Hauppauge 1512 Capture: .TS Files Won't Load Into Most Editing Apps

[DB83]

You might not have acknowledged this but I also asked for the 'sample' vid. Purely to see if there was something you could have over-looked.

I also suggested you lower the bit-rate - I am sure that the original recording was not so high and do you really need that much ?

But back to the 'sample' for just a moment and your reluctance to publish the link for content reasons. National Lampoon ? it may be 'raunchy' or even 'filthy' both are actually subjective and opinionated. But this is not the 50's or even the 80's when this content was produced. And, if this really concerns you, then my suggestion to PM the link still stands.

As for 90' F not being hot, I invite you to a climate where substantially lower is considered so

[johnmeyer]

You might not have acknowledged this but I also asked for the 'sample' vid. Purely to see if there was something you could have over-looked.

I also suggested you lower the bit-rate - I am sure that the original recording was not so high and do you really need that much ?

But back to the 'sample' for just a moment and your reluctance to publish the link for content reasons. National Lampoon ? it may be 'raunchy' or even 'filthy' both are actually subjective and opinionated. But this is not the 50's or even the 80's when this content was produced. And, if this really concerns you, then my suggestion to PM the link still stands.

As for 90' F not being hot, I invite you to a climate where substantially lower is considered so

I acknowledged, in a general way, the request to post a sample. You were one of two people who asked. As for not posting publicly, despite the considerable lowering in standards of public decency, the National Lampoon content still violates all contemporary FCC standards, and a large portion of the public would still find it offensive. So even though times have changed, it is still not publicly acceptable, and I stand by my decision not to post it. However, I am working on other captures that contain the problem and which will be acceptable to post.

As for sending it privately, at this point I am first going to try to deal with Hauppauge. Based on feedback here and on one other forum where I have posted, it is pretty clear that no one is going to have any useful suggestions because the problem really isn't solvable by anyone except Hauppauge. In other words, I am now pretty sure this isn't the result of my own stupidity or a problem with my connections, or overheating, or anything like that.

[DB83]

Ok. It's your call. Except you came on here looking for help yet you do not wish to explore all the avenues.

Coming from the other side of the pond I do not understand your comment about 'FCC Standards' when there are thing out there, and appear on US tv, far worse that anything I recall about National Lampoon. Maybe age has nullified such things.

[johnmeyer]

Ok. It's your call. Except you came on here looking for help yet you do not wish to explore all the avenues.

That comment is not accurate. I have explained my reasons for not making available the only < 1 GB corrupt clip that I have. I have many other clips that exhibit the problem, but as I said in my initial post, the problem only happens on really long captures. Thus, I have many > 10 GB files that exhibit the problem, but these are not practical to upload. The only "small" capture that exhibited the problem happened to be one from this raunchy documentary that I was capturing for a friend who knew most of the Lampoon people back in the 60s and early 70s and wanted to see it. Most of the other captures I have done since first installing the 1512 about five days ago have been from sporting events that are clogging up my DVR, but which I want to save for my kids (they are games played by their college football team).

The point is, I have not been able to easily reproduce the problem in smaller, shorter captures. Since I do not spend all eighteen hours of each day doing captures, I have not yet been able to create another relatively short capture that contains the problems I am describing in the two short days since I initially posted.

So, that is why I say that I find your comment inaccurate, as well as a little unkind, and not particularly helpful. Speaking directly to your point: I have responded to just about every comment and post, and have done almost all the things people have suggested. To say that I have not "explored all avenues" is therefore quite inaccurate, and rather insulting to me. As you can tell from my tone, I found it a little insulting.

If I am able to produce another reasonably sized (< 500 MB) file that has some or all of the problems I've mentioned, I will certainly post a link here.

[DB83]

Oh dear.

You will not be the first American 'insulted' by my comments. Comments which NEVER are intended to be so. Sometimes people need to take a step back and actually think before they commit.

Do you really think that Hauppuage will actually be able to find the issue - if indeed there is one - from the capture. Of course there is an issue. If there is not then you would not be posting here, and elsewhere, in the first place. But coming back to your OP >> 'can not be opened in editing programs'. Without third parties seeing such a sample then how do we help ?

