Hauppauge 1512 Capture: .TS Files Won't Load Into Most Editing Apps

[johnmeyer]

I'm using the Hauppauge Capture application with my new 1512 PVR. I am using default settings, with the encoding set to Variable at full bitrate (14 Mbps). I am recording using the .TS setting. I am recording to my main editing computer via a hardwired network connection over a 1 Gbps network with no other users. I have the latest (December 2015) drivers and updates. I am capturing via Component from my Cisco ISB7500 DVR. The audio is captured via optical.

When I record short 10-30 second test clips, these load and play fine in Windows Media Player, VLC, Sony Vegas (versions 10 and above), VideoRedo, and other applications as well. All is good.

However, when I do a "real" recording of a TV show that is 1-3 hours long, that 8-20 gigabyte file will not load or play in anything except for the VLC video player. It hard crashes everything else.

I have tried cutting the first 10 seconds of the file, using the Edit tab in the Hauppauge Capture application, but the resulting file still doesn't work. I have tried to convert to MP4, but I immediately get a Runtime error, and the Capture application crashes. Sometimes I can load the file into the VideoRedo "Quickstream Fix" app, and the resulting file sometimes works in my other applications, although not always. This is hit or miss.

Finally, I tried recording directly to MP4 rather .TS, but found out that there is another major, undocumented problem with MP4, namely that Hauppauge Capture, when set to record to MP4 records in variable framerate. Thus, instead of getting a fixed 29.97 fps, the frame rate speeds up and slows down, resulting in a weird average rate (e.g., 29.82). The resulting file cannot be reliably edited, and results in horrible-looking video. I understand the need for variable framerate for streaming, but I don't see how it should ever be used for hard drive capture.

So, at the moment, I am dead in the water with my new 1512.

[Bjs]

Might help if we knew some specs about your pc

Try passing the files via tsmuxer, output as new file ... it appears from their forum the included ts muxer is not to spec and can cause issues.

[DB83]

I try to recall but does not the capture program, assume it is still Win2000, have an option to transpose the recording to plain Mpeg2 ?

Why do you need .ts ?

[johnmeyer]

Might help if we knew some specs about your pc

Try passing the files via tsmuxer, output as new file ... it appears from their forum the included ts muxer is not to spec and can cause issues.

It is a Lenovo T430 laptop with Window 7 64-bit. It is the fastest T430 Lenovo makes, with an Intel i7 processor. My hardware is not the problem, I am quite sure, especially since the 1512 is an external capture device which only uses USB 2.0. A fast PC is not a requirement.

I've already tried tsmuxer, and it did not help. VideoRedo has fixed some of the captures, but for some reason it doesn't work on all of them.

Of course, if Hauppauge software engineers were competent, and if their product manager cared enough to force these problems to be fixed (after 2+ years !!) none of us would have to do these things.

I try to recall but does not the capture program, assume it is still Win2000, have an option to transpose the recording to plain Mpeg2 ?

Why do you need .ts ?

The capture options are MP4, .TS, and .M2TS. As I already noted MP4 cannot be used because it is apparently hard-wired to produce useless variable frame rate video. The differences between .TS and .M2TS are minor, but .TS is directly compatible with my TV set, so for short captures I can just dump it onto a thumb drive and play from that.

Since posting, I've tried capturing to the local drive, and that made zero difference. I'm now experimenting with CBR instead of VBR, and also capturing the show in segments.

This is really painful, and I am working on coming up with curse words that rhyme with "Hauppauge."

[DB83]

Can you post a mediainfo report of one of those troublesome .ts files.

With respect, you may be misguided about .ts even if it is compatable with your tv. It is not really an easily editable format. Well I do not think it is.

Have you tried TSDoctor ?

[johnmeyer]

Can you post a mediainfo report of one of those troublesome .ts files.

With respect, you may be misguided about .ts even if it is compatable with your tv. It is not really an easily editable format. Well I do not think it is.

