful that they offered their time and knowledge freely and tried to be helpful, but no more than that.

    Likewise, if someone gave me a present that turned out to be a turd wrapped in a sparkly bow I wouldn't be singing their praises.
    There is a lebel discussion here, about labels, wording, specifically "value for money", not what you say about that software. Nobody says you should praise something that did not work for you. But try to understand the other side. They might be waiting for feedback, the last thing you wanna here is "it did not work, adios". I love comments on google play store for example. It did not work! That is hilarious. Any app I downloaded simply worked (I do not go crazy with downloading) but there is thousands who post this.
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  17. Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    There is a lebel discussion here, about labels, wording, specifically "value for money", not what you say about that software. Nobody says you should praise something that did not work for you. But try to understand the other side. They might be waiting for feedback, the last thing you wanna here is "it did not work, adios". I love comments on google play store for example. It did not work! That is hilarious. Any app I downloaded simply worked (I do not go crazy with downloading) but there is thousands who post this.
    I agree with you entirely, but someone did suggest that freeware be given an automatic rating of 10 because the author gave their time to create the software for free.

    I don't like that idea at all. Ratings should be based on our own personal opinion of our experience with the software, good, bad or disastrous! If we want to give a low rating because we had a bad experience, we shouldn't be accused of insulting the author.

    As for giving constructive feedback to the author, again I agree. The problem is that, in my experience at least, I don't always feel qualified or experienced enough to give useful feedback. Sometimes the software won't actually work as software, but I won't be able to say why so can't give the author anything useful. Sometimes the software does exactly what it is supposed to do but not exactly what I might want it to do, so I have to modify my expectations or find another piece of software that does.
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  18. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I am sure I read a thread about 'Value For Money' with Freeware some time back.

    My two cents. This is not about time spent(or lost) in evaluation. It's about the real cost to you - how much it hurts your pocket. So that, in it's strict sense deems that vfm should be 10/10 since it actually costs you zilch.

    But here's another angle. There are usually similar products that cost real money. If the person providing the feedback has trialled these and, for example, one did cost $100, he might consider that this s/w was not actually worth more than $40 his vfm rating is then just 4/10
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  19. Originally Posted by pippas View Post
    Rating freeware 'value for money' at less than 10 is simply insulting the author. And that's out of order, in my opinion..
    What's "insulting" is when someone writes a program that is buggy and/or makes a lot of promises about what it can do and when you try it the program is incapable of doing any of it.

    That's like a slap in the face and if someone codes a pile of steaming garbage then it's appropriate to rate it as such.
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  20. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I am sure I read a thread about 'Value For Money' with Freeware some time back.
    You still are as far as I can tell.

    The contributors opinions on a 'value for money' rating for 'freeware' are valid arguments from their perspective but seem to suggest that this is highly subjective and, as the OP originally suggested, perhaps a little pointless.
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  21. Ok, I just browsed a few freeware offerings (at random) and read some comments. And lo and behold, I found several "value for money" ratings below 10.

    In fact, here's one where 3 different people rated this freeware program as a "1" in the "value for money" category:
    https://www.videohelp.com/software/ASFTools

    In summary, it appears that giving a rating below 10 is quite common so why all the fuss now? Why don't the "always a 10" group browse around and see how many you can find yourselves? Then, you can respond to every non-10 rating you can find and that should keep you all busy for a year or so. Let's just get rid of that rating for freeware and be done with this issue.
    Last edited by gus gusimio; 2nd Feb 2016 at 10:41.
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  22. Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    Ok, I just browsed a few freeware offerings (at random) and read some comments. And lo and behold, I found several "value for money" ratings below 10.
    Oh good - So, now we know there is more than one rude commentator on the site --- Thanks for taking the trouble to bring that to our attention.

    (As this is clearly important to you, why not follow my suggestion in post #9, and PM the Forum Admin with your suggestion for a change?
    No one else can help you on this one....)
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  23. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Well this 'at random' is turning out to be an obsession.

    Maybe you should provide the link to the s/w where you got the 'bullet'. Then we can all have a good laugh.

    And if you bothered to read, and understand, all that has been written you might appreciate that there is no easy answer rather than take the whole rating down.

    And before you suggest this, the system is, AFAIK, global. There is no facility to differentiate between freeware and payware. And neither, IMO, should there be.
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  24. What, no freeware available for forum ratings that can do this!
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  25. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
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    I might change it but I must first fix more important stuff like redesign the entire site to responsive html(desktop and mobile friendly with less tables). It will take some years....
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  26. Originally Posted by pippas View Post
    Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    Ok, I just browsed a few freeware offerings (at random) and read some comments. And lo and behold, I found several "value for money" ratings below 10.
    Oh good - So, now we know there is more than one rude commentator on the site --- Thanks for taking the trouble to bring that to our attention.

    (As this is clearly important to you, why not follow my suggestion in post #9, and PM the Forum Admin with your suggestion for a change?
    No one else can help you on this one....)
    Really? You take a look at both our responses and YOU tell me who is the rude one.
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  27. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Well this 'at random' is turning out to be an obsession.

    Maybe you should provide the link to the s/w where you got the 'bullet'. Then we can all have a good laugh.

    And if you bothered to read, and understand, all that has been written you might appreciate that there is no easy answer rather than take the whole rating down.

    And before you suggest this, the system is, AFAIK, global. There is no facility to differentiate between freeware and payware. And neither, IMO, should there be.
    No need to provide anything additional. In summary, the few in the "freeware must always be rated a 10 group" can continue to hate and I will simply continue to rate the software as I see fit (just like the majority of people do).
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  28. Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    Really? You take a look at both our responses and YOU tell me who is the rude one.
    I have not set out specifically to be rude to you. I just happen to think that entering anything less than a 10 in the 'value for money' rating for freeware is rude, and simply expressed my view. You don't agree with that view.

    As you have seen in this thread there are others who agree with you... and some who agree with me. I suspect we're unlikely to find any common ground.....

    (And if you read post#25 you'll see that that things are likely to stay the same way for a while yet)

    You - and anyone else - is of course perfectly entitled to enter a lower number for that particular rating.... it's an open forum.
    But you are always likely to find those who do think its rude, and will comment as such.

    In the grand scheme of things, it's not exactly of world shattering importance, either way.....
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  29. Originally Posted by pippas View Post
    Originally Posted by gus gusimio View Post
    Really? You take a look at both our responses and YOU tell me who is the rude one.
    I have not set out specifically to be rude to you. I just happen to think that entering anything less than a 10 in the 'value for money' rating for freeware is rude, and simply expressed my view. You don't agree with that view.

    As you have seen in this thread there are others who agree with you... and some who agree with me. I suspect we're unlikely to find any common ground.....

    (And if you read post#25 you'll see that that things are likely to stay the same way for a while yet)

    You - and anyone else - is of course perfectly entitled to enter a lower number for that particular rating.... it's an open forum.
    But you are always likely to find those who do think its rude, and will comment as such.

    In the grand scheme of things, it's not exactly of world shattering importance, either way.....
    Now, that is a very understandable and logical response that was written with intellect instead of emotion. Well done!
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