I have no axe to grind with you. Neither have I any vested interest in Hauppuage. I already said, and others too, that I have found their products generally as good as others. They have made claims. The one I do recall. Not an exact quote "Will make AVCHD compliant captures for disks".

The point I am trying to make is that someone here, who has access to Hauppuage's software, might be able to make sense of your capture. That is, with respect, something you might well have overlooked.

[johnmeyer]

You will not be the first American 'insulted' by my comments.

This has nothing to do with my country, where I live, or who I am.

Do you really think that Hauppuage will actually be able to find the issue - if indeed there is one - from the capture.

Yes. They are probably the only ones who can find something because it is quite clear to me (I have an EE degree and have run three software companies) that it is a bug in their software. By posting here, I initially was hoping to find others who had the same problem (I did find one), in order to bolster my case with Hauppauge, and also was hoping to find some workarounds. I didn't get too much help on that, but have now figured a tortured route that does eventually let me get the job done, so I guess I've found my own workarounds.

The point I am trying to make is that someone here, who has access to Hauppuage's software, might be able to make sense of your capture. That is, with respect, something you might well have overlooked.

I have already agreed with your statement and now, for the third time, will agree with it again. I apparently wasted my time in my last post trying to explain why, just two days after making my initial post, I have not yet been able to come up with a file that is small enough for me to upload. So, you have now made this same point three times, and I am now responding, for the third time, that I will upload a file as soon as I have one that is small enough to be practical for uploading to Dropbox or Mediafire, etc.

Please do me the favor of letting other people respond because you have made this a very non-productive discussion, and other people are now very likely to be scared off from getting involved. Because of that, you have not helped me, and actually made it much less likely that I will receive any help here.

[DB83]

Just how does my contribution stop others from doing so ?

I do not exactly see others falling over themselves trying to assist from the day you started the thread. As for 'bolstering' your case were there not enough others in that other forum for you.

I do not hold a EE degree nor do I run three software companies but I think none of these are actually relevant here.

To be totally frank and this time it will be my last word since you are beyond help - the excuse for not posting that capture is purile - you did not look for help in creating this topic. It was just a statement of fact as you saw it. Do you really think that Hauppuage would still be selling these if they were so bad as you put them out to be ? And as for that capture, if it was not done straight to HDD and not through this convoluted LAN system you describe, Hauppuage will be even less interested.

Have a nice day !

[usually_quiet]

There was another capture program distributed with it at one time. Before Hauppauge Capture, Hauppauge supplied a custom version of Arcsoft Showbiz. You could ask Hauppauge if they would be willing to give you a download. WinTV 8 is supposed to be compatible as well. If .TS captures work correctly with either of these, then Hauppauge Capture is the problem.

At one time I used the original Hauppauge Colossus for capturing TV from a cable box (not a DVR) via HDMI with 5.1 AC3 audio to TS format. It performed very well most of the time, but once in a while there were inexplicable problems. I tried recording Taken 2 (from the same channel each time) on 3 separate occasions and the video stuttered periodically from start to end each time. I tried power cycling prior to recording, but it made no difference. I recorded other movies from the same channel without any problems. I wonder if there were errors in the AC3 stream which caused the problem.

[johnmeyer]

There was another capture program distributed with it at one time. Before Hauppauge Capture, Hauppauge supplied a custom version of Arcsoft Showbiz. You could ask Hauppauge if they would be willing to give you a download. WinTV 8 is supposed to be compatible as well. If .TS captures work correctly with either of these, then Hauppauge Capture is the problem.

At one time I used the original Hauppauge Colossus for capturing TV from a cable box (not a DVR) via HDMI with 5.1 AC3 audio to TS format. It performed very well most of the time, but once in a while there were inexplicable problems. I tried recording Taken 2 (from the same channel each time) on 3 separate occasions and the video stuttered periodically from start to end each time. I tried power cycling prior to recording, but it made no difference. I recorded other movies from the same channel without any problems. I wonder if there were errors in the AC3 stream which caused the problem.

Are you still using the Arcsoft program? I was a little reluctant to install the WinTV software because it didn't look like it did what I needed, whereas the Capture program had exactly the right features. I am aware of the Arcsoft program and I think I can still get that, either from Hauppauge, or elsewhere.