Have you tried TSDoctor ?

First of all, I am quite familiar with .TS and many other formats. It is not less "editable" than the similar AVCHD format used by most modern camcorders. What's more, with some (but not all) of the .TS captures from this lousy Hauppauge "capture" software, I can put them through VideoRedo's "Quickstream Fix" and after it fixes several thousand errors, the file can be put into any of my normal programs and edited as usual. So, the problem most definitely is NOT with the .TS format.

As for TS-Doctor, I already mentioned using Quickstream Fix and TSMuxer. The point is, I should not have to use ANY of these programs, and the fact that I do points out, once again, that the problem is with the bad Hauppauge software.

Finally, here is the MediaInfo report for a really long capture. And no, those negative numbers for bitrate and duration are not "typos." I copy/pasted this directly from the text file saved from MediaInfo. As you can see, the header for the file is completely hosed, as are the headers for the other files.

Hauppauge's software is simply broken. Unless they can fix it, I'll have to leave a really scathing review on Amazon, where I purchased it.

General
ID                               : 0 (0x0)
Complete name                    : E:\Music Videos\HD Rose Bowl\2013 rose bowl 2.ts
Format                           : MPEG-TS
File size                        : 18.3 GiB
Duration                         : -16s 491ms
Overall bit rate                 : -9547640984

Video
ID                               : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 3 frames
Codec ID                         : 27
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate                       : 29.970 fps
Standard                         : Component
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Interlaced
Scan order                       : Top Field First
Color primaries                  : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics         : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients              : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

[DB83]

Ok. I'll stand back after this post.

I just wonder if the capture is intended to be used in Hauppuage's own software or there is something in the capture suite to make it 'compatable'.

The transpose I mentioned refered to an earlier product. I did not appreciate that this was HD or even AVC.

I have used these products - not the one you have - myself. Generally, they are better than many out there. I am surprised if they indeed have a rogue product.

[hech54]

I love my Hauppauge "stuff"....though mine only do SD, MPEG2.

[johnmeyer]

Well, it sounds like many have other Hauppauge products. FWIW, here is the MediInfo form my fifth attempt to capture a 1.5 hour program. Note that it shows no audio, and yet there IS audio, and I can hear and play it in VLC. Also, there is only one video stream. However, once again, the file will not open in most other apps. Quickstream Fix, by itself, is not able to completely fix the problem (this report is before the Quickstream fix, i.e., the original captured file):

General
ID                               : 0 (0x0)
Complete name                    : E:\Music Videos\HD Rose Bowl\Lampoon (again).ts
Format                           : MPEG-TS
File size                        : 10.2 GiB
Duration                         : 1h 36mn
Overall bit rate                 : 15.2 Mbps

Video #1
ID                               : 4113 (0x1011)-224 (0xE0)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP             : M=1, N=48
Codec ID                         : 27
Duration                         : 1h 36mn
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate                       : 29.970 fps
Standard                         : Component
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Interlaced
Scan order                       : Top Field First
Color primaries                  : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics         : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients              : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Video #2
ID                               : 4113 (0x1011)-226 (0xE2)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 3 frames
Duration                         : 1h 36mn
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate                       : 29.970 fps
Standard                         : Component
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Color primaries                  : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics         : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients              : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

[usually_quiet]

You probably did all this but I'll cover the bases just in case... Are you using the latest version of Hauppauge Capture and the latest firmware and drivers for the HD-PVR 1512? If so did you follow the recommended installation procedure when updating the drivers? http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_hdpvr2.html

Have you tried power-cycling the HD-PVR 1512? (Disconnect the power supply and disconnect USB for a few minutes, then reconnect)

[johnmeyer]

You probably did all this but I'll cover the bases just in case... Are you using the latest version of Hauppauge Capture and the latest firmware and drivers for the HD-PVR 1512? If so did you follow the recommended installation procedure when updating the drivers? http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_hdpvr2.html