So, do you have the Hauppauge 1512, or are you still using the Colossus, or are you using something else?

I am definitely open to using some other software and, indeed, I was hoping someone would tell me that they had found something which works better with the 1512.

Thanks!

[DB83]

So I lied. Your favourite 'Troll' is back again.

A few suggestions to make 'progress'. Do a recording of some innoccious content such as the news or even the weather. Make certain there are some commercials so that the program can interrupt them

Then capture them both as .mp4 and .ts and upload them somewhere. Provide the links. Rationale: I have read some reviews of this or, possibly, similar and only .mp4 is really editable. Rationale 2: You may be misled in your assertion that the .mp4 is vfr (If that came from mediainfo we both should know that it does get it wrong sometimes)

Rationale 3: You even said yourself that 'in the right conditions' the capture works fine. So if it works then how can it be faulty ?

Rational 4: Even the best software/hardware can trip up if the actual transmission is suspect >> Some time ago I was very active in a forum where one user complained bitterly of packet loss that effected his captures whereas I did not get the issue since my setup was different.

Rational 5: I may be, in your eyes, a 'Troll' and I have not been on here as long as you have. But I have posted slightly more times than you have so I must be doing something right.

Enjoy your evening. My bed awaits.

[usually_quiet]

There was another capture program distributed with it at one time. Before Hauppauge Capture, Hauppauge supplied a custom version of Arcsoft Showbiz. You could ask Hauppauge if they would be willing to give you a download. WinTV 8 is supposed to be compatible as well. If .TS captures work correctly with either of these, then Hauppauge Capture is the problem.

At one time I used the original Hauppauge Colossus for capturing TV from a cable box (not a DVR) via HDMI with 5.1 AC3 audio to TS format. It performed very well most of the time, but once in a while there were inexplicable problems. I tried recording Taken 2 (from the same channel each time) on 3 separate occasions and the video stuttered periodically from start to end each time. I tried power cycling prior to recording, but it made no difference. I recorded other movies from the same channel without any problems. I wonder if there were errors in the AC3 stream which caused the problem.

Are you still using the Arcsoft program? I was a little reluctant to install the WinTV software because it didn't look like it did what I needed, whereas the Capture program had exactly the right features. I am aware of the Arcsoft program and I think I can still get that, either from Hauppauge, or elsewhere.

So, do you have the Hauppauge 1512, or are you still using the Colossus, or are you using something else?

I am definitely open to using some other software and, indeed, I was hoping someone would tell me that they had found something which works better with the 1512.

Thanks!

I still have ArcSoft Showbiz installed, but the Colossus is boxed up. I never bought the HD-PVR 2. I wanted an internal device for less clutter. I started out using component video and Toslink, but was dissatisfied with the picture quality. I eventually bought one of those special HDMI splitters. it allowed me to record HDMI out from the cable box with the Colossus and I needed one to be able to watch TV with the PC turned off. I would not say the original Colossus is a better product then the HD-PVR 2. It is probably equally quirky.

You need to get Hauppauge's version of Showbiz for the HD-PVR 2. The standard version of Showbiz won't recognize the HD-PVR 2 from what I understand.

I eventually bought a CableCARD tuner because I could only record one thing at a time using the Colossus and a cable box.The CableCARD tuner let me get rid of my cable box and allows me to record up to three programs at the same time. It works great with Comcast service for the most part although I have undiagnosed mysterious hardware or software problems once in a while which cause scheduled recordings to fail.

[johnmeyer]

I still have ArcSoft Showbiz installed, but the Colossus is boxed up. I never bought the HD-PVR 2. I wanted an internal device for less clutter. I started out using component video and Toslink, but was dissatisfied with the picture quality. I eventually bought one of those special HDMI splitters. it allowed me to record HDMI out from the cable box with the Colossus and I needed one to be able to watch TV with the PC turned off. I would not say the original Colossus is a better product then the HD-PVR 2. It is probably equally quirky.

You need to get Hauppauge's version of Showbiz for the HD-PVR 2. The standard version of Showbiz won't recognize the HD-PVR 2 from what I understand.