Have you tried power-cycling the HD-PVR 1512? (Disconnect the power supply and disconnect USB for a few minutes, then reconnect)

Yes, as I said in the third sentence of my original post: "I have the latest (December 2015) drivers and updates." Just to be clear, here is the download page:

Hauppauge Capture version 33352

I have done the power cycling procedure many times because often there is no audio coming through the laptop speakers. I think this has something to do with the way the optical audio is recognized. I haven't yet figured out the correct series of magic incantations, but after power cycling, quitting and restarting the capture app, switching the video to HDMI and then back to component and the audio to analog and then back to optical, and finally (sometimes) re-booting the PC, the audio will come back and the video will look OK.

Over at the AVS Forum I've read the entire 1512 owners thread (hundreds of posts), and have a pretty good idea of the problems (LOTS of them) that people have been struggling with. This problem (corrupted files with long captures) has been reported there, as has the problem with MP4 captures defaulting to variable frame rate rather than constant 29.97 frame rate, thus eliminating MP4 as a useful capture option.

But that's another problem for another time.

[DB83]

Just a thought.

I read that Driver Page and the new driver is meant to fix issues with high bitrate.

Have you tried capturing with a constant bitrate or even a lower bitrate ?

I also looked at the manual. The only direct format export from .ts I see is to .mp4. Have you atleast tried that ?

[usually_quiet]

You probably did all this but I'll cover the bases just in case... Are you using the latest version of Hauppauge Capture and the latest firmware and drivers for the HD-PVR 1512? If so did you follow the recommended installation procedure when updating the drivers? http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_hdpvr2.html

Have you tried power-cycling the HD-PVR 1512? (Disconnect the power supply and disconnect USB for a few minutes, then reconnect)

Yes, as I said in the third sentence of my original post: "I have the latest (December 2015) drivers and updates." Just to be clear, here is the download page:

Hauppauge Capture version 33352

I have done the power cycling procedure many times because often there is no audio coming through the laptop speakers. I think this has something to do with the way the optical audio is recognized. I haven't yet figured out the correct series of magic incantations, but after power cycling, quitting and restarting the capture app, switching the video to HDMI and then back to component and the audio to analog and then back to optical, and finally (sometimes) re-booting the PC, the audio will come back and the video will look OK.

Over at the AVS Forum I've read the entire 1512 owners thread (hundreds of posts), and have a pretty good idea of the problems (LOTS of them) that people have been struggling with. This problem (corrupted files with long captures) has been reported there, as has the problem with MP4 captures defaulting to variable frame rate rather than constant 29.97 frame rate, thus eliminating MP4 as a useful capture option.

But that's another problem for another time.

Sorry. I managed to forget what you said about the drivers. Does analog audio capture to 2-channel AAC audio work any better?

[johnmeyer]

I read that Driver Page and the new driver is meant to fix issues with high bitrate. Have you tried capturing with a constant bitrate or even a lower bitrate ?

I also looked at the manual. The only direct format export from .ts I see is to .mp4. Have you at least tried that?

Yes, I switched to constant bitrate yesterday and it makes no difference. As for MP4, I addressed that in my initial post: "Finally, I tried recording directly to MP4 rather .TS, but found out that there is another major, undocumented problem with MP4, namely that Hauppauge Capture, when set to record to MP4 records in variable framerate.

Sorry. I managed to forget what you said about the drivers. Does analog audio capture to 2-channel AAC audio work any better?

When I initially set up the 1512 a week ago, I used analog connections, but as soon as I got my new Toslink cable, I disconnected those cables and haven't gone back. However, I just found out a few minutes ago that the encoder is switching between AC-3 stereo and AC-3 5.1. When it does this, it creates some sort of glitch in the captured file, and that glitch is one of the things that causes so many problems for most editing applications. There does not seem to be a way to "lock" the capture application into 5.1.