I eventually bought a CableCARD tuner because I could only record one thing at a time using the Colossus and a cable box.The CableCARD tuner let me get rid of my cable box and allows me to record up to three programs at the same time. It works great with Comcast service for the most part although I have undiagnosed mysterious hardware or software problems once in a while which cause scheduled recordings to fail.

Thanks "quiet," your response is really, really useful, and is exactly the kind of help I was hoping to get when I started this thread.

I have considered getting an HDMI splitter to deal with the handshake issues out of a DVR, but don't know which ones work. Apparently some work, and some do not. Which product are you using? I'd much prefer to use HDMI for everything.

I still cannot get any long capture to work, as I've already said several times. I can sometimes load the short ones into Vegas and other applications, but even those still show huge numbers of errors when put through VideoRedo. Therefore, I am really intrigued with the idea of capturing via HDMI. Since the HDMI output from my XBox is recognized by the 1512, I guess my next step is to try a long capture with that and see what I get. If that works, then if I can use the same splitter as you, I may be able to fix the problem from the hardware side.

[usually_quiet]

I bought the ViewHD VHD-1X2MN3D http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Powered-Splitter-1080P-VHD-1X2MN3D/dp/B004F9LVXC/

[johnmeyer]

I bought the ViewHD VHD-1X2MN3D http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Powered-Splitter-1080P-VHD-1X2MN3D/

Perfect! I put that in my Amazon "wish list" so I can get back to it in a few days. If my XBox HDMI captures don't exhibit the problems I've had with my component captures from my Cisco DVR, I'll buy one. It is a surprisingly inexpensive device.

BTW, your link didn't work for me, but I found the product on Amazon at this link:

ViewHD 2 Port 1x2 Powered HDMI Mini Splitter for 1080P & 3D | VHD-1X2MN3D

[usually_quiet]

Sorry. I corrected the link

[johnmeyer]

Update

I did several captures from my XBox using HDMI rather than the component/optical inputs. These captures had no problems: they loaded and played in all applications, and running the video through VideoRedo's "QuickStream Fix" produced zero errors. I did not need to use QuickStream Fix, but since it not only fixed the component captures, but also produced huge numbers of errors, I wanted to see if it would find any problems. It found none.

To be clear, the only change I made was to plug in the HDMI cable from the XBox, change the video and audio inputs in the Hauppauge Capture application to HDMI, and I then started the capture. I made absolutely no changes to any capture settings whatsoever, other than what I just described.

This confirms that the problem is faulty Hauppauge software when used to capture component video. I just sent them a really long description of the things I have documented in this thread. Hopefully they can find the problem.

[Mark_Venture]

This confirms that the problem is faulty Hauppauge software when used to capture component video. I just sent them a really long description of the things I have documented in this thread. Hopefully they can find the problem.

Please post/share what they say...

For me, it is faulty on HDMI too. I have made several recordings using HDMI and Component on my HD PVR 2 using Hauppauge Capture, as well as ArcSoft Showbiz.

I still have issues. Some QSV in VideoRedo can't fix.

I miss using my old Hauppauge HD PVR 1212 unit, as it never had these issues.

[johnmeyer]

It has been four days (two of them business days) since I wrote to Hauppauge's tech support and still haven't heard from them. I had one other problem with interference patterns when capturing using component, and when I wrote to them, they responded quickly. Hopefully I'll hear from them shortly. If they don't respond, I'll post that here, and if they do respond, I'll let you know what they have to say.

[SHS]

johnmeyer I recommend stock setting I don't recommend push it to max setting this bad idea with HD-PVR 2 and Colossus 2 when go to high
I also recommend forcing you DVR or Settop in 720p output mode only and Stereo Audio for editing is most case it work fine.
Note some tv source are know to cuases major problem due poor editing in ads all over place and auto switching in both Audio mode and Video mode which don't help matters one bit and I would recommend not editing them unless your using a fix mode or it off a movie channel like HBO, Showitme with AC3 where there are no TV ads and other off wall steam error.
Hauppauge, Elgato not AVerMedia will help you or me with editing problem from TV show.
Any video I want to keep I just run thur Video to Video app as new MP4 in to smaller bitrate and they look just fine with ads no editing
If real must want editing them then convet it to AVI and Raw Wave and rebuild that way
Plases also keeping that the root of the problem are thoses network boastcast are alway thowing in a monkey wrench it to the steam.
Post a sceenshot of the interference patterns your seeing