This bug is not the only reason for my problems, but it is certainly one of them. For the simple 90 minute capture that has take up a good portion of the last 24 hour of my life, the only workaround I have is to let VideoRedo re-encode the portion of the video where this switch happens, and import into my NLE the resulting WMV file. (WMV is the only format that VideoRedo seems to be able to create that is also compatible with my editing programs.) The WMV is stereo, but I can fake out the 5.1 for this one-minute section without much problem.

So, I know one of the problems. Now it will be up to Hauppauge to see if they are interested in responding to me (no word from them yet) and fixing the problem. I'm uploading a 400 MB example to Dropbox and hopefully they will be interested in looking at it.

[Brad]

However, I just found out a few minutes ago that the encoder is switching between AC-3 stereo and AC-3 5.1. When it does this, it creates some sort of glitch in the captured file, and that glitch is one of the things that causes so many problems for most editing applications. There does not seem to be a way to "lock" the capture application into 5.1.

For what it's worth, this likely isn't a Hauppauge fault. The unit doesn't contain an AC3 encoder; it simply records the bitstream being input.

The broadcasters themselves frequently switch between 2.0 and 5.1 on-the-fly based on the content of their sources. This causes issues for people recording direct transport streams too (ATSC/DVB tuners, cable box Firewire, CableCARD). It's just how it is.

I think the only way for Hauppauge to lock the audio format to 5.1 would be to mute it whenever the broadcaster sends stereo. Even that would require encoding silent AC3 packets.

[DB83]

No. I read your initial comments about RECORDING in mp4. The latter suggestion is CONVERSION as outlined in the manual.

Could you post the link to that 400 meg file here (or even PM it). I for one would be interested.

You may wish to discount the next remark since this will be unique to you (unless everyone uses the self-same setup). Would I be correct that the recording is not 'live' but comes from an existing recording on your DVR ? Could there be some copy-protection in that original recording which is doing the screwing i.e. it is the DVR that sends out the audio switch. After all many DVRs record in a proprietory format which is only understood by the box.

Have you attempted a live recording ie one that has not been saved in the DVR ?

[johnmeyer]

For what it's worth, this likely isn't a Hauppauge fault. The unit doesn't contain an AC3 encoder; it simply records the bitstream being input.

The broadcasters themselves frequently switch between 2.0 and 5.1 on-the-fly based on the content of their sources. This causes issues for people recording direct transport streams too (ATSC/DVB tuners, cable box Firewire, CableCARD). It's just how it is.

I think the only way for Hauppauge to lock the audio format to 5.1 would be to mute it whenever the broadcaster sends stereo.

It may be true that the capture app simply records the bits coming in through the optical connection, and as the audio switches between stereo and 5.1, those bits change. However, the resulting file should not be corrupted as a result of this switch. In addition, I'm pretty sure it is possible to have a capture app hard-wired for 5.1, and then when a stereo stream is detected, the center, rear, and LFE channels are simply set to zero level.

This is actually extremely important, because as I'm sure most of you know, commercials and program material are completely different, and I suspect that switching between stereo and 5.1 is extremely common. So, for capturing OTA, either live or via DVR, it is pretty much mandatory that the capture application be designed to gracefully handle this situation.

[usually_quiet]

Sorry. I managed to forget what you said about the drivers. Does analog audio capture to 2-channel AAC audio work any better?

When I initially set up the 1512 a week ago, I used analog connections, but as soon as I got my new Toslink cable, I disconnected those cables and haven't gone back.

Not that I blame you for wanting 5.1 AC3 audio, but if it is so problematic for some of the recordings that you want to re-capture with the HD-PVR 1512, you might have better luck by recording 2 channel AAC audio from the analog connections.

[badyu17]

I remember when I recorded some OTA broadcast that had audio switch at the beginning of the event that I had big problems editing that file in VideoReDo. The only thing that I could do was to actually locate the place where the switch occurs and cut that first problematic part and only keep the part with 5.1. Even that wasn't exactly easy because VRD would crash when you navigate to that exact place in a file.