[johnmeyer]

johnmeyer I recommend stock setting I don't recommend push it to max setting this bad idea with HD-PVR 2 and Colossus 2 when go to high
I also recommend forcing you DVR or Settop in 720p output mode only and Stereo Audio for editing is most case it work fine.
Note some tv source are know to cuases major problem due poor editing in ads all over place and auto switching in both Audio mode and Video mode which don't help matters one bit and I would recommend not editing them unless your using a fix mode or it off a movie channel like HBO, Showitme with AC3 where there are no TV ads and other off wall steam error.
Hauppauge, Elgato not AVerMedia will help you or me with editing problem from TV show.
Any video I want to keep I just run thur Video to Video app as new MP4 in to smaller bitrate and they look just fine with ads no editing
If real must want editing them then convet it to AVI and Raw Wave and rebuild that way
Plases also keeping that the root of the problem are thoses network boastcast are alway thowing in a monkey wrench it to the steam.
Post a sceenshot of the interference patterns your seeing

So, what you are saying is that this product is not capable of doing what Hauppauge advertises it can do. And, if I am to accept that idea, how do I know when I have reached the point at which I have sufficiently degraded the capture so that I won't have problems?? What ARE the real specs?

Also, if it cannot handle changes in bitrates and audio going from one part of a program to the next (i.e., the network program interspersed with commercials), then I think it would be an accurate statement to say that this product is not fit for its intended purpose, especially given the advertising and marketing copy which promises that it can be used to offload your DVR. Heck, the product is even called a "PVR."

As for posting a screenshot of "interference patterns," you must be confusing my post with someone else's post. I have not seen any interference patterns. My problems are:

• the captures will not load into most applications;

• I must run all captures through VideoRedo's "Quickstream Fix" in order to make them playable

• Even after this fix, I often have small interruptions in the capture (dropped frames and audio)

• I have had at least one instance of audio sync issues

Hauppauge seems very slow and reluctant to help, although they did send me a beta capture driver. I installed that, but it made zero difference, and in fact one capture couldn't even be fixed with Quickstream Fix.

I am holding off for a few more days before I return this unit and post a bad review on Amazon, hoping they can fix it.

Again, just to repeat what I said above, the problem is entirely with the Composite Capture [edit - I meant Component] capability. HDMI seems to work just fine, with none of the same problems.

[SHS]

Composite Capture ?? as in 480i or 480p from what

[johnmeyer]

Composite Capture ?? as in 480i or 480p from what

Sorry, my mistake: I meant component capture, i.e., three RCA cables for the video.

[DB83]

re Interference pattern

Maybe you should re-read your own post #48

Has it ever occurred to you that there is a fault with your DVR ? Or even that is sending out these signals just to prevent the recording.

Fit for purpose. Well by your own admission it works fine with HDMI so it is fit for purpose. True there is also a claim by the manuf about component but they can only 'fix' something if there is something to fix or they can replicate your own issue. But I guess they can not.

[SHS]

re Interference pattern

Maybe you should re-read your own post #48

Has it ever occurred to you that there is a fault with your DVR ? Or even that is sending out these signals just to prevent the recording.

Fit for purpose. Well by your own admission it works fine with HDMI so it is fit for purpose. True there is also a claim by the manuf about component but they can only 'fix' something if there is something to fix or they can replicate your own issue. But I guess they can not.

That what I was think to as not all settop boxs or dvr are the same
That why I ask for screenshot johnmeyer of this problem that you are seeing

[johnmeyer]

That what I was think to as not all settop boxs or dvr are the same
That why I ask for screenshot johnmeyer of this problem that you are seeing

I plead guilty to making that post misleading. The interference pattern had nothing to do with the Hauppauge equipment and instead was a nasty little ground loop that I was able to hunt down and fix. The main point I was trying to make is that Hauppauge was initially quite responsive to my emails. They've been a little slower since then, but they are still working with me.

As for your thought, SHS, that it is somehow the fault of my DVR, that is definitely a possibility. Having said that, a few other people are reporting similar things, and they do not have the Cisco ISB-7500, but instead use other equipment.