[JoeS99]

I've been using the 1512 PVR-2 for a couple years. When I first started, I thought I was having a problem with the PVR-2 detecting 2.0 audio when I hit "Record" and not switching to 5.1 . Someone here told me to use VLC Player to check what the audio was at certain points in the file. The file was fine. It turned out that the media player I was using at the time (an older WDTV) set itself to 2.0 playback if the beginning of the file was in 2.0. It never switched to 5.1 (The newer WDTV model does). Anyway, I recorded a short length of blank black silent 5.1 audio leader that I can add to the beginning of the file so the playback device "sees" 5.1 audio.

The OP seems to be having other problems, maybe losing video sync which might cause corrupt files. He's using component inputs where I use HDMI.

[Brad]

However, the resulting file should not be corrupted as a result of this switch.

I agree that this shouldn't cause things like MediaInfo reporting 2 video tracks.

In addition, I'm pretty sure it is possible to have a capture app hard-wired for 5.1, and then when a stereo stream is detected, the center, rear, and LFE channels are simply set to zero level.

How would you do that without re-encoding the stereo stream to "upconvert" it with empty channels?

[johnmeyer]

I remember when I recorded some OTA broadcast that had audio switch at the beginning of the event that I had big problems editing that file in VideoReDo. The only thing that I could do was to actually locate the place where the switch occurs and cut that first problematic part and only keep the part with 5.1. Even that wasn't exactly easy because VRD would crash when you navigate to that exact place in a file.

That's exactly what I was forced to do today in order to get on with life.

[Bjs]

I'm using the Hauppauge Capture application with my new 1512 PVR. I am using default settings, with the encoding set to Variable at full bitrate (14 Mbps). I am recording using the .TS setting. I am recording to my main editing computer via a hardwired network connection over a 1 Gbps network with no other users. I have the latest (December 2015) drivers and updates. I am capturing via Component from my Cisco ISB7500 DVR. The audio is captured via optical.

Interesting part

I am recording to my main editing computer via a hardwired network

And later

external capture device which only uses USB 2.0

This would mean your not directly capturing from the device's usb port to your pc ... yes

Then dump any network equipment between the two and repeat recording tests with direct connection between the Hauppauge 1512 and pc via usb.

This is more likely an issue of data packet corruption caused by network hardware.

[johnmeyer]

Then dump any network equipment between the two and repeat recording tests with direct connection between the Hauppauge 1512 and pc via usb.

This is more likely an issue of data packet corruption caused by network hardware.

Yes, even though it is extremely unlikely, given the relatively low data rates, I too thought capturing to a network drive could be the cause, and even though it had a very remote chance of fixing things, I did the same 2+ hour capture directly to the PC's hard drive, with nothing going over the network.

It made zero difference.

Just in case people haven't read all the other things said so far, I also did the capture using constant instead of variable bitrate, and that too made no difference: the problem was still there. Also, I have captured almost a dozen different TV programs of various lengths (or at least attempted to capture them), and once I exceed a certain amount of capture duration (I haven't been able to determine if there is a specific file size or time that triggers the problem), the capture is screwed up.

Bottom line: the Hauppauge capture application fails with long captures. I also had this problem before I switch to using the optical input. The one thing I have not yet tried is using HDMI. In my setup, that will only work for capturing from the XBox, something I don't currently have the need to do. The HDMI output from my PVR, like most PVRs, is "uncapturable" by design, so I have to use component.

Oh yes, I did briefly install the Capture4Me application, but it is limited to short-duration captures, so of course it captured without any errors. I have no problem spending money to buy this program if it would fix the issues I've presented, but a brief look at it makes me pretty certain that it is simply a different skin on the same underlying capture plumbing. What I mean by that is that they are almost certainly using the Hauppauge drivers (I'm sure they didn't write their own), and that even the capture itself is probably mostly (entirely?) using the Hauppauge code. Therefore, unless someone else can tell me that they solved their capture problems by using this application, I am reluctant to spend money buying the full-fledge program.

[DB83]

^^ I did read one comment, in another thread in this forum, that the guy was experiencing over-heating when the unit was active on lengthy captures. And that did screw up the capture file.

Possible ?

He solved it by putting the unit on its side so that the bottom grill did not over-heat.

The comment is one of the threads you can read directly below this reply. Forget which one now.

[Cauptain]

johnmeyer give a link file.

I have some problems with some TS records on Avermedia C985.



Claudio

[JoeS99]

The HDMI output from my PVR, like most PVRs, is "uncapturable" by design, so I have to use component.

.

Well, not if you use the right HDMI Splitter.

[Bjs]

Later network devices generally have settings related to media ... ie, it can promote media deliver services above all others and from recall mine also includes data package settings.

Looks like you might have to try the hdmi split route.

Original overheating issue may have come back to haunt the device ... if after trying all other routes it be time to move onto another device.

[johnmeyer]

Later network devices generally have settings related to media ... ie, it can promote media deliver services above all others and from recall mine also includes data package settings.

Looks like you might have to try the hdmi split route.

Original overheating issue may have come back to haunt the device ... if after trying all other routes it be time to move onto another device.

Anything is possible, but the device is barely warm to the touch.

...

After I wrote that sentence, I went downstairs to where the 1512 is one hour into a 4th attempt at capturing the 100 minute "National Lampoon" documentary. I pointed my infrared thermometer at the case and got a reading of 95F degrees. This is nothing. Therefore, the unit is clearly NOT overheating.

Also, the various problems I describe don't, in any way, "feel" like an overheating issue. When hardware overheats, one usually gets huge corruption, or blank segments, lasting seconds. In this case, there is no visual corruption, once the files are corrected (when they can be corrected). On some of the bad files, VLC CAN play still play them. For those of you who overclock video cards and CPUs, you know what it is like when max temp is reached. It is not subtle.

The problem feels much more like lousy software, something that has plauged the graphics card industry -- including capture devices -- for the past twenty years. The problems I am having have to do with headers (hence the weird MediaInfo reports); with AC-3 stereo to 5.1 changes in program material (which, since I last posted, I find IS usually handled correctly -- see below); and all sorts of packet weirdness that requires the VideoRedo "Quickstream Fix" before almost any application (including VideoRedo itself) can do anything with the video.

It is this last issue (the need for "QuickStream Fix") that is at the core of the problem.

johnmeyer give a link file. I have some problems with some TS records on Avermedia C985.

Good idea. I was going to post the file that I uploaded to Dropbox, prior to sending to Hauppauge. However, I just realized this long clip is the beginning of the Showtime documentary on National Lampoon and, while incredibly funny (to me), it is also raunchy and filthy, and I probably shouldn't post it. I'll see if I can come up with another problem file that has content that isn't quite so controversial.

BTW, today -- after two days of jumping through all sorts of hoops -- I was finally able to get a 3.5 hour football game capture into both VideoRedo and into Sony Vegas Pro (two days it took me to get to this point!!). In Vegas, I was able to create a 5.1 audio setup, so I could see each channel. What I found is just what I was hoping to find (i.e., good news) namely that during the commercials, the capture application stayed in 5.1 mode, even when the commercial was in stereo. The center, rear, and LFE channels simply went to zero. So, it IS capable, under some circumstances, of doing the right thing.

[Brad]

What I found is just what I was hoping to find (i.e., good news) namely that during the commercials, the capture application stayed in 5.1 mode, even when the commercial was in stereo. The center, rear, and LFE channels simply went to zero. So, it IS capable, under some circumstances, of doing the right thing.

I would posit that this is the way the network feed of this particular content was distributed. Unless you have another capture of the same recording that does switch stream properties instead of staying in 5.1 with empty channels.