[SHS]

That what I was think to as not all settop boxs or dvr are the same
That why I ask for screenshot johnmeyer of this problem that you are seeing

I plead guilty to making that post misleading. The interference pattern had nothing to do with the Hauppauge equipment and instead was a nasty little ground loop that I was able to hunt down and fix. The main point I was trying to make is that Hauppauge was initially quite responsive to my emails. They've been a little slower since then, but they are still working with me.

As for your thought, SHS, that it is somehow the fault of my DVR, that is definitely a possibility. Having said that, a few other people are reporting similar things, and they do not have the Cisco ISB-7500, but instead use other equipment.

So something that you left out which is very important here the thing about ground loop CATV coax even I have this problem my self you can't even really eliminates it but you can only reduces it when come analog you be count blessing it not on HDMI to so if HDMI working fine I highly recommend you stick with it over component.
Like said if a game console dosen't give you any of the some problem over component then the root of your problem is come from CATV coax box.
I take it that your using a Viewsonics VSIS-EU or Jensen Transformers VRD-1FF, TII 220 Cable TV Ground Loop Isolator ?.
There is another way that is with Audio Authority 1184 RGB/Component Video/Audio Ground Loop Isolator/DC Blocker
Depent who post your ref to link would be nice to that as I help min people over they last 15 years with Hauppauge TV device look up my nickname SHSPVR and I'm sure I miss a bunch people out there over years as well I can't be ever where.

[johnmeyer]

So something that you left out which is very important here the thing about ground loop CATV coax even I have this problem my self you can't even really eliminates it but you can only reduces it when come analog you be count blessing it not on HDMI to so if HDMI working fine I highly recommend you stick with it over component.

First of all, HDMI is not a possibility when recording from this DVR because the HDMI is encrypted. However, I may get a splitter and deal with this problem that way.

As for ground loops, yes, I have various transformers, "humbuckers," baluns, etc., but those are, as you pointed out, only capable of reducing the problem. The ideal thing is to find what causes it, and re-wire to eliminate it. I've found some amazing things over the years. The most important thing, of course, is to make sure all the equipment is on the same circuit. I've seen some home theaters that not only had plugs on different circuits, but some where one of those circuits was on a different phase. This gets particularly nasty when dealing with "whole home" systems, where some equipment is in remote locations ("zones").

I don't have a true "whole home" system, but I do have connections to other parts of the house, and these can cause problems.

Since I no longer have a ground loop issue, and do not have interference patterns (visually similar to moiré patterns), I don't think that has anything whatsoever to do with my main issues.

[SHS]

I just wonder is HDMI is encrypted on all channel ? some time they usely have it a few that are not.

[johnmeyer]

I just wonder is HDMI is encrypted on all channel ? some time they usely have it a few that are not.

I don't know. Interesting thought. I could try it on some of the promotion channels that are on all the time, even if you haven't yet set up a subscription.

Hauppauge support has asked me to do a bunch more captures with their beta driver, so I'm going to test out a few of the theories and ideas people have suggested in this thread. I should have more to report in a day or two.

[johnmeyer]

Hauppauge has been helping me narrow down the problem, and I am making progress. The short version of my findings:

Using component (three video cables) with optical audio = BAD
Using component (three video cables) with analog audio = GOOD

Both SHS and unusually_quiet speculated that this might be the case. I responded to both of them, but I never went back and did a side-by-side analog/digital audio test until now.

The short version of what I did:

I captured a 5.1 audio program (a musical performance from "The Tonight Show") using:

• default settings;
• .TS format;
• VBR;
• 14 Mbps.

I made sure to NOT capture any commercials or other program material, so there is no question of either the audio or video switching format. The only change I made between captures was to change from analog to digital audio.

The digital audio capture would not load into any of my apps, had errors when I put it through Videoredo's "Quickstream Fix" utility, and then had dropped frames after undergoing that "fix." The analog capture loaded fine into all apps, and when put through Quickstream Fix, produced no errors. I detected no dropped frames. Of course the analog capture was stereo, whereas the optical capture was 5.1.

I have not yet tried to capture stereo source material to further determine if the problem is 5.1 vs. stereo, or simply a broken digital analog driver.

So, it does look like a bug in their software. I have offered to send my good and bad files to them. We'll see if they can track it